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 Post subject: Lopan: Mosaic Magic???
Unread postPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:54 pm
  

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Champion

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Greetings and Salutations. So I noticed this is the Valentine's Day update.

Quote:
COMING: The Island of Lopan Sourcebook, a fantasy sourcebook
The island kingdom described and mapped, rare and ancient magic, trade with the Old Kingdom, Centaurs, Western intrigue, and more.

History and overview.
Key cities and locations.
Lopan O.C.C.s and people of note.
And Old Kingdom City that is a trade partner.
The mysterious and nearly forgotten Mosaic Magic.
New monsters and magic, weapons and gear.
Written by Glen Evans.
192 pages – $26.99 – Cat. No. 476 – coming in 2020.

Does anyone have any clue why they'd take this away from Phi (per Eastern Territory) and randomly throw it into Lopan instead?

The inconsistency made me flinch the instant I saw it and it's still bugging me a bit. I'm kind of hoping a reasonable explanation will help me let it go. Appreciate any help and/or insight. Farewell and safe journeys.

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Living the Fantasy (fan website)

Rifter #45; Of Bows & Arrows (Archery; expanding rules and abilities)
Rifter #52; From Ruins to Runes (Living Rune Weapons; playable characters and NPC)
Rifter #55; Home Away From Home (Quorian Culture; expanded from PF Book 9: Baalgor Wastelands)

Official PDF versions of Rifter #45, #52, and #55 can be found at DriveThruRPG.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:35 pm
  

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Demon Lord Extraordinaire

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Comment: You probably think this comment is about you, don't you?
To sell books.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:00 pm
  

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Palladium Books® Freelance Writer

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Comment: The greatest part of the writer's time is spent in reading, in order to write: a man will turn over half a library to make one book. - Samuel Johnson, 1775
Originally Lopan and Phi were one book. However, it soon became apparent that there was so much more about both islands then could fit in
one book. So Phi and Lopan got seperated into two books. Lopan now exists in 3 books. Mosaic Magic as told in Eastern Territory is very
much apart of Phi but it has also a long history in Lopan. A very interesting magic indeed.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:44 pm
  

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Champion

Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 7:48 pm
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Location: Boise, ID (US)
Reagren Wright wrote:
Mosaic Magic as told in Eastern Territory is very
much apart of Phi but it
has also a long history in Lopan.

Greetings and Salutations. I glanced through my copy of Eastern Territory again, and I see zero support for Mosaic Magic having a long history in Lopan as you claim. Do you have any source for that claim (as you've claimed it's from the Eastern Territory book)? I've found two sections that talk about Mosaic Magic. One is from the Stone Garden on page 104.

Eastern Territory, page 104 wrote:
Only a few Elven Masters on the Island of Phi possess any knowledge of this last art.

Then mentioned again in the Phi write-up on page 110.

Eastern Territory, page 110 wrote:
At the top of the tallest peak on Mount Phi [snip] is the Citadel of the Sun [snip]. It is [snip] home of the Magi. The Magi are Elven men of magic who are holders of the all-but forgotten art of Mosaic Magic. [snip] Many people come to Phi seeking the council of these Magi.

So if there's a passage in Eastern Territory that states Mosaic Magic has a long history on Lopan, I'll be interested and admit I'm wrong. Otherwise, please don't lie.

Reagren Wright wrote:
A very interesting magic indeed.

Maybe originally. This is one of those cases where we have an interesting "all-but forgotten art" known to only a select group ... oh, and these other guys, because it's so interesting everyone should have it! And the further and further away from "only a few" "on the Island of Phi possess any knowledge" the less and less interesting something becomes. To quote Syndrome (from The Incredibles): "And when everyone's super ... no one will be." Farewell and safe journeys.

