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That is the problem with writing new skills:

*Usefulness---How useful is the skill? Does its benefits outweigh the penalties of wasting a skill slot on something that is hardly, or never going to be used?

*Feasibility---Is it physically or mentally possible to perform this skill? If physical, can a body really be made to (voluntarily_ do that? If mental, is it plausible that somebody could think like that or know that much about something?

*Distribution of the Skill---Is the skill likely to be of use to a broad section of people, or can it be exclusive only to one or two specific occupations? Is it better written up as a facet of an OCC?

*Difficulty----How much time and effort go into learning and practicing the skill? Can it be picked up so easily that anybody can acquire reasonable proficiency in a very short time? That might hinder it being regarded as a skill. For example: riding a tricycle or Big Wheel trike is a LOT easier than learning to balance on, and ride a bike. We don't have Pilot: Tricycle, but we have Pilot: Bicycle.
(However, it should be noted that with the popularity of recumbent adult tricycles, there might be something to a Pilot Tricycle skill...or, given the issues of stability and similarities of operation of the recumbent types, they might still better fall under the Bicycle skill)

*Inclusion----Does the skill require prerequisites that make it part of a package deal? Does it cover/Include aspects of other skills? Or can it itself be better included under the coverage of another skill? (For example, Rowing a boat could be considered a Physical skill, but the argument might be made that if it's done on dry land using a machine, the exercise might be better considered as being part of BodyBuilding). If it covers many aspects of a subject, can it be so conveniently wrapped up in one skill, or is it better or more plausibly covered by a combination of other skills?(For example: if I'm writing a Crisis Preparedness skill, I could argue that having a deep knowledge of the statistics of how much food, water, power, and medicine a given number of people need in an emergency, the figures for how many vehicles operating on what sort of a schedule would be needed to evacuate them, and the sorts of facilities I might want to preposition for emergency response, makes it plausible for being a skill. Somebody else might argue that such might be better covered taking Intelligence, Inventory Systems, Research, and some attendant Communications and management-related Technical skills).

There is also 'am I just making a duplicate skill?"

Just made a Zodiac Mage (for the PF RPG world) from R50. and it has the Astrology skill and the fortune telling skill. They detailed the FT skill in the class.
But the only Astrology skill I know of is in the MiO book. And when I read the Astrology skill there it was just like the FT skill from the ZM class.
Might as well add in Yarow stick counting from MC for 'duplicate' skills.

This was besides that the other new skill presented in the ZM class was Lore: zodiac, was presented w/o a skill %.
And the class mentions the performance skill which is not in the PF RPG game books. (Yes, I found it elsewhere. So no need to tell me it is in the regretful book.)

Yep, that sometimes happens, especially if the writer doesn't have all the books t research through, or figures 'hey, I'll use the fortune-telling stats, but it's using star charts instead of reading tea leaves! THat's sufficiently different, right?

That's where good editing and fact checking also come in handy(this astrology question kinda reminds me of one of the old 'Omen' movies where the plot McMuffin is dependent on STARS assuming a certain formation---unleashing supernatural mayhem on Earth. NOBODY seems to have bothered telling the writers that it is PLANETS that visibly shift position as in the movie, not stars...Ignoring basic modern cosmology and astronomy. If stars behaved like that, the whole world would be going gaga, not just the movie main characters. It rather illustrates how poor understanding of a subject and bad editing can utterly sink narrative)

I've been working on consolidating the skill system. I'd like to post the results of my efforts somewhere for the Palladium public to review and comment, but I can't post attachments here. What are my options?

For one, this isn't the place for that. If you want to do that, start your own thread. You will have to post a link or type it out. I don't think the forum has a way of doing attachments.

I agree it isn't easy to great new skills but I do think that you're over thinking some things here.



What one person considered useful another will consider the skill useless. It all depends on the person selecting the skill. For example, some could consider Model Making a useless skill. Yet there's those who've gone to have careers in TV and movies making models. So it is useful. The trick is using the skill in a game. Like having the CO have the character make a diorama to help plan a mission.




I think this is just over thought. There's always going to be someone who can do something or think of something others can't. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be a skill. It's like anyone can pick up a gun, not everyone can reload them much less take them apart and give them a thorough cleaning.




