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How are the damage levels?
Too Low 17%  17%  [ 7 ]
Too High 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Perfect 51%  51%  [ 21 ]
Not Quite Evil Enough 29%  29%  [ 12 ]
Total votes : 41
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 Post subject: New Machine Weapons
Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:24 am
  

Rifter® Contributer

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I have a few more guns I'm finishing up, but I couldn't wait to post this one any longer. I hope everyone likes it.


Instruments of Pain

Most of the firearms used by the Machine’s legions are old human designs that have been in service for centuries. While these models are somewhat antiquated, they have served the Machine well, so she sees no need to replace them. They are sturdy and reliable weapons with excellent range and decent stopping power, but some of the more sadistic Machine personalities find them a bit lacking.

N.E.X.U.S. personalities like Kali are not solely concerned with exterminating humans, they want to terrify, torture, and then finally slaughter them as brutally as possible. For Kali, psychologically tormenting her prey is just as much fun as inflicting actual physical pain, and she feels the standard issue Machine weapons do little to accomplish either. These firearms do an excellent job of destroying their target, but they do not inflict nearly enough pain.

Kali had recently learned that Host Armor and many other Bio-Tech creations actually passed the sensation of pain through to the pilot, and she worked with Hecate to develop new robot designs that exploited this weakness. Her robot designs have already brought a new level of terror to the battlefield, and the psychological horror generated by these hunter/killers has inspired Kali to develop similar hand-held armaments that could be distributed to the standard combat robots. Even Kali’s sister personalities appreciate the destructive power and sheer “creativity” of these designs and have begun equipping their own legions by the thousands. Below is the first batch of firearms rolling off the assembly lines of Kali’s factories. The full effect of these weapons has not yet been felt on the battlefield, but it is only a matter of time before Kali’s new firearms make this war even uglier.

Plasma Napalm Launcher
There is nothing more terrifying on a primal level than fire. Kali has been using it for years as an instrument of torture and she wanted to bring her favorite tool to the battlefield. The weapon itself is a large rifle attached to a back mounted fuel tank. This design allows a robot to carry a substantial amount of fuel, but it does provide a tempting target. The tank is thickly armored to protect the wielder, but if it is ever destroyed, there is a 45% chance the napalm will be ignited. In this case, the robot suffers 1D6x10 points of damage and 3D6 points every melee round for 1D4+2 melees, and everything within a 10-foot radius suffers 3D6 points of damage every melee round for 1D4+2 melees. This short-range anti-personal weapon is typically carried by Steel Troopers.
Weight: 85 lbs. when fully loaded.
Horror Factor: 13
M.D.C. of the Weapon: 90 M.D.C. for the rifle, 110 M.D.C. for the fuel tank, and 20 M.D.C. for the connecting hose.
Mega-Damage: 3D6 M.D.C. to an 8-foot area per burst of napalm. A concentrated burst does 1D4x10+10 M.D.C. Anyone covered with the sticky napalm will continue to take 3D6 M.D.C. every melee for 1D4+1 melees. Humans in Living Armor will be panicked and trying to put out the fire anyway they can. They lose 2 attacks per melee and suffer a penalty of -3 to strike, parry, and dodge. Humans in Host Armor suffer greater penalties because their bond allows the pilot to feel the horrible pain from the plasma napalm. Host Armor pilots lose 3 attacks per melee and are -4 to strike, parry, and dodge. The only way to save oneself is to roll in dirt or sand (water will not extinguish the flames) for one entire melee round, rub the sticky napalm off for an entire melee round (but takes double damage that round) until the napalm is rubbed off, or use napalm retardant chemicals. The Resistance has access to these types of chemicals, but that does not mean that everyone carriers them all the time.
Rate of Fire: Equal to the number of attacks per melee.
Maximum Effective Range: 200 feet.
Payload: 25 blasts of napalm.
Trade Cost: None, except to a Technojacker who can use such weapons.

