What affects spirits?

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What affects spirits?

Unread post by Veknironth »

Well, I started writing a post wondering if you could compel a spirit to tell the truth with Words of Truth. I think not, since the description states "the person" and I don't think spirits qualify as persons. But what would affect a spirit? Would any spells or psionics work on them? What about sensative psionics?

How do spirits communicate once summoned? Do they speak a specific language or does everyone magically understand them? If they knew more than one language while alive, do they have the option of the languages the knew? If they lost a tongue as a child but learned languages could they speak as a spirit with a spirit tongue?

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Re: What affects spirits?

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

The spell does two things as per the canon text, in the PF2 core book.
1 Compels the target to answer the spell caster, but only the spell caster.
2 Compels the target to answer truthfully.
The limitations are that only two brief questions can be asked per melee round...or 8 per minute.
There is an admonishment to keep the questions simple.

Spirits.....I would not agree with Vek. if the spirit in question had a language skill. They would be compelled to answer questions by this spell. But the spirit would only be able to be targeted if the spell caster 'see' the spirit.

However, looking at this at a GM, I would put an understanding limitation on this spell. In that if the target of the spell doesn't understand the language the question is asked in, then they are not compelled to answer.

There is also the loophole if the target knows multiple languages, they are not compelled to use the language the spell caster is using to ask the question.

Summoned beings are covered in the summoner character class, or the spell they were summoned with. Otherwise it is totally up to the GM.
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Re: What affects spirits?

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

Why don't you think "spirits" qualify as a person? Or at least some "spirits" since it is an overly broad classification IMHO.

Megaversally I can't think of too many examples of ethereal beings (off hand), I know in the PF2E main book we have the Wraith (Deevil, pg332), Banshee (Demon, pg316-7), and Labassu Lost Souls (Demon, pg317-8). If these are treated as typical "spirits" then we can say:
-they are vulnerable to magic and psionic powers (but not all, certainly ones that impact the mind are available)
-they can interact with the physical world via psionic powers (none have magic)

Now as far as (classic) communication that doesn't appear to be available to the Banshee, though I'm sure it could communicate in a vague way via empathy transmission. The Labassu fluff text specifically mentions that they can "mock, speak, argue" even in their ghostly state (they can also possess a body), though what language(s) that could appear as is not identified. The Wraith per the fluff text are called out as interrogators (and MASTER spies), skill wise we know they are literate in 7 languages, though nothing states what languages they might speak.

We also know communication can occur with a spirit via possession (Commune with Spirit psi power pg169, PF2E), though it need not (Commune with Spirits spell pg203). Again, what language this occurs in is not specified.

As for "native" tongue, they might all know Elven/Dragonese (per pg50 description PF2E), and/or Demongogian (not a PF language AFAIK, it comes from Rifts), then again it could just be telepathic (universal?*).

Not to sidetrack, but from a Rifts POV... Phaseworld has it as a language skill (Trade2 specifically in DB2). In WB30 (and originating their WBs) the Amorph, Cactus People, and Slurmph call out their telepathic nature in a strange way by listing it as part of the default skill package (RCC) though it states they can speak all because of it which was unusual. The existence of Trade2 and calling it out as they did suggest Telepathy might not be a universal language normally.

I noticed this some time ago when I compiled a Megaversal Language list from my (incomplete) Palladium Library.
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Re: What affects spirits?

Unread post by Reagren Wright »

We don't actually get a definitive definition of what qualifies as a "spirit" in Palladium Fantasy RPG. We know they are definitely not ghosts (entities).
Summon Spirits Circle says it summons beings, monsters and travelers from the Astral Plane (in astral form), beings from the Dreamstream
(Nightbane RPG: Between the Shadows), energy beings and the fragmented essence of supernatural/alien intelligences (um leave them alone). The
psychic power Dispel Spirits uses the term "lesser spirits". In Rifter #4, there are optional "official" rules for Soul Fragments and other spirit like
. Seems Kevin is granting each G.M. their own definition and interpretation of a spirit and thereby keeping Palladium Books away from any
connection with "real life religious beliefs". I think at some point we will need to hammer down a slightly more concrete definition that fits with PFRPG, one
that does not require us to use Nightbane as our only reference to the Astral Plane. Until then, the best we can do is use Astral Entities from Nightbane
Between the Shadows as our classification for what is a lesser and greater spirit in PFRPG.
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