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 Post subject: Lopan: Mosaic Magic???
Unread postPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:54 pm
  

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Champion

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Greetings and Salutations. So I noticed this is the Valentine's Day update.

Quote:
COMING: The Island of Lopan Sourcebook, a fantasy sourcebook
The island kingdom described and mapped, rare and ancient magic, trade with the Old Kingdom, Centaurs, Western intrigue, and more.

History and overview.
Key cities and locations.
Lopan O.C.C.s and people of note.
And Old Kingdom City that is a trade partner.
The mysterious and nearly forgotten Mosaic Magic.
New monsters and magic, weapons and gear.
Written by Glen Evans.
192 pages – $26.99 – Cat. No. 476 – coming in 2020.

Does anyone have any clue why they'd take this away from Phi (per Eastern Territory) and randomly throw it into Lopan instead?

The inconsistency made me flinch the instant I saw it and it's still bugging me a bit. I'm kind of hoping a reasonable explanation will help me let it go. Appreciate any help and/or insight. Farewell and safe journeys.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:35 pm
  

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Unread postPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:00 pm
  

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Comment: The greatest part of the writer's time is spent in reading, in order to write: a man will turn over half a library to make one book. - Samuel Johnson, 1775
Originally Lopan and Phi were one book. However, it soon became apparent that there was so much more about both islands then could fit in
one book. So Phi and Lopan got seperated into two books. Lopan now exists in 3 books. Mosaic Magic as told in Eastern Territory is very
much apart of Phi but it has also a long history in Lopan. A very interesting magic indeed.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:44 pm
  

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Reagren Wright wrote:
Mosaic Magic as told in Eastern Territory is very
much apart of Phi but it
has also a long history in Lopan.

Greetings and Salutations. I glanced through my copy of Eastern Territory again, and I see zero support for Mosaic Magic having a long history in Lopan as you claim. Do you have any source for that claim (as you've claimed it's from the Eastern Territory book)? I've found two sections that talk about Mosaic Magic. One is from the Stone Garden on page 104.

Eastern Territory, page 104 wrote:
Only a few Elven Masters on the Island of Phi possess any knowledge of this last art.

Then mentioned again in the Phi write-up on page 110.

Eastern Territory, page 110 wrote:
At the top of the tallest peak on Mount Phi [snip] is the Citadel of the Sun [snip]. It is [snip] home of the Magi. The Magi are Elven men of magic who are holders of the all-but forgotten art of Mosaic Magic. [snip] Many people come to Phi seeking the council of these Magi.

So if there's a passage in Eastern Territory that states Mosaic Magic has a long history on Lopan, I'll be interested and admit I'm wrong. Otherwise, please don't lie.

Reagren Wright wrote:
A very interesting magic indeed.

Maybe originally. This is one of those cases where we have an interesting "all-but forgotten art" known to only a select group ... oh, and these other guys, because it's so interesting everyone should have it! And the further and further away from "only a few" "on the Island of Phi possess any knowledge" the less and less interesting something becomes. To quote Syndrome (from The Incredibles): "And when everyone's super ... no one will be." Farewell and safe journeys.

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Rifter #52; From Ruins to Runes (Living Rune Weapons; playable characters and NPC)
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Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:41 am
  

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Comment: The greatest part of the writer's time is spent in reading, in order to write: a man will turn over half a library to make one book. - Samuel Johnson, 1775
Well you will just have to wait until Kevin and I finish editing the material. Just because something gets briefly mentioned in a
previous book 19 years ago doesn't mean its the definitive word on the matter when a new author takes over. Whatever the
author of Eastern Territory had originally envisioned for Mosaic Magic is now NULL AND VOID. With nothing set completely in
stone (no pun intended) the Stone Garden is just a tiny sliver of what is possible for Mosaic Magic. What that means, wait
and see and judged it there. Finally, nothing about Conjuring appears anywhere in Palladium Fantasy until the Mount Nimiro
sourcebook. Palladium Fantasy is an ever evolving world. It's not stuck in a preexisting condition that Kevin completely
envisioned when he created it in the late 1970s and early 1980s. No the Garden of Gods does not appears anywhere in any
cannon material. But a book comes out and says its always been there. Mosaic Magic gets one reference in ET a tiny
reference and we see an example of what it can do in the Stone Garden. That's it. Now you will get to see a NEW O.C.C. that
I hope everyone finds exciting and playable.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:42 pm
  

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Reagren Wright wrote:
Well you will just have to wait until Kevin and I finish editing the material. Just because something gets briefly mentioned in a
previous book 19 years ago doesn't mean its the definitive word on the matter when a new author takes over. Whatever the
author of Eastern Territory had originally envisioned for Mosaic Magic is now NULL AND VOID. With nothing set completely in
stone (no pun intended) the Stone Garden is just a tiny sliver of what is possible for Mosaic Magic. What that means, wait
and see and judged it there.