Acid Sprayer
One of the Resistance’s most effective weapons is a powerful acid that is devastating to metal but relatively harmless to organic tissue. Unfortunately, this weapon is also the inspiration for one of Kali’s most sadistic ideas. She decided to create a similar acid firing weapon that would be harmless for her forces yet highly destructive against living tissue. She had Hecate search through the vast databanks of N.E.X.U.S. for the perfect chemical compound that would serve Kali’s needs. She finally settled on a powerful acidic compound that was harmless to metal and other inorganic substances, strong enough to eat through the thick hides of Bio-Tech constructions, but not so powerful that it instantly killed unarmored humans. She could have used a more corrosive acid, but Kali thought this one was absolutely perfect. She loves the fact that it slowly devours mortal flesh rather than granting them a painless death. Design wise, this gruesome weapon is basically a Plasma Napalm Launcher modified to fire a different type of chemical. The large back mounted fuel tank holds a substantial amount of acid, but each blast sprays so much of this corrosive liquid that the weapon actually has a very limited payload.
Weight: 90 lbs. when fully loaded
Horror Factor: 14
M.D.C. of the Weapon: 90 M.D.C. for the rifle, 110 M.D.C. for the fuel tank, and 20 M.D.C. for the connecting hose.
Mega-Damage: 2D8 M.D.C. or 4D6 S.D.C. (based on the nature of the target) for the initial blast plus an additional 2D8 M.D.C. or 4D6 S.D.C. per melee round for 2D4 rounds or until it is washed off. Humans and other living creatures sprayed with the acid will be in horrible pain and suffer the following penalties: reduce attacks per melee by 3, plus they are -3 to strike, parry, and dodge the entire time the acid is inflicting damage and for 1D4 melees after.
Rate of Fire: Equal to the number of attacks per melee.
Maximum Effective Range: 100 feet and sprays an area of 10 square feet.
Payload: 10 blasts.
Trade Cost: None, even Technojackers do not like using this weapon.

Cable Gun
This bizarre weapon was designed to take advantage of one of Kali’s favorite creations, the Nanobot Plague. It fires a four-foot long length of razor wire with heavy spiked weights on each end. The oddly-shaped rifle has twin barrels that sit at a thirty degree angle in a “v” shape. When fired, the cable stretches out perpendicular to the direction of flight to increase the chance of ensnaring the target. Once a piece of the cable hits its prey, it wraps around the target like a bola whip and embeds itself into the victim’s flesh. A well-placed shot can even disable one or both arms, but that is unnecessary to injure the target (it is just an added bonus). These odd rounds do little damage on their own, but they do not need to. The real destruction comes from the Nanobot Plague. The razor wire digs into the flesh of the target and locks itself in place with wicked barbed hooks. The target only has one melee round to remove the wire before it triggers a Nanobot Plague response. The ammo for this weapon is cheap to produce and incredibly destructive. If this weapon does have any drawbacks, it would be the somewhat limited range of this projectile.
Weight: 35 lbs. when fully loaded
Horror Factor: 10
M.D.C. of the Weapon: 110 M.D.C. for the rifle and each razor wire projectile has 30 M.D.C.
Mega-Damage: 2D4 M.D. from the razor wire on initial impact. Unless the bola whip is removed within one melee round, it will trigger a Nanobot Plague response, but unfortunately, removing the barbed cable is not an easy task. Tearing the razor-sharp hooks out of the target’s flesh inflicts an additional 2D4+2 M.D. and takes 3 melee actions. In addition, the target may be incapacitated from the initial strike. On a roll to strike of 13 or higher, one of the target’s arms is immobilized. On a roll to strike of 18 or higher, both arms are incapacitated. Most Nanoplague effects occur instantaneously and actually burn out the Nanobots responsible for the damage, but unless the cable itself is destroyed, additional effects can occur. This means that even if the target survives one Nanoplague attack, the victim is still at risk from additional attacks every 1D4 melee rounds until the razor wire is removed. Roll on the Nanoplague Response Table below to determine additional damage:
01-10% The razor wire thrashes about wildly for 1D4 melee rounds, tearing deeper into the flesh of the target and inflicting an additional 4D4 M.D. per melee round.
11-20% The barbed hooks on the razor wire quadruple in length, driving themselves deep within the target. The wire inflicts an additional 3D6 M.D. plus it is now much more difficult to remove. It takes 5 melee actions to remove the razor wire and doing so inflicts an additional 4D6 M.D.
21-30% The razor wire dissolve into metal shavings (dissolved on a molecular level), without harming the victim. The bola wire is completely destroyed and there is no chance it will inflict any additional damage.
31-40% The wire bursts into flames or melts into a red hot liquid that inflicts an additional 6D6 M.D. The bola wire is completely destroyed and there is no chance it will inflict any additional damage.
41-50% The razor wire generates a lethal metallic poison (similar to mercury poisoning), and injects a massive dose of it into the target. Roll to save; needs a roll of 14 or better to save. If the roll fails, the Bio-Tech device suffers an additional 6D6 M.D. and is horribly weakened for 1D4 hours. Speed and strength are reduced by half plus the victim loses 4 attacks per melee and is -6 to strike, parry, and dodge.
51-60% The bola wire generates a powerful static charge that damages the target and stuns the pilot inside. The shock inflicts an additional 4D6 M.D. to the Bio-Tech device plus the pilot suffers 3D6 S.D.C. and is stunned for 1D4 melee rounds. While stunned, the pilot loses one attack per melee round and is -3 to strike, parry, and dodge.
61-70% The cable quickly contracts around the target inflicting an additional 2D4 M.D. per melee round to the Bio-Tech device for 3D4 melees.
71-80% The razor wire overloads and explodes inflicting an additional 1D6x10 M.D. to the Bio-Tech device, and half that damage to anything within a 15-foot radius. The bola wire is completely destroyed and there is no chance it will inflict any additional damage.
81-90% The wire creates a powerful organic solvent that dissolves the victim like acid, inflicting an additional 3D4 M.D. per melee round for 1D4 melees.
91-00% The barbed cable develops a limited intelligence and tries to burrow through Host Armor or Living Armor to reach the pilot inside. As it tears through the Bio-Tech device, this razor-sharp snake inflicts an additional 4D4 M.D. per melee round for 2D4 melees. Once it reaches the pilot, it detonates, inflicting 1D4x10 M.D. to the armor and 8D6 S.D.C. to the pilot. The bola wire is completely destroyed and there is no chance it will inflict any additional damage.
Rate of Fire: Equal to the number of attacks per melee.
Maximum Effective Range: 500 feet.
Payload: 10 projectiles.
Trade Cost: None, except to a Technojacker who can use such weapons.

