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Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:20 am
  

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What are the best & worst heroes (specific or general) for sustained, large scale battles? We're talking Alien invasions and such...where your outnumbered, need to be able to survive (and preferably prosper) a standup fight for an extended period of time against unknown, varied enemies.

A reliance on bullets/ISP/etc is going to put most heroes on my worst list. Without using megaheroes.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:50 am
  

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Infiltrator with a thousand faces?

Off the top of my head, you could do something like Invulnerability plus Animal Metamorphosis (All) plus Transfer/Possess: just keep varying the appearance you lie low as, in between doing hit-and-run attacks, and go live underwater for as long as you please; and, sure, play bulletproof flying strongman whenever it makes sense, but if your latest guise lets you get the drop on an enemy you can then feel free to maybe attack other enemies while wearing his body. You get the idea.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:22 pm
  

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Location: "The Guides to the Megaverse(tm)" Podcast
Comment: "Setting the Stage" - Rifter 79
"Hitting the Streets" - Rifter 81
"Hitting the Gym" - Rifter 82
G wrote:
What are the best & worst heroes (specific or general) for sustained, large scale battles? We're talking Alien invasions and such...where your outnumbered, need to be able to survive (and preferably prosper) a standup fight for an extended period of time against unknown, varied enemies.

A reliance on bullets/ISP/etc is going to put most heroes on my worst list. Without using megaheroes.



Even with my rewrites of them, the special training category of heroes aren't cut out for these sorts of conflicts. Psychics without Super/ior TK will run out of juice quickly, and not many abilities cover a ton of ground.

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"Saving the World", and "On the Hunt" - Rifter 83
and lastly, my baby, my long term project... The Dark City of Cascade - Rifter 84.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:26 pm
  

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Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Honestly if you are looking to do "long scale fighting" with out resources...
You are going to have to pick something that is all super powers.

If your looking for a really top of the line hero for fighting off hordes of invading aliens to save the world... and amazing combination is Karmic Power + Invulnerability + APS/ME of some sort
1) You use the APS/ME for your combat power. These powers offer attack abilities, stat enhancements, movements, crowd control, debuffs, walls, weapons, and more depending on which one you pick
2) Invulnerability makes you virtually impossible for the aliens to hurt.
3) And lastly Karmic power makes the nAR that virtually every APS/ME provides obscenely effective against anything they have that can hurt you by negating any bonuses your foes have to straight rolls only.
:lol:

It only works if your doing Good Things for Noble Causes...
...but fortunately Saving The World generally qualifies :lol:

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The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


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Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:24 pm
  

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The minor Healing Factor is a nice touch. It obviously lets you heal faster, but also gives you that "never fatigue" ability, so you can always go for another round. Nice for a minor.


While not that great in a straight up fight the problem solving ability of the geniuses, super sleuth and so on can be helpful over the long term

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Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:20 pm
  

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RockJock wrote:
The minor Healing Factor is a nice touch. It obviously lets you heal faster, but also gives you that "never fatigue" ability, so you can always go for another round. Nice for a minor.


While not that great in a straight up fight the problem solving ability of the geniuses, super sleuth and so on can be helpful over the long term

Would make a great "quarterback" for Eliakon's Karma Tank.

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Hey, you came up with a novel, attention-getting idea, you did the legwork, you worked it through, you made it fit the setting, even though initial thought might be 'nah, it can't work, it's too silly/stupid/lame', and you posted something that only required a little adjustment, yet can be added to, without diluting its original concept. How can we not give you due support and credit?


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Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:54 pm
  

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Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
Super Invention. Weather Control Device. Being able to create Tornados and hurricanes at will is pretty good for messing with large armies.

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Unread postPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 11:49 am
  

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zerombr wrote:
G wrote:
What are the best & worst heroes (specific or general) for sustained, large scale battles? We're talking Alien invasions and such...where your outnumbered, need to be able to survive (and preferably prosper) a standup fight for an extended period of time against unknown, varied enemies.