_________________
Living the Fantasy (fan website)

Rifter #45; Of Bows & Arrows (Archery; expanding rules and abilities)
Rifter #52; From Ruins to Runes (Living Rune Weapons; playable characters and NPC)
Rifter #55; Home Away From Home (Quorian Culture; expanded from PF Book 9: Baalgor Wastelands)

Official PDF versions of Rifter #45, #52, and #55 can be found at DriveThruRPG.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:41 am
  

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Palladium Books® Freelance Writer

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Comment: The greatest part of the writer's time is spent in reading, in order to write: a man will turn over half a library to make one book. - Samuel Johnson, 1775
Well you will just have to wait until Kevin and I finish editing the material. Just because something gets briefly mentioned in a
previous book 19 years ago doesn't mean its the definitive word on the matter when a new author takes over. Whatever the
author of Eastern Territory had originally envisioned for Mosaic Magic is now NULL AND VOID. With nothing set completely in
stone (no pun intended) the Stone Garden is just a tiny sliver of what is possible for Mosaic Magic. What that means, wait
and see and judged it there. Finally, nothing about Conjuring appears anywhere in Palladium Fantasy until the Mount Nimiro
sourcebook. Palladium Fantasy is an ever evolving world. It's not stuck in a preexisting condition that Kevin completely
envisioned when he created it in the late 1970s and early 1980s. No the Garden of Gods does not appears anywhere in any
cannon material. But a book comes out and says its always been there. Mosaic Magic gets one reference in ET a tiny
reference and we see an example of what it can do in the Stone Garden. That's it. Now you will get to see a NEW O.C.C. that
I hope everyone finds exciting and playable.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:42 pm
  

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Champion

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Location: Boise, ID (US)
Reagren Wright wrote:
Well you will just have to wait until Kevin and I finish editing the material. Just because something gets briefly mentioned in a
previous book 19 years ago doesn't mean its the definitive word on the matter when a new author takes over. Whatever the
author of Eastern Territory had originally envisioned for Mosaic Magic is now NULL AND VOID. With nothing set completely in
stone (no pun intended) the Stone Garden is just a tiny sliver of what is possible for Mosaic Magic. What that means, wait
and see and judged it there.

Greetings and Salutations. Well, my personal feelings on the matter are that new authors should at least try to respect what was already established. Now I realize that my feelings seem to be in the minority on this matter. I can accept that. I had my issues with some of Bill Coffin's material as well for the same reason, and people generally enjoy his material and consider his books some of the best of the setting.

If the answer had been as simple as: "Oops, I forgot it was supposed to be Phi only when writing it" or "Yeah, I know it contradicts the established setting, but when I was writing Mosaic Magic it really came alive and expanding it into Lopan just made sense, so I went with what felt right" I'd have probably just shrugged and moved on. However, when I asked you lied and said Lopan having it was part of Eastern Territory. If you really feel previously established material is null and void with each new writer, you shouldn't have bothered lying. Note: At this point, I wouldn't actually believe either of the previous two answers, as the lie ruined credibility (to me) and just repeating someone else's answer is generally considered cheating.

Reagren Wright wrote:
Finally, nothing about Conjuring appears anywhere in Palladium Fantasy until the Mount Nimiro
sourcebook. Palladium Fantasy is an ever evolving world. It's not stuck in a preexisting condition that Kevin completely
envisioned when he created it in the late 1970s and early 1980s. No the Garden of Gods does not appears anywhere in any
cannon material. But a book comes out and says its always been there.

These are both true, and both bad analogies for what you're talking about. Neither existed in the setting, and nothing in the setting suggested these didn't exist. This is what would be considered expanding on the existing material. Now, I haven't finished reading Garden of the Gods yet, so maybe it will contradict something that I'll object to as well, but I haven't gotten that far yet if it does.

What you're discussing is taking something that already exists, and then changing it. For me, it's like saying you added hovercraft and automatic weapons into the Lopan book, because the previous books are null and void now that you were writing for it. Now making Mosaic Magic into a common magic isn't nearly as extreme, but it's clearly a change and contradiction so not comparable to Garden of the Gods or Conjuring*.