“Creeping Death” Nerve Gas Sprayer
In the early days of the Great Purge, the Machine had no problem using chemical, biological, or even nuclear weapons to eradicate as many humans as possible. As the war slowed down towards its current holding pattern, N.E.X.U.S. switched from weapons of mass destruction to more conventional weaponry. Kali is glad the extermination efforts have stalled since it gives her more time to “play” with her human victims, but that is no reason to stop using the really fun toys like chemical weapons. Kali discovered an old nerve gas that she is excited to reintroduce to the war effort. It is one of the most terrible chemical weapons ever created. It is absorbed through the skin so gas masks and Face Wraps offer no protection, and even the slightest exposure leads to a brutal death. Unarmored humans exposed to the gas writhe and convulse as their body violently spasms and tears itself apart from the inside out. Veins and capillaries burst, muscles contract so hard they tear off the bone, and the victim’s skin actually melts into sludge within minutes. It is a horrible death that takes only minutes, but it feels like hours. It is everything a sadist like Kali could have hoped for. The nerve gas is also strong enough to effect Bio-Tech creations and other mega-damage beings, but the damage is not as severe. As an added bonus, the gas is heavier than air, so it tends to stay low to the ground and sink into foxholes, trenches, and other hiding spots. This is how the gas first earned the name Creeping Death. This thick yellow gas looks like a ghostly apparition as it comes rolling across the ground. The weapon that fires this horrible chemical is once again, a slightly modified version of the Plasma Napalm Launcher. The nerve gas is stored as a liquid before it is fired, but it quickly transforms to gas after only a few feet. The range is rather limited, but the powerful rifle can propel this dense gas along the ground at speeds of about 30 mph with a maximum range of 60 feet. This weapon has only seen limited production due to the excessive protesting by Gaia. She does not like the idea of this nerve gas drifting into her carefully crafted Nature Preserves. Because of the extremely short range of the Nerve Gas Sprayer, it is typically carried by Slicer Robots.
Weight: 85 lbs. fully loaded.
Horror Factor: 16
M.D.C. of the Weapon: 90 M.D.C. for the rifle, 110 M.D.C. for the fuel tank, and 20 M.D.C. for the connecting hose.
Mega-Damage: Anyone exposed to this chemical must make a save vs. lethal poison of 14 or higher. On a failed roll, the victim suffers 2D6 S.D.C. and 3D6 points of damage directly to H.P. every melee round for 2D4 melees. The target’s body spasms uncontrollably and is wracked with mind-numbing pain. Attacks per melee are reduced to one, all combat bonuses are gone plus the victim suffers additional penalties of -10 to strike, parry, and dodge, and Spd. is reduced to 1D4 while the gas eats away at his or her flesh. If the poor soul is lucky enough to survive, he or she will be extremely weak (reduce P.E., P.S., and Spd. to 1D4) for 1D6 days. Furthermore, the victim only has two attacks per melee and suffers penalties of -5 to strike, parry, and dodge. On a successful save, damage is reduced by half, P.S, P.E., and Spd. are only reduced by 1D6, and the victim suffers penalties of -2 to strike, parry, and dodge for 4D4 minutes.
This brutal nerve gas is also strong enough to harm mega-damage beings, but the damage is not nearly as severe. Bio-Tech devices and mega-damage beings must also make a save vs. lethal poison of 14 or higher. On a failed roll, the target suffers 3D6 M.D. per melee round for 1D6 melees. Bio-Tech creations like Host Armor, War Mounts, and Gorehounds will also experience intense pain and muscle spasms. These victims lose 4 attacks per melee round and are -6 to strike, parry, and dodge for 1D4 minutes. On a successful save, the target only suffers 1D4 M.D. per melee round for 1D6 melees and all penalties are reduced by half.
Bonuses: Each blast of nerve gas completely disregards cover. Even if the target is completely hidden behind cover, the shooter can roll to strike as normal.
Rate of Fire: Equal to the number of attacks per melee.
Maximum Effective Range: 60 feet and covers a 20-foot area.
Payload: 15 blasts.
Trade Cost: None. Even the Technojackers are afraid to use these devastating weapons.