A reliance on bullets/ISP/etc is going to put most heroes on my worst list. Without using megaheroes.



Even with my rewrites of them, the special training category of heroes aren't cut out for these sorts of conflicts. Psychics without Super/ior TK will run out of juice quickly, and not many abilities cover a ton of ground.


You could maybe manage it with a martial art from N&SS, which lists the skill-pricing options for Special Training guys: I’m thinking kung-fu tricks of the “no chance that the character will be detected while hiding” type, using a “stay motionless for hours, or even days” perk in between stealthing around “automatically, without needing to roll the dice” for hit-and-run stuff (by playing trapster, when possible, so as to not still be in the area during the attack; but, sure, surreptitiously hit a target with something else if you can then automatically succeed at melting into a crowd or whatever).


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Unread postPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 2:44 pm
  

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Since not all Immortals are Mega-heroes, an Iron Immortal Golem who originated on earth and is over 400 years old (for those sweet, sweet extra skill programs) is an awesome choice for this situation, especially if there are no oceans nearby. There are lots of power options for Immortals. If you only get one major, take Karmic Power, because that Iron Golem has an nAR 16.

If you get two majors, 3 minors, you can take Invulnerability and Zombie Flesh, then take immune to radiation and you basically can't be harmed. You might be delayed, but not harmed. Add on Flight: Wingless and Energy Explusion: Energy and you are a mobile wrecking ball with supernatural strength (from being an Immortal Golem).

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Declared the ultimate authority on what is an error and what is not by Axelmania on 5.11.19.


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Unread postPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 11:17 pm
  

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Palladin

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Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
dreicunan wrote:
Since not all Immortals are Mega-heroes, an Iron Immortal Golem who originated on earth and is over 400 years old (for those sweet, sweet extra skill programs) is an awesome choice for this situation, especially if there are no oceans nearby. There are lots of power options for Immortals. If you only get one major, take Karmic Power, because that Iron Golem has an nAR 16.

If you get two majors, 3 minors, you can take Invulnerability and Zombie Flesh, then take immune to radiation and you basically can't be harmed. You might be delayed, but not harmed. Add on Flight: Wingless and Energy Explusion: Energy and you are a mobile wrecking ball with supernatural strength (from being an Immortal Golem).

The entire power category is mega.
It's right there in the name

Immortals
optional Mega Heroes

then we get 1 The Nature of the Immortal (Mega-Heroes)

They are all Mega-Heroes
Just not all of them get the entire perk package deal.

_________________
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


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Unread postPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 12:33 am
  

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eliakon wrote:
dreicunan wrote:
Since not all Immortals are Mega-heroes, an Iron Immortal Golem who originated on earth and is over 400 years old (for those sweet, sweet extra skill programs) is an awesome choice for this situation, especially if there are no oceans nearby. There are lots of power options for Immortals. If you only get one major, take Karmic Power, because that Iron Golem has an nAR 16.

If you get two majors, 3 minors, you can take Invulnerability and Zombie Flesh, then take immune to radiation and you basically can't be harmed. You might be delayed, but not harmed. Add on Flight: Wingless and Energy Explusion: Energy and you are a mobile wrecking ball with supernatural strength (from being an Immortal Golem).

The entire power category is mega.
It's right there in the name

Immortals
optional Mega Heroes

then we get 1 The Nature of the Immortal (Mega-Heroes)

They are all Mega-Heroes
Just not all of them get the entire perk package deal.

That's not what my edition of powers unlimited 2 says. The name of the category is just "Immortals," and there is not a parenthetical Mega-Heroes after part 1's title.

In fact, it makes it clear on page 60 that a GM may limit the Immortals to those that aren't Mega-Heroes! It then clearly identifies the Immortals who are in their listing.

Mine is a first printing. Was there a stealth update?

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Axelmania wrote:
You of course, being the ultimate authority on what is an error and what is not.
Declared the ultimate authority on what is an error and what is not by Axelmania on 5.11.19.