I do think some skills are going to be more rare than others for all kinds of reasons. I don't think that skills should be 100% exclusive though. I think almost anything can be learned though if the person has enough desire. Having a teacher would help even more.




Difficulty can depend on a lot of things. Usually on how long it takes to learn, usually represented by pre-requisites and low base percentages. For example it can take years to get a law degree but someone else can study law and be just as knowledgeable without the degree. There's also on the job training versus book learning.
As for Tricyles, there is a rule that lets characters try things. I wouldn't think a Tricycle would be that difficult. Riding a bike with a side car though or trailer would be more complicated though.




I don't think that overlap should be a reason not to have a skill. In your example the person trained in Crisis Preparedness can respond faster as its what they're trained in. That doesn't mean that others can't use multiple skills to do the same job. Conversely the Crisis person can try to do the other's job because of some of the overlap in training but because they're so focused on on thing they're not going to be able to do it as well.

There are skills with no definitions at all. I'm not even sure if there's a Study category or what the base percentages of the skills as I don't have the first edition books. At least this one has a definition and percentages.

I play Second Edition. The category is Scholar and Technical. But getting back to the issue, I like to think we are capable of making complete skills regardless of what has been allowed in the books.

To the contrary; it seems I didn't think this one thoroughly ENOUGH.
True, a person without arms can't be expected to be able to pick up a gun and fire it(though, I can picture a character using their feet, with GREAT difficulty, unless mitigated by some other advantage, like particularly dexterous feet, which should/would be noted in the character's stats...and firing the gun), and beings with especially long fingers might be able to dual fire guns in their hands, while giants might be able to pick up bazookas and use them like handguns.
And certain physiological conditions prevent people from being able to think certain things or perceive them, making their practice of some skills (like a blind person trying to paint solo) haphazard and extremely difficult at best.

There will be those species and those medical advancements and technological adaptations that will allow things to be done that a (normal/human)/In good health) person couldn't/can't do, but IMHO these are case-by-case, or species-specific, situation that fall outside the skill(s) involved
A blind person might paint with the assistance of cybernetic devices, or using paints that have different textures, or with the assistance of a friend guiding them. We don't need a specific 'Blind-Painting' skill.
A being able to do something with their hands normal humans can't do with their hands? That should be reflected in the being's stats/description.

Many things can be done with existing skills, but with the appropriate penalties applied to them, or modified by physiological or technological factors.

But if a skill is presented that in its description effectively gives absurd bonuses or advantages that step beyond plausibility and into superpower/paranormal territory need to looked at again and checked. A Technical skill like(off the top of my head) say, 'Stock Market Trading', might give you a practical understanding of financial markets, give you an edge over s less-studied day-trader,and might even give you some ideas for scamming the markets, but if the skill description said 'allows you to make lots of money playing the Stockmarket!' along with some absurdly high proficiency base(like 60% +10 % per level of experience), I'd discard it as a stinker. Unless you've got other skills or advantages, like Incredible Luck, Clairvoyance, or Gordon Gecko-levels of insider knowledge, you're going to be subject to market forces even with your Stock Market Trading skill. In the case of SMT, I'd assign a more realistic skill rating of 30%+5%.

I meant like Communications and Domestic. I've been working on a list of skills but I'm not sure where to put Study skills though. I figure they're like Lore skills so stuck them in the Technical Category.

I would hope we could make a complete list of skills. Although how complete is complete? I think I understood what the Holiday Skill was supposed to be.

For the most part that might be true, especially for someone who lost their arms. Then again there are people who use their feet just as well as others use their hands. And while its true some conditions might make it more difficult to use some skills those same conditions might also make them better at others. In cases like this I would think it'd be up to the GM. I might allow someone with only legs to have the Pilot Helicopters skill but I wouldn't let them practice that skill without a copilot as they'd need more than their feet to work all the controls.





I agree in part. I don't think we need a Blind-Painting skill. There's skill penalties and bonuses as well as stat bonuses/minus that can be applies. However, I do think there's a difference between someone who just paints, and someone who specializes in a specific medium. They can work in the others but the end results wouldn't be as nice.



