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 Post subject: Magii Athanatos
Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:42 am
  

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Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:08 am
Posts: 738
Comment: They/Them
The Magii Path is found on Rifter 16 pp 70-71 and Shadows of Light pg 36. There are slight differences in the writeups, but those are irrelevant for the purposes of this thread.

Can a Magii learn spells at any time, or are they limited to selecting spells upon gaining a level? The description of the Path suggests the former, but given the extremely high P.P.E. and free access to all disciplines of magic (for which I could see an argument for excluding elemental warlock spells, or limiting access to the corresponding Host) even with the lack of spell strength bonuses I honestly would have expected to hear them mentioned at least occasionally as one of the stronger character options.

If we assume they can only learn spells upon leveling, I think it could be fun to determine what a semi-optimal spell list would look like for them, dipping wildly as they would. It would consist of 6 spells from level 1-4, and 1 from levels 2-15, plus a handful of Host-related selections. The Necrosis Magii gets a ludicrous 7d6x10+P.E. P.P.E. at level 1, but with only a couple of Host spell options that leap out.

A somewhat tortured reading of the Path description leads one to think that while they might only learn spells upon leveling, they may learn ritual versions of spells at any time. This strikes me as a fun way to introduce a mostly ritual-based magician, who can both take advantage of that high P.P.E. and circumvent a low spell strength with default ritual strength


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 Post subject: Re: Magii Athanatos
Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:50 pm
  

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Monk

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
Posts: 15791
Location: Eastvale, calif
What it comes down to, the question is are they Mages or are they granted magic users.

The term Magi is used to denote the Scholars or Learned Men of the day. Yes, it has been translated to 'wizard' or 'scoceror' (scoceror having the meaning 'Drug User' in it's tongue of origin. So was misused to mean user of demon gained magic.) So as such the text was written about as concisely as the Costitution and it's first few amendments. Which is par for the course when talking about PB gamebook writing.

What was said means that that when the char levels up they are not limited to just common magic or just one specialty magic (there are three written out within the NB books. Cyber-, Flesh- & Mirror-.)

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 Post subject: Re: Magii Athanatos
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:04 am
  

Adventurer

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:08 am
Posts: 738
Comment: They/Them
Magic can be generally divided into 4 varieties: Innate or Natural, Granted, Intuitive, and Learned. The Athanatos are interesting in that one could argue several of their abilities could be in one or more of these categories. Their Host abilites, stemming from their semi-divine origins, could be said to be any of the first three types while the spells gained as part of the Magii Path are either the third or fourth. The description talks about the Magii studying (learned) mysticism (intuitive). Admittedly, the word mysticism is used loosely by PB. Similarly, the word select is used with respect to spells in all four senses in various O.C.C. writeups, so that's no help either.

I'm inclined to consider the Magii an Intuitive caster, simply because not only are they otherwise the far and away superior Path choice for a character, but are arguably the single best magic using O.C.C.. That they aren't listed as getting bonuses to spell strength is noteworthy, but the Sorcerer and Nightbane Sorcerer don't get listed bonuses either. I'm not fully conversant with the errata, but that particular error seems fairly common.


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 Post subject: Re: Magii Athanatos
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:36 pm
  

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Monk

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
Posts: 15791
Location: Eastvale, calif
There are three divisions of types of magic: Learned, Granted and Intuitive. Innate or Natural magic ability would fall into the Intuitive division because there is nothing that would divide them from it.
Or one could say the Innate or Natural magic is more racial magic than a division of the types of magic. But since racial magic is outside the baseline....*shrugs*

After rereading the text for the above, I noticed that the text very carefuly and not blatantly excludes Granted magic from the Magii's possible spells. This might be a part of the total exclusion of all the granted magic (Witch, warlock & priest) magic and classes from the setting that the NB game uses.
The text only talks about common/regular magic and specialty magic being accessible to the Magii when the text defines what it means by all magic.

The spell str. for all magic classes is written into the magic section of the NB core book.
Edit( the standard spell str level up bonuses are listed in R48 on page 24.)

The text talks about the Magii being Scholars. Then the text goes on to say they study Science, Lore and Mysticism. None of which say they study how to cast magic. As such, the meanings you are using for your arguments are out of context.

I believe that the text was written (or rewritten) in such a way that the Magii Path (not a CC) could, at the GM's choice, be ether be a Learned Mage's path or a Intuitive Magic user path.

Or even maybe the writer assumed that it was obvious the the Magii are Learned Mage, and forgot to insult the text to deliberative say that. (I've seen this before with many of the Rifter magic classes. The Laser Mage is the one that comes to my mind.)


If I was to play this Path I would ask the GM to rule that it's a learned mage type of magic user.

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