Greetings and Salutations. Well, my personal feelings on the matter are that new authors should at least try to respect what was already established. Now I realize that my feelings seem to be in the minority on this matter. I can accept that. I had my issues with some of Bill Coffin's material as well for the same reason, and people generally enjoy his material and consider his books some of the best of the setting.

If the answer had been as simple as: "Oops, I forgot it was supposed to be Phi only when writing it" or "Yeah, I know it contradicts the established setting, but when I was writing Mosaic Magic it really came alive and expanding it into Lopan just made sense, so I went with what felt right" I'd have probably just shrugged and moved on. However, when I asked you lied and said Lopan having it was part of Eastern Territory. If you really feel previously established material is null and void with each new writer, you shouldn't have bothered lying. Note: At this point, I wouldn't actually believe either of the previous two answers, as the lie ruined credibility (to me) and just repeating someone else's answer is generally considered cheating.

Reagren Wright wrote:
Finally, nothing about Conjuring appears anywhere in Palladium Fantasy until the Mount Nimiro
sourcebook. Palladium Fantasy is an ever evolving world. It's not stuck in a preexisting condition that Kevin completely
envisioned when he created it in the late 1970s and early 1980s. No the Garden of Gods does not appears anywhere in any
cannon material. But a book comes out and says its always been there.

These are both true, and both bad analogies for what you're talking about. Neither existed in the setting, and nothing in the setting suggested these didn't exist. This is what would be considered expanding on the existing material. Now, I haven't finished reading Garden of the Gods yet, so maybe it will contradict something that I'll object to as well, but I haven't gotten that far yet if it does.

What you're discussing is taking something that already exists, and then changing it. For me, it's like saying you added hovercraft and automatic weapons into the Lopan book, because the previous books are null and void now that you were writing for it. Now making Mosaic Magic into a common magic isn't nearly as extreme, but it's clearly a change and contradiction so not comparable to Garden of the Gods or Conjuring*.

*Conjuring was added in a Bill Coffin book, and while it isn't a good example there are plenty of fitting examples in his books where he does make changes/contradictions. I don't personally care for those aspects either.

Reagren Wright wrote:
Mosaic Magic gets one reference in ET a tiny
reference and we see an example of what it can do in the Stone Garden. That's it.

Two references from what I saw. I noted BOTH of them earlier in this thread. The page numbers and sections were mentioned, and I quoted snippets but not their entirety. We see the Stone Garden (page 104) in one area, where they give us hints at the Magic, connection to Phi only, and it has origins in the Time of a Thousand Magicks. We also have it discussed in the Phi section (page 110) along with the Magi (more detail this time) and the Citadel of the Sun. We're told that the Magi are the ones who know the magic, the place they call home, and that it's "related to Diabolism and yet drastically different."

You feel it's not a big deal, that's fine. I can agree, even though it bothers me a little I understand that's my personal issue. You take the stance anything previously established is null and void whenever you write for it, I won't respect it but that's you're right and I generally won't waste my time to argue. You lie and claim Mosaic Magic was part of Lopan in Eastern Territory (your first post), I'm going to call you on the lie unless you can prove me wrong. Most of your second post has the feel of you peeing on my leg while trying to convince me it's raining.

Reagren Wright wrote:
Now you will get to see a NEW O.C.C. that
I hope everyone finds exciting and playable.

I honestly hope people enjoy it as well. New material for PF that's well received is a good thing. Farewell and safe journeys.