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Unread postPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 2:43 pm
  

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dreicunan wrote:
eliakon wrote:
dreicunan wrote:
Since not all Immortals are Mega-heroes, an Iron Immortal Golem who originated on earth and is over 400 years old (for those sweet, sweet extra skill programs) is an awesome choice for this situation, especially if there are no oceans nearby. There are lots of power options for Immortals. If you only get one major, take Karmic Power, because that Iron Golem has an nAR 16.

If you get two majors, 3 minors, you can take Invulnerability and Zombie Flesh, then take immune to radiation and you basically can't be harmed. You might be delayed, but not harmed. Add on Flight: Wingless and Energy Explusion: Energy and you are a mobile wrecking ball with supernatural strength (from being an Immortal Golem).

The entire power category is mega.
It's right there in the name

Immortals
optional Mega Heroes

then we get 1 The Nature of the Immortal (Mega-Heroes)

They are all Mega-Heroes
Just not all of them get the entire perk package deal.

That's not what my edition of powers unlimited 2 says. The name of the category is just "Immortals," and there is not a parenthetical Mega-Heroes after part 1's title.

In fact, it makes it clear on page 60 that a GM may limit the Immortals to those that aren't Mega-Heroes! It then clearly identifies the Immortals who are in their listing.

Mine is a first printing. Was there a stealth update?

Seems so, because mine, like Eliakon's, says Megahero.

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taalismn wrote:
Hey, you came up with a novel, attention-getting idea, you did the legwork, you worked it through, you made it fit the setting, even though initial thought might be 'nah, it can't work, it's too silly/stupid/lame', and you posted something that only required a little adjustment, yet can be added to, without diluting its original concept. How can we not give you due support and credit?


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Unread postPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 4:52 pm
  

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Palladin

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Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Yeah the did a lot of rebalancing of PU2.
Besides changing the Eugenics Money chart for instance... all Immortals are now Mega-Heroes.

_________________
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


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Unread postPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 11:02 am
  

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eliakon wrote:
Yeah the did a lot of rebalancing of PU2.
Besides changing the Eugenics Money chart for instance... all Immortals are now Mega-Heroes.

Well, that explains the discrepancy, and also illustrates why I hate shadow updates! Especially since I'm betting that there isn't an errata sheet with all the changes included.

_________________
Axelmania wrote:
You of course, being the ultimate authority on what is an error and what is not.
Declared the ultimate authority on what is an error and what is not by Axelmania on 5.11.19.


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Unread postPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 9:37 pm
  

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Palladin

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Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
dreicunan wrote:
eliakon wrote:
Yeah the did a lot of rebalancing of PU2.
Besides changing the Eugenics Money chart for instance... all Immortals are now Mega-Heroes.

Well, that explains the discrepancy, and also illustrates why I hate shadow updates! Especially since I'm betting that there isn't an errata sheet with all the changes included.

What is this "errata" of which you speak?

_________________
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


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Unread postPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 10:39 am
  

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Comment: Non Impediti Ratione Cogitationis
There's a reason why I put together the Price changes for the Eugenic's category and posted it here myself.


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Unread postPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 1:21 am
  

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What got me thinking about this was watching the most recent epic battle movie #25, and thinking in the climactic alien invasion, which so often comic book heroes have had to face, and unusually, they do it head on in the movie. Normally comic heroes think their way out of a sitation, get an ally/enemy, its more of a 1 person can make a difference idea. So I find myself watching and thinking, that out of the 2000 or so heroes in the battle, 99% aren't going to survive, and its possible my characters wouldn't either. Which led me to ask the question, which non megaheroes are going to survive?

Any star faring hero could gain a galactic ally turn one evil against another,and ...there is usually someone more powerful, even if thats a demon horde.But thats getting off topic!
Playing a possessing entity (or a mage controlling one or more), you can turn the more powerful villans against the masses.
A very lucky hero, might do a lot of good, without any other powers. Perhaps they need to be 3 times as lucky as the next hero.
Time travel is an option...but everyone is already using that.
A transferred intelligence hero could have multiple bodies, I suppose any robot hero could have ots of drones etc.
A hardware character could have many tactics, but likely, things like weather sayelites are going to last only a short period of time, as the enemy could shoot them down quickly.

