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Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:47 pm
  

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Explorer

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:25 pm
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ive got two players making claims on how the powers work for two characters they've made and im not sure whether to agree or not so i'd like opinions.

one guy has multiple selves and dimension door.now ive already ruled that the extra selves open their individual dimension doors into the same dimensional room.i thought that was reasonable.but how do i handle that.my player wants to be able to use it as a dimensional hub.opening a door with two separate selves and exiting through eachothers doors,effectively teleporting from one place to another.id rather it works that you can only exit through the door you enter through,but i have two other players agreeing with the first player.thoughts?
secondly,another player has teleportation,advanced sight and x-ray vision,wanting to combine visions,enabling him to see inside buildings at a distance,side stepping the visual tageting/familiarity with location restriction on teleportation...again,thoughts? theres no real reason you cant combine the two vision powers,but it doesnt feel right to me.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:01 pm
  

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Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:16 pm
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Location: Rifts Denmark
Comment: 44 years in denver, but now in grand rapids.
It does make sense that all the multiple beings open a door to the same room based on the idea that at the end of the day they're all the same person... sharing a room makes sense. On the other hand...

I think dimensional room and multiple beings have good bits built in to keep things relatively contained in that multiple beings is one per 2 levels and dimensional room limits persons in the room to the character and one other person per 2 levels... Gonna take a pretty high level dude to be able to shuffle 3 more party members around in the first place... I'd even *consider* counting a copy of himself as 'one of the extra persons inside the dimensional room.

If I were trying to stop these antics I'd stick with the concept of 'once you leave the room, all others are ejected, which might include your copies as they could be considered 'others' who did not create the door, but personally I'm not sure I'd personally bother. I agree with the other players that as long as you're abiding by the rooms limitation of one other person per 2 levels being able to be in the room at a time, there shouldnt be a problem. In order to have a door open for them to step out of where they like, a copy has to have arrived at that location in the first place so no big deal.

While advanced sight has a range, xray vision does not, so I'm also ok with combining the use of long range visual acuity with xray penetration. Worst case scenario what... A 15th level character can study the inside your cabin from 15 miles away and then teleport in? Seems ok to me. There are plenty of other ways to infiltrate a place. Invisible plus intangible... Intangible plus shrink... Just plain old intangible... There are plenty of ways for characters to get where they're going. Intangible and Inhabitation... lol... I'm inside your house and now your house is ME!!!

The thing about running a supers campaign is that the power levels are gonna be pretty high, and the powers your players are choosing are their way of telling you what parts of they campaign they dont want to be a challenge. They're saying we wanna be able to get where we wanna go without having to fight our way there. There's tons of other things the players wont be able to cope with as easily and palladium's pretty good with making sure every character has plenty of weaknesses to challenge them. Teleporter shows up to a location that he's scouted with 2 guards... Seems safe... 2 guards turn out to be 'negate super powers and telepathy'... Suddenly your teleporter is the hostage and he's giving away the location of your home or your family or your boss's office or where you hide your dirty magazines.

You may even discover that letting them run with the powerset they've chosen will quickly lose its luster. At low levels it might not quite be enough to get the particulars of the job done. At higher levels it can... But on paper it sounds like a fun concept to have this team of teleporting xray ghost room infiltrators moving in and out of areas unchallenged, but how long will that remain fun... One of the troubles with a supers campaign is that sometimes the things the party does to make things easy quickly are discovered to make things too easy, then boring. Not necessarily though...

If this campaign is supposed to be about a team of infiltrator spies, they're well suited for their task. They might just want to spend the whole campaign curbstomping infiltration mission after infiltration mission for as long as it strikes their whim and then its on to the next thing.

My personal policy is usually to let them do their thing and the results will come out in the wash. Gaming is about the journey. If it turns out to be puttin the game on easy mode and making things boring for them, well how else will they learn to self regulate? On the other hand, they're not operating in a vacuum. Once they get a reputation for being badass infiltrators, some other super secret organization decides its time to go after them and now they're on the defensive, which perhaps they're not as well equipped to be.