I agree. In this case, the skill itself shouldn't be invalidated but the definition and percentage should be looked at.

Most of the skills here are collected in the Black Vault Wiki.

Thanks. I appreciate.

No problem.

I have seen it. It's pretty cool. I hope to include them eventually. Right now though I've been trying to go through all the books though to get a complete a list as possible. Rifter #0 missed a whole lot of skills, new skills have been added, and other books gone out of print so unique skills in them get lost. I'd love it if Palladium would release a Giant Book of Skills with conversion notes to use in different games.

I'd be all for that, though it would probably be good for only a couple of years, if the publishing schedule picks up again, before enough new skills came out to render it obsolete.

Yeah, although new editions could be updated with the new skills. PDF of course would be easier to do. Or every so often all the new skills could be gathered and published in a small book as an appendix or something. I'd originally hoped it could be in the Rifter as it could be reprinted easier but that isn't possible right now.


Thing is the concept could be expanded to magic, psionics and super powers.

A Big Book of Skills would be cool. There are already books focused on magic, so unless they do a Magic Unlimited with magic more geared towards Heroes Unlimited, not really interested in that.

That's what I mean. Besides that there's probably enough magic for another book it could include conversions to and from other games.

Lots of nice skills in the Black Vault. Is it okay to ask questions and make suggestions?

In regards to the Massage Skill. I don't understand the 1d4 PE. I would have thought it'd restore SDC. Or MDC if an MDC Character.

May I suggest;
As a secondary skill they practitioner can give a nice massage but they don't know all the details listed in the skill such as anatomy. A professional should get a bonus to reflect their training. They'd know anatomy, when not to give a massage as well as regulations and laws covering their practice. I would also remove the chiropractor part. There is some overlap chiropractic medicine requires a lot more training. The professional would also be trained in a few different techniques but not necessarily everything. I'd pick one as main focus and a couple secondary ones with a reduced bonus. If they want to learn other types they can select the skill again.

May I also suggest that the effects to the client be tied to the practitioner's skill percentage? Like 1 hour for ever 5% the practitioner has on a successful roll?

May I also suggest that Chiropractic Medicine be a separate skill? Here's a couple wiki pages on them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massage
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic


Dancing
I don't know why but I would think that regular dancing should give a +1 to PP and +1 to PE. I would also think that it would not only be a cultural skill but a physical one as well.

Body Art
The knowledge of various ways to decorate the body. Each type is a different skill. I would put the skill percentage at 25%-40% +5% per level depending on the type of art.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_art
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_modification

Dancing.....
In the Go Mental R19 article Dancing only gives a temp +1 MA with a successful roll, a temp +2 if the roll was 01-10% . And a temp -1 on a nat 100% roll.

Ballet and Marathon Dancing are their own skills with this article. With some physical skills like bonuses.

I regard PE points like a bank of endurance. Though it's not spelled out in RUE how long a person can go doing strenuous activity, except for running, I believe it used to be in the original edition that they indicated how long somebody could go without rest/engage in strenuous activity..
In my games, I had players, if they were doing things like running a marathon or pulling all-nighter-round-the-clockers, keep track of their P.E. points versus how much Time/distance they'd spent running/burning muscle(so hauling ass at top speed for a mile would eat up 6 P.E. points), and then how long it would take them to recover (note that this temporary drawing down of P.E. would not affect SDC/Hit Points or save bonuses, just how soon they could get back into the grind.

Sloppy, yes, and well into house rules territory, in retrospect, but I was trying to work around fatigue rates.
For that reason I don't see Massage as restoring SDC/MDC, since it's not regenerating damaged tissues, it's simply relaxing tension and taking the edge off fatigue, allowing a PC to go a little longer before they need proper rest to recharge their batteries. .

I did like the Anatomy bonus though, having heard enough horror stories about chiropractors accidentally doing damage to a patient..

Thanks. I just looked at them and I don't understand the MA bonus.

The other Dancing skills make sense but I would still think that Dancing would still give some bonuses. Not as much as those but some.