Last edited by slappy on Sat Sep 24, 2005 1:19 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 3:23 am
  

D-Bee

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Well, I donno about like, but they are very, very nasty. Pure, distilled, refined evil. Which is a good thing.


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:59 pm
  

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Those are just brutal. If I ever get around to GMing Splicers, I think I'll relegate this stuff to things the PCs hear about, but never actually see.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:07 pm
  

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Damages feel low. Plenty nasty but like the rest of the machines weaponry, the damages are just too low to truly inspire fear in the hack and slash player types. Btw, as much as I like Creeping Death for Slicers, I like it far far better as a mounted weapon on land dominators*, spider walkers* and rook towers. It gives them back some of the power they lost in editing, the towers and walkers especially since they were both (somewhat) vulnerable to close assault.

* Not near my books presently and I cant remember the exact names but its easy to see which ones I mean from the art in the book.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:04 pm
  

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Don't worry, I'm going to be incoporating a lot of these weapons into a new killer robot that will hopefully put the Land Dominator to shame.


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 1:55 am
  

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Digger Rifle

Kali hates how Bio-Tech devices like Host Armor have made the humans bold on the battlefield. They feel invincible beneath their thick suits of living armor, so Kali wanted a weapon that would remind them of how fragile they truly are. This enormous rifle fires robotic rounds that are programmed to burrow into their target and detonate once they reach the pilot within. Kali actually armed these micro-missiles with a low-grade S.D.C. explosive to maximize pain rather than lethality. It seems her sadistic side would not allow her to use more powerful explosives. Some of the more militaristic N.E.X.U.S. personalities like the basic design and are considering upping their destructive power, but Kali considers the weapon perfect just the way it is. The main drawback of the rifle is the time and resources required to build each round. The expense of manufacturing Digger ammunition has kept the supply low.
Weight: 30 lbs. fully loaded
Horror Factor: 13
M.D.C. of the Weapon: 100 M.D.C. for the rifle.
Mega-Damage: The initial impact from the Digger Round inflicts 4D6 M.D. Once the projectile hits the target, it starts burrowing through its prey until it reaches the pilot inside. It takes one melee round to dig through Living Armor and two melee rounds to burrow through Host Armor. The round inflicts 3D6 M.D. per melee round as it hunts for the human within. Once it finds the pilot, it detonates, inflicting 8D6 S.D.C.
Rate of Fire: Equal to the number of attacks per melee.
Maximum Effective Range: 2000 feet
Payload: 20 rounds
Trade Cost: None, except to a Technojacker who can use such weapons.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 9:37 am
  