TLDR? Let em give it a try. See what happens. Enjoy the journey. Learn what ya can and grow with it. Its just a different playstyle. Some people build characters to be super strong and smash their way through all their problems. Other folks set up characters so that they avoid direct confrontations at all costs.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:03 pm
  

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Explorer

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:25 pm
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you make good points,nothing i can or want to really argue with.my main issue was that they were just trying to circumvent certain character limitations,which often makes me frown,but isnt really an issue for a GM who is basically god.But as i'd already set some limitations,i wanted to see what others said,incase i was being too limiting on my players,to the detriment of their enjoyment.Palladium games is a new system for me and im not entirely sure what constitutes too powerful or unfair at the moment.But im getting a good idea.the game is set for RIFTS though,just thought a question on actual super powers was best answered here.
Thank you for the input.


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Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:36 pm
  

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Knight

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 2:01 am
Posts: 3698
Location: Nashville.....ish....
I don't have a problem with either setup. Were these power combinations rolled, or picked? If they were rolled I see the players being creative. If they were picked, they are a bit powerful, but that is off set by being a one trick pony.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:44 am
  

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Explorer

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:25 pm
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yeah they were picked.i think im bein given a trial by fire,through the medium of difficult characters.i certainly dont see many power combinations as one trick though.theres alot you can do with even a single power,if you think about its use.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:22 pm
  

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Palladin

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
Posts: 9478
Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
I would remind them of the gander rule.
What ever they come up with as "obvious legal uses of this power" anyone else can do as well.
Unless they are literally the only supers on the planet...

For the Dimensional Room... I would, personally, rule that you can only have one door open at a time.
And that you can not open a door into the room from a new location if a person is already inside it.

I would allow the hub trick IF the player also had a power like portals or something. Otherwise it is a dimensional room, not a dimensional teleport.

As for X-ray vision... I tend to be opinion that the power only works at limited range.
That said... it can only see through a limited amount of material.
If the wall is more than six inches thick then tough luck (and in a world with super powers I would be SHOCKED if secure locations and people who want privacy do not have 6.5 inch thick walls....)
(if you really want to be annoying I would point out that RAW that if you are looking through a wood wall from a mile away that will take 5281 rounds... or more than 22 hours of staring in space with out moving...)

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The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


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Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:13 am
  

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Explorer

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:25 pm
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lol yes,your comments eliakon,do fit more closely with my initial thoughts on how things should work.i tend to feel there are certain implied limitations on how things work,to prevent them being used as other powers or having in built limitations being circumvented.but players being players,in a system with such a high level of ambiguity,its not surprising that these abuses(in my opinion)happen so often...but im willing to roll with the punches at the moment.let people have their was for the most and see how long it lasts when they realize its not THAT fun to be so powerful.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:05 pm
  

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Palladin

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
Posts: 9478
Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
iteration27 wrote:
lol yes,your comments eliakon,do fit more closely with my initial thoughts on how things should work.i tend to feel there are certain implied limitations on how things work,to prevent them being used as other powers or having in built limitations being circumvented.but players being players,in a system with such a high level of ambiguity,its not surprising that these abuses(in my opinion)happen so often...but im willing to roll with the punches at the moment.let people have their was for the most and see how long it lasts when they realize its not THAT fun to be so powerful.

I would advise you to always remember the Gander Rule. "What is good for the goose is good for the gander"
This has helped me greatly in my role as a GM as it tends to cut down on the worst of the shenanigans via 'gentlemans agreements' that somethings are Simply Not Done. Thus no one abuses the CoA spell... because if they start abusing it, then I will have the other mages in the world start using the same tricks and tactics and the players tend to not be interested in games where their PCs face a real chance of OHK attacks.

_________________
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


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Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:12 pm
  

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Explorer

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:25 pm
Posts: 148
oh,yes,you did already mention the gander rule.as you call it lol i would definitely use their own tactics against them,cos its funny,no worries about that.but also just general power escalation has worked in the past.things usually only get so ridiculous,before its agreed things need to be dialled back.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:00 pm
  

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Knight

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 2:01 am
Posts: 3698
Location: Nashville.....ish....
I meant one trick pony in the sense that they are picking powers to make a certain trick, or idea work. For example, the X-Ray Vision, Advanced Sight, and Teleport were meant to stack together for a special, if limited outcome. If stacking is not allowed then a power like EE would be a more versatile pick with one of the visions.

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