It's been a while but PE is endurance. How long one can do something depends on their PE. SDC/Hit Points/MDC is injury. If a character pushes their PE, PS or PP, they risk injury. That injury is reflected in decreased SDC/Hit Points/MDC. The injury could result in a lower PE, PS or PP. For example a person sprains their ankle. They suffer 6 SDC for it and lower PE, PS, and PP because they can't put their full weight on it.

Also Massage is more than just relaxation and tension relief. That's more like the secondary skill where someone's just giving a back rub. A real massage will aid in healing and even help prevent injury. Done badly though can actually cause injury or make the injury worse. That's why you have to take classes for it.




Anatomy bonus? I've heard some horror stories too. I've also seen some videos and there's no way I'd ever let someone do that to me. I do know though that Anatomy is a requirement for Massage. At least it was when I was taking classes. We'd learn one section of the body and then how to and how not to massage that part of the body. We didn't learn how to pop joints. If it happened it happened but learning to do that wasn't in any massage class I had.

[quote="SambotIt's been a while but PE is endurance. How long one can do something depends on their PE. SDC/Hit Points/MDC is injury. If a character pushes their PE, PS or PP, they risk injury. That injury is reflected in decreased SDC/Hit Points/MDC. The injury could result in a lower PE, PS or PP. For example a person sprains their ankle. They suffer 6 SDC for it and lower PE, PS, and PP because they can't put their full weight on it. quote]


That holds true for gross physical injury, but I've never seen it laid out that exertion/fatigue burns SDC.
And while a sprained ankle may reduce your SDC and Speed, it doesn't necessarily affect your P.E.; you would still have your muscle tone* and endurance that you might apply to rigorous use of your arms.
Now if you were laid up for weeks or months in bed, you might suffer muscle atrophy and fall out of same, losing P.S. and P.E. , but that doesn't factor much in Palladium RPGs(aside from coma cases). Generally SDC/Hit Points are used for figuring how many shots a character can take before going down.

*Though the case could be made that if you didn't distribute your exercise, you might have horse-like muscular legs..... and tyrannosaur wimpy arms incapable of doing much. Aside from Body Hardening exercises in Ninjas & Superspies, however, Palladium doesn't make such distinctions.

But I sense that we're straying away from 'useful skills' and into 'spotty game mechanics' territory here.

If you are dancing well then people will think you are more personable, way to thought.
or to say it a different way...

If I do something cool then they will like me.

I dunno....you can be technically proficient at dancing, but still come off as unlikable.
"Yes, Emperor Palpatine, you executed the Alderaan Waltz perfectly...but the fact that you did it around the cooling body of the Alderaanian coosul doesn't earn you any points."


It's just that you don't come off making a total buffoon of yourself, or wind up in a possible position of injury("The samba is not supposed to end with your leg tugged up under your armpit, and your other leg wrapped around your neck. Though it is impressive that you managed not to take your ear off with your shoe heel.")

Still, I'd grant a low M.A. bonus(+1, no more)

*shrugs* This is just how I read the subtext of the reasons why they got a temp. attribute rise.

Fair enough, though I'm very likely baised against, because I can't dance and don't particularly like dancing(in person. I rather liked Dancing with the Stars). Or maybe because I've seen too much interpretive dance, leading me to conclude that the definition of dance is largely subjective.

It doesn't. The injury did burns the SDC as the SDC/Hit Points represent the body. An injury to it reduces the SDC. Because of the ankle injury you wouldn't be as fast or as agile thus the reduction in PP and PS. It would also effect PE as all your weight is on one leg tiring it out faster.

Of course you could ignore the attribute penalties and push through the pain and move faster but you'd also be causing the injury to worsen burning more SDC and increasing the recovery time.




That would be a more extreme example.




Maybe if you were a tyrannosaur? Or GM allowed. But I think you're right.



I sense that you are right.








That could be.




[/quote]

There's dance and there's choreography. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-cXP1uDFpA

Question: In the PB games is there an Acting skill? if so where?
Background: I was looking in the Go Mental Rifter article and it mentions an optional bonus for the sorting skill. But I don't remember off hand where it would be.

I know about the impersonation skill.

Thanks.