_________________
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Rifter #45; Of Bows & Arrows (Archery; expanding rules and abilities)
Rifter #52; From Ruins to Runes (Living Rune Weapons; playable characters and NPC)
Rifter #55; Home Away From Home (Quorian Culture; expanded from PF Book 9: Baalgor Wastelands)

Official PDF versions of Rifter #45, #52, and #55 can be found at DriveThruRPG.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:25 pm
  

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Comment: Kill it with Fire.
I myself do prefer the continuation of the established, as I guess other long time players would. I understand the excitement of shiny and that Kevin wants to get the ideas out, but because there has been such an amount of time for the books to be coming out often all we have had to work on for places is a little 1 line blurb. I have built things up around some of those 1 line blurbs and have used the idea for years and then find that you are totally wrong about it now does annoy. The eastern territories book was probably the worst for me, it's description at the start is pretty different to what it is now. It's Kevin's idea so he can do what he likes, and having new books is always great, but I doubt I'm the only person out there have put a lot of time into expanding the unknown parts with guesses from those blurbs, and to have it changed is a bit disheartening.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:46 am
  

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kiralon wrote:
I myself do prefer the continuation of the established, as I guess other long time players would. I understand the excitement of shiny and that Kevin wants to get the ideas out, but because there has been such an amount of time for the books to be coming out often all we have had to work on for places is a little 1 line blurb. I have built things up around some of those 1 line blurbs and have used the idea for years and then find that you are totally wrong about it now does annoy. The eastern territories book was probably the worst for me, it's description at the start is pretty different to what it is now. It's Kevin's idea so he can do what he likes, and having new books is always great, but I doubt I'm the only person out there have put a lot of time into expanding the unknown parts with guesses from those blurbs, and to have it changed is a bit disheartening.


I quite agree. Raf-Chalon is only mentioned once in ET and now there is a huge Rifter article. Just names of people are seen
in Old Ones in the Timiro section. Now fully flesh out NPC have been made out of those names. Its amazing how just a name
or a small reference on a page can lead to major campaign, Rifter article, or even a source book. BUT in the case of Lopan
and Phi, the details told in ET which are the only blueprint for Lopan and Phi anywhere, some changes have been made. I
hope nobody holds it against us.


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Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:32 am
  

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The concern with keeping books as consistent as possible is a perfectly valid one. I respect it and go out of my way to try to keep my maps as canon-compliant as possible.

In writing new material, Glen has to deal with several priorities. He must impress Kevin so that he'll publish the material, and he must attract fans who will buy it. I can tell you from personal experience with Glen that he cares a lot about trying to keep his creations as consistent with previous material as possible, occasionally to a fault.

Herein lies the problem, though. Lopan as described in ET is kind of dull. There are the games that happen once every 3 years, but otherwise it's calm, nice vacation spot, prosperous and politically stable. That's a problem. Palladium Fantasy sourcebooks are supposed to be primers for adventures and campaigns. In any regional sourcebook, there's at least one (and often more) powder kegs ready to explode into conflict of some kind or other. ET's description of Lopan lacks that kind of looming conflict. So why would adventurers go there?

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Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:46 am
  

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Comment: Kill it with Fire.
Lopan is important to me because its the centre of palladium. It has a huge(as in size of the stones, its still a primary 21 stone) henge, built by spriggan, with the city built by the elves and the walls by dwarves, with the stones incorporated into important buildings and walls. The Altar stone is the foundation stone for castle Lopania. It has 4 Elemental guardians that can be summoned by the Royal Bloodline of Lopania and the western empire would certainly find the island a very convenient staging ground for continuing the invasion of the eastern territories. I say continuing because Lopan and Phi are part of the Eastern Territories (Says so in the main book).
It has a swamp in the SW of the island that has a particular group of Druids that use and battle in the astral plane to help protect Lopan from being attacked by dark entities that are trying to break into the palace in the capital to release their more powerful brethren bound there.

There is an inn on the island that is rumoured to have no less then 7 rune weapons in the basement, and apparently if you find out the right inn and get in to steal one or all the innkeeper will
a)just laugh at you and says sucked in, all purchases are final.
and
b) Ask where you want your remains buried


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Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:28 pm
  

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Comment: The greatest part of the writer's time is spent in reading, in order to write: a man will turn over half a library to make one book. - Samuel Johnson, 1775
kiralon wrote:
Lopan is important to me because its the centre of palladium. It has a huge(as in size of the stones, its still a primary 21 stone) henge, built by spriggan, with the city built by the elves and the walls by dwarves, with the stones incorporated into important buildings and walls. The Altar stone is the foundation stone for castle Lopania. It has 4 Elemental guardians that can be summoned by the Royal Bloodline of Lopania and the western empire would certainly find the island a very convenient staging ground for continuing the invasion of the eastern territories. I say continuing because Lopan and Phi are part of the Eastern Territories (Says so in the main book).
It has a swamp in the SW of the island that has a particular group of Druids that use and battle in the astral plane to help protect Lopan from being attacked by dark entities that are trying to break into the palace in the capital to release their more powerful brethren bound there.