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Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. - Yoda
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Last edited by G on Thu May 16, 2019 1:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 2:15 pm
  

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Knight

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Comment: Non Impediti Ratione Cogitationis
Well tactics are also going to matter, a lot of the time you see people wading into battles but a less powerful character should consider things like attacking on the flank, or staying with a stronger/bigger hero and guard their back and scream bloody murder if you're going to get into combat with another big bad as opposed to the grunt forces, or even the classic 'advancing in reverse' and pulling back when you think somethings to powerful. Stuff like that can help you stay alive when you're not Superman.


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Unread postPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 5:33 pm
  

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G wrote:
99% aren't going to survive, and its possible my characters wouldn't either. Which led me to ask the question, which non megaheroes are going to survive?


One with Mimic?


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Unread postPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 1:33 am
  

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Knight

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All the Archer type heroes will survive.....They always do. Heck, give everyone, Mega Immortals all the way down bows and arrows and the invaders will ignore them all.

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Last edited by RockJock on Mon May 13, 2019 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 4:25 pm
  

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Knight

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Comment: Non Impediti Ratione Cogitationis
Yeah, I had a character try to pull a Legolas with a giant mount and he died when he flubbed a dodge roll and got stepped on by several tons of running War Dinosaur.


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Unread postPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 2:10 am
  

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Regularguy wrote:
G wrote:
99% aren't going to survive, and its possible my characters wouldn't either. Which led me to ask the question, which non megaheroes are going to survive?


One with Mimic?


True. My shifter mouse would do very well..possibly the best of all my characters. My mutant human technoform would likewise make a good show, and APS lightguy would be ok.

My Brutally strong feral turtle (NAR16) commando (autododge), who uses a tricked out bow and rides a flying ant would eventually fall...as would alien plant with Control plants. Some of my others wouldn't do so well: ancient master, analytical genius...the list goes on. Bionics, Hardware, Robots and pilots would all likly not last the onslaught.

How would your list of characters fare?

_________________
The Leynet - The place for TW inventions & hosting RIFTS Fiction
Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. - Yoda
All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others - Animal Farm.


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Unread postPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 4:17 pm
  

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Knight

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The non powered types need safe houses and bolt holes to hide, rest and rearm.

On a side note, I had an archer type character years ago with high tech friends who used an "arrow maker" to rearm quickly. It was stolen from some comic I can't recall, but basically concentrated airborne particulates to manufacture a few basic arrows an hour to resupply in the field. Might come in handy for something like this.

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Unread postPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 8:22 pm
  

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G wrote:
Regularguy wrote:
G wrote:
99% aren't going to survive, and its possible my characters wouldn't either. Which led me to ask the question, which non megaheroes are going to survive?


One with Mimic?


True. My shifter mouse would do very well..possibly the best of all my characters. My mutant human technoform would likewise make a good show, and APS lightguy would be ok.

My Brutally strong feral turtle (NAR16) commando (autododge), who uses a tricked out bow and rides a flying ant would eventually fall...as would alien plant with Control plants. Some of my others wouldn't do so well: ancient master, analytical genius...the list goes on. Bionics, Hardware, Robots and pilots would all likly not last the onslaught.

How would your list of characters fare?


The one with Invulnerability is in kind of a weird place: if he’s up against something unusual that bypasses his powers, he’s obviously in trouble unless his ‘mentalist’ tricks prove useful or whatever; but so long as it’s conventional attacks, yeah, he’ll presumably be just fine even if it keeps going and going and going.

And, as it happens, the Clairvoyant with Gateways and Sixth Sense is pretty much built to do his best until he gets warned that (a) his best won’t be good enough, and (b) he should get the heck out of there now, maybe take a little break before trying again later. So, something about fighting and running away and living to fight another day...


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