Depending on the type of dancing, yes. The Dancing skill as written is too general and doesn't give many bonuses.
But this thread is not meant for all this discussion of game mechanics. Please take it elsewhere. Thanks.

.

Thanks for compiling them.




That's true and why I think it should. Skills are supposed to be things you spend time doing, especially at the professional level. It's like the running skill. People can run, that doesn't mean they go running every day to get a benefit from it.
No problem. Sorry about that.

Could someone explain the skydiving skill to me. Thanks.

The skill is basically training in the ability to fall from the sky to minimize injury. It can be taken along with parachuting or by itself for characters who have flight of some kind already. It includes estimating the distance to the ground and positioning one's body to avoid injury.

But how's it any different from parachuting? And why would characters who can fly need it?

Parachuing doesn't allow you you to ride wind currents. It's simple drop and deploy. As for flying characters needing it, what happens if a character flying with wings gets shot in the wing? Or a character with a exosuit that flies has the Jets fail?

So which skill lets a char to use a wing suit (squirrel suit) to fly into a landing w/o a parachute?

Modified Skydiving skill maybe? You don't have the same range of motion as a Hang-glider, especially with regards tp coaching thermals and other updrafts.

I'd use the same skill proficiency, except the emphasis is less on not dying at altitude or sudden stop at the end and more on NOT HITTING THAT CLIFF. Landing without a chute(full or drogue) though would constitute a second skil roll at a penalty, depending on local wind conditions and how much velocity the wingsuiter has to bleed off before landing.

But I'm beginning to favor a new skill in this case, though Skydiving would be a prerequisite.

And put it under Physical rather than Pilot.


Good catch there, Drewkitty.

Skydiving and parachuting used in combination maybe. That seems like a complex stunt. T may be right when he says another skill is needed

If they loose a wing or jet they fall. What does that have to do with using a chute to slow your fall to safe speeds? I'm sorry. I don't understand.

I looked up skydiving in wiki. I got parachuting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parachuting



I suspect you're thinking either paragliding, which is kind of like hang gliding, or wingsuit flying which is done before deploying the chute and is under parachuting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragliding
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingsuit_flying

If I may suggest have the skydiving skill be an add on to parachuting with training in of the styles under competition events and other skydiving disciplines? Kind of like a Doctor specializing in a type of medicine. That way a character can select Parachuting as the prerequisite and then the select Skydiving: Canopy piloting as a specialty.

I did the Skydiving skill by request of someone who saw them as being different. If you don't think it is useful, don't use it. I'm not going to spend a lot of board space arguing about it.

Tractor Beam Operations(Technical)
Expertise in the use and application of space-based directed magnetic or gravitic beams to push or pull masses. Though normally largely computer-directed, manual operation input is still needed to properly direct a tractored mass on a heading or position it as desired. Roll twice; once to achieve lock-on, and the second to achieve the desired effect. A failed lock-on means the tractor beam has missed and the target mass is continuing on unimpeded, while a failed roll after lock-on means the target is out of position, movng too fast/slowly, is tumbling, or is suffering structural damage(typically 1d4x100 SDC/1d4 MD per melee) as a result of the botched lock-on. However, this depends on the sophistication of the system employed(GM’s perogative).
Tractor beams tend to be slower on acquisition and delivering effect to a target, compared to other energy projection systems(weapons), so they make poor weapons, especially with an inexperienced operator. They also tend to be energy-expensive, so few polities try to weaponize them.
Base Skill: 50%+5% per level of experience.
+10% if the Architecture: Zero Gravity skill is also possessed.

Architecture: Zero Gravity....Which is where?

more like this please. All ship operations need skills.

I don't see any strike bonus within the TB Op skill. Or are you presuming that the Starship Artillery WP covers striking the intended target ship of the TB?

I'm assuming no bonuses for striking, unless the specific system has assisted targeting.
If a tractor beam/towing system is fast/advanced enough to be weaponized, it would use Weapons Systems or Starship Artillery.
Otherwise, it's the same as the systems described in AU Galaxy Guide and Manhunter, which do not have strike bonuses.
The meat of the skill is being able to establish a solid and enduring lock and being able to manipulate both the beam and the tractor mass to put it where you want it.