There is an inn on the island that is rumoured to have no less then 7 rune weapons in the basement, and apparently if you find out the right inn and get in to steal one or all the innkeeper will
a)just laugh at you and says sucked in, all purchases are final.
and
b) Ask where you want your remains buried


I get it the Lopan you created is very personal to you. It took me a very long time to accept the ET sourcebook because my ET looked very
different from the cannon sourcebook. I have 12 or more adventures in the ET that cannon happen because they don't match anything in
ET. But here the good news. Whatever comes out whether for Rifts, Phase World, or PF doesn't matter. The world you create for your
players is as cannon as you want it to be. Remember PF is Kevin upgraded AD&D Rules. His annoyance with certain rules turned into a game
setting. Same difference.


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Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:16 pm
  

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Hotrod wrote:
The concern with keeping books as consistent as possible is a perfectly valid one. I respect it and go out of my way to try to keep my maps as canon-compliant as possible.

In writing new material, Glen has to deal with several priorities. He must impress Kevin so that he'll publish the material, and he must attract fans who will buy it. I can tell you from personal experience with Glen that he cares a lot about trying to keep his creations as consistent with previous material as possible, occasionally to a fault.

Greetings and Salutations. First, I'll state I appreciate all your efforts with your maps. With that said, I've taken a few days away from the thread so that I can better distance myself from my feelings. With that in mind, I'll start with why I began this thread (in order).

1: I found the inclusion of Mosaic Magic in Lopan jarring. I was curious if other people felt the same way.
2: I figured someone may know of a reference I missed that gave support to Lopan having Mosaic Magic, in which case what bothered me was only my ignorance and I got to learn something new.
3: I figured there was a chance Glen might respond (and he did) and give some insight, even if it was just "Oops, I was writing Phi and Lopan at the same time, and at some point I must've gotten my notes mixed up." Note: He didn't say that, and that was just an example of things that crossed my mind. While not ideal, it's one of those "mistakes happen" things and I'd just shrug and move on.
4: Following 3 (if 2 didn't happen), with the revisions that have gone on, I figured it was possible bringing this up may get a line or two thrown in to explain the conflict (if such a line or more doesn't already exist). So something like: "Mosaic Magic is well known across the world as secrets possessed solely by the Magi. But the truth is that it has a long standing history in both Phi and Lopan. However, the Magi hunt down anyone using it publicly to keep up their facade, so practitioners must do so in secret." Not the best written (as that was a quick concept), but something like a concept of the CS (from Rifts) with their SAMAS being CS invented story. So while a contradiction, it can be taken as the line in Eastern Territory is the popular belief rumor, and now we're getting into the hidden truth.*

*I don't know the details of Mosaic Magic as presented in the upcoming book. I'm just providing an example of explaining the contradiction in setting to smooth the transition. If such a thing already exists (and I don't expect Glen to state the details here, of course), great.

I get that details can't be provided. I genuinely do. But some of the responses in the thread have come off ... misleading and dismissive. I'll give the benefit of the doubt that this was not the intent, but that's how they've come off (at least to me).

Hotrod wrote:
Herein lies the problem, though. Lopan as described in ET is kind of dull. There are the games that happen once every 3 years, but otherwise it's calm, nice vacation spot, prosperous and politically stable. That's a problem. Palladium Fantasy sourcebooks are supposed to be primers for adventures and campaigns. In any regional sourcebook, there's at least one (and often more) powder kegs ready to explode into conflict of some kind or other. ET's description of Lopan lacks that kind of looming conflict. So why would adventurers go there?

I see what you're saying, and I can agree ... to a certain extent. Lopan does have issues with the Western Empire, for one. I was personally a fan of the theory that Sekti-Abtu was located there. There's also mentioned "intrigues" there, and I feel there was room to expand on possible conflicts without adding in Mosaic Magic. Furthermore, if Mosaic Magic is what makes Lopan interesting to travel to, then why screw over Phi and make it a boring place to go?