*Conjuring was added in a Bill Coffin book, and while it isn't a good example there are plenty of fitting examples in his books where he does make changes/contradictions. I don't personally care for those aspects either.

Reagren Wright wrote:
Mosaic Magic gets one reference in ET a tiny
reference and we see an example of what it can do in the Stone Garden. That's it.

Two references from what I saw. I noted BOTH of them earlier in this thread. The page numbers and sections were mentioned, and I quoted snippets but not their entirety. We see the Stone Garden (page 104) in one area, where they give us hints at the Magic, connection to Phi only, and it has origins in the Time of a Thousand Magicks. We also have it discussed in the Phi section (page 110) along with the Magi (more detail this time) and the Citadel of the Sun. We're told that the Magi are the ones who know the magic, the place they call home, and that it's "related to Diabolism and yet drastically different."

You feel it's not a big deal, that's fine. I can agree, even though it bothers me a little I understand that's my personal issue. You take the stance anything previously established is null and void whenever you write for it, I won't respect it but that's you're right and I generally won't waste my time to argue. You lie and claim Mosaic Magic was part of Lopan in Eastern Territory (your first post), I'm going to call you on the lie unless you can prove me wrong. Most of your second post has the feel of you peeing on my leg while trying to convince me it's raining.

Reagren Wright wrote:
Now you will get to see a NEW O.C.C. that
I hope everyone finds exciting and playable.

I honestly hope people enjoy it as well. New material for PF that's well received is a good thing. Farewell and safe journeys.

_________________
Living the Fantasy (fan website)

Rifter #45; Of Bows & Arrows (Archery; expanding rules and abilities)
Rifter #52; From Ruins to Runes (Living Rune Weapons; playable characters and NPC)
Rifter #55; Home Away From Home (Quorian Culture; expanded from PF Book 9: Baalgor Wastelands)

Official PDF versions of Rifter #45, #52, and #55 can be found at DriveThruRPG.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:25 pm
  

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Champion

Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:05 pm
Posts: 2193
Comment: Kill it with Fire.
I myself do prefer the continuation of the established, as I guess other long time players would. I understand the excitement of shiny and that Kevin wants to get the ideas out, but because there has been such an amount of time for the books to be coming out often all we have had to work on for places is a little 1 line blurb. I have built things up around some of those 1 line blurbs and have used the idea for years and then find that you are totally wrong about it now does annoy. The eastern territories book was probably the worst for me, it's description at the start is pretty different to what it is now. It's Kevin's idea so he can do what he likes, and having new books is always great, but I doubt I'm the only person out there have put a lot of time into expanding the unknown parts with guesses from those blurbs, and to have it changed is a bit disheartening.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:46 am
  

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Palladium Books® Freelance Writer

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Location: LaPorte, In USA
Comment: The greatest part of the writer's time is spent in reading, in order to write: a man will turn over half a library to make one book. - Samuel Johnson, 1775
kiralon wrote:
I myself do prefer the continuation of the established, as I guess other long time players would. I understand the excitement of shiny and that Kevin wants to get the ideas out, but because there has been such an amount of time for the books to be coming out often all we have had to work on for places is a little 1 line blurb. I have built things up around some of those 1 line blurbs and have used the idea for years and then find that you are totally wrong about it now does annoy. The eastern territories book was probably the worst for me, it's description at the start is pretty different to what it is now. It's Kevin's idea so he can do what he likes, and having new books is always great, but I doubt I'm the only person out there have put a lot of time into expanding the unknown parts with guesses from those blurbs, and to have it changed is a bit disheartening.


I quite agree. Raf-Chalon is only mentioned once in ET and now there is a huge Rifter article. Just names of people are seen
in Old Ones in the Timiro section. Now fully flesh out NPC have been made out of those names. Its amazing how just a name
or a small reference on a page can lead to major campaign, Rifter article, or even a source book. BUT in the case of Lopan
and Phi, the details told in ET which are the only blueprint for Lopan and Phi anywhere, some changes have been made. I
hope nobody holds it against us.


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