I also don't think everything needs to be on the brink of a disaster to be worth visiting. I mean, do people go: "Disney World is boring. I mean, what's the point of going unless the rides are constantly about to break down and potentially kill everyone on them and there are pedophiles lurking around every corner ready to abduct your children." In fact, the second part I'm fairly sure would make people NOT want to go there. Now I know RPG books and the real world are not the same thing, but I still don't think things need to be doom and gloom to be interesting. With that said, I'm not the writer of the book. In fact, I'm going to say I'm fairly confident I couldn't pull off a Lopan book. So if that's what the writer felt was needed, I wouldn't judge. My goal isn't to condemn, but intent is to make things better (whether it's an idea that can improve the book, or for me to learn something that improves me as an individual).

Now, I did see something earlier that did give me an idea.

Reagren Wright wrote:
Now you will get to see a NEW O.C.C. that
I hope everyone finds exciting and playable.

While rereading some of the Eastern Territory notes about Mosaic Magic, it did occur to me that Mosaic Magic is very much written as a NPC class akin to an Alchemist. I mean, a secret magic known only to some members of this one specific group*. That's probably a bit easier to create in some ways (full details don't need to be given), but I also know Kevin likes the idea of the book being usable for the players, and if the players can't play it then it's not as important. The above suggest it's a playable magic class. So I can understand the change, if coming at it from that perspective.

*What little this has appeared in my games, I've treated the Magi much like the mafia. People may go to them for help or advice, feared and respected, and no one dares cross them if they know what's best.

With that said, that's not the type of response that was given. I'm left trying to piece things together. With that said, at this point, I think one of my main hopes is that there's at least an attempt to explain the contradiction in universe, because sometimes the illusion can go a long way (at least for me). Farewell and safe journeys.

_________________
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Rifter #45; Of Bows & Arrows (Archery; expanding rules and abilities)
Rifter #52; From Ruins to Runes (Living Rune Weapons; playable characters and NPC)
Rifter #55; Home Away From Home (Quorian Culture; expanded from PF Book 9: Baalgor Wastelands)

Official PDF versions of Rifter #45, #52, and #55 can be found at DriveThruRPG.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 2:20 am
  

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Comment: Kill it with Fire.
For my campaigns the mystics of phi weren't visited often because they only gave cryptic answers that were useful with hindsight, and were the mystic class before psi mystics pooped into existence. They used a type of magic that you needed to roll a d20 to cast a spell to see if it worked, and you could keep casting spells all day while the roll was successful, but one failed roll meant no more spellcasting for the day, and going up levels meant more potential fails.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:15 pm
  

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Prysus wrote:
1: I found the inclusion of Mosaic Magic in Lopan jarring. I was curious if other people felt the same way.

I think your reaction is perfectly valid and appropriate. When I read it, the difference between it and what Eastern Territory stated did stand out to me. I didn't find it jarring, though; I found Garden of the Gods being located on Lopan more jarring than Mosaic Magic being there too. Given its apparent importance, it's something that I would like to see mentioned or referenced in other canon books.

Prysus wrote:
2: I figured someone may know of a reference I missed that gave support to Lopan having Mosaic Magic, in which case what bothered me was only my ignorance and I got to learn something new.

Alas, I can't help you there. It strikes me as being a retcon. I suspect that we will see more retcons as Lopan and Phi get published, though I'm not directly involved in either project (though I hope to make maps for and of both).

Prysus wrote:
3: I figured there was a chance Glen might respond (and he did) and give some insight, even if it was just "Oops, I was writing Phi and Lopan at the same time, and at some point I must've gotten my notes mixed up." Note: He didn't say that, and that was just an example of things that crossed my mind. While not ideal, it's one of those "mistakes happen" things and I'd just shrug and move on.

I think your reaction, thoughts, and concerns about Mosaic Magic being in Lopan are completely legitimate. You're a passionate and detail-oriented fan with encyclopedic knowledge of published canon. You're one of my favorite community members to bounce my creations and maps off for this reason.

Prysus wrote:
4: Following 3 (if 2 didn't happen), with the revisions that have gone on, I figured it was possible bringing this up may get a line or two thrown in to explain the conflict (if such a line or more doesn't already exist). So something like: "Mosaic Magic is well known across the world as secrets possessed solely by the Magi. But the truth is that it has a long standing history in both Phi and Lopan. However, the Magi hunt down anyone using it publicly to keep up their facade, so practitioners must do so in secret." Not the best written (as that was a quick concept), but something like a concept of the CS (from Rifts) with their SAMAS being CS invented story. So while a contradiction, it can be taken as the line in Eastern Territory is the popular belief rumor, and now we're getting into the hidden truth.*

*I don't know the details of Mosaic Magic as presented in the upcoming book. I'm just providing an example of explaining the contradiction in setting to smooth the transition. If such a thing already exists (and I don't expect Glen to state the details here, of course), great.

I think that's an excellent point and suggestion.

Prysus wrote:
I get that details can't be provided. I genuinely do. But some of the responses in the thread have come off ... misleading and dismissive. I'll give the benefit of the doubt that this was not the intent, but that's how they've come off (at least to me).


I suspect that, having worked on the Phi and Lopan manuscripts for a few years, Glen may have confused some of what he has written with the source material in ET. I don't think he was trying to lie or deceive you about it.
Hotrod wrote:
Herein lies the problem, though. Lopan as described in ET is kind of dull. There are the games that happen once every 3 years, but otherwise it's calm, nice vacation spot, prosperous and politically stable. That's a problem. Palladium Fantasy sourcebooks are supposed to be primers for adventures and campaigns. In any regional sourcebook, there's at least one (and often more) powder kegs ready to explode into conflict of some kind or other. ET's description of Lopan lacks that kind of looming conflict. So why would adventurers go there?

I see what you're saying, and I can agree ... to a certain extent. Lopan does have issues with the Western Empire, for one. I was personally a fan of the theory that Sekti-Abtu was located there. There's also mentioned "intrigues" there, and I feel there was room to expand on possible conflicts without adding in Mosaic Magic. Furthermore, if Mosaic Magic is what makes Lopan interesting to travel to, then why screw over Phi and make it a boring place to go?[/quote]
Not knowing what's in the manuscripts, I can't speak to how big a role Mosaic Magic plays in Phi or Lopan. I hope that they handle it and both islands in a way that's compelling and makes good fodder for GMs and players to work into their adventures.

Prysus wrote:
I also don't think everything needs to be on the brink of a disaster to be worth visiting. I mean, do people go: "Disney World is boring. I mean, what's the point of going unless the rides are constantly about to break down and potentially kill everyone on them and there are pedophiles lurking around every corner ready to abduct your children." In fact, the second part I'm fairly sure would make people NOT want to go there. Now I know RPG books and the real world are not the same thing, but I still don't think things need to be doom and gloom to be interesting. With that said, I'm not the writer of the book. In fact, I'm going to say I'm fairly confident I couldn't pull off a Lopan book. So if that's what the writer felt was needed, I wouldn't judge. My goal isn't to condemn, but intent is to make things better (whether it's an idea that can improve the book, or for me to learn something that improves me as an individual).

I agree that not everything need be on the brink of disaster. Tension and intrigue don't require massive wars or disasters on the cusp of breaking out (though they certainly help build both). That said, utopias are terrible RPG settings, and the ET Lopan description seems to be dancing on the edge of utopia.

Prysus wrote:
Now, I did see something earlier that did give me an idea.

Reagren Wright wrote:
Now you will get to see a NEW O.C.C. that
I hope everyone finds exciting and playable.

While rereading some of the Eastern Territory notes about Mosaic Magic, it did occur to me that Mosaic Magic is very much written as a NPC class akin to an Alchemist. I mean, a secret magic known only to some members of this one specific group*. That's probably a bit easier to create in some ways (full details don't need to be given), but I also know Kevin likes the idea of the book being usable for the players, and if the players can't play it then it's not as important. The above suggest it's a playable magic class. So I can understand the change, if coming at it from that perspective.

*What little this has appeared in my games, I've treated the Magi much like the mafia. People may go to them for help or advice, feared and respected, and no one dares cross them if they know what's best.

With that said, that's not the type of response that was given. I'm left trying to piece things together. With that said, at this point, I think one of my main hopes is that there's at least an attempt to explain the contradiction in universe, because sometimes the illusion can go a long way (at least for me). Farewell and safe journeys.

I share your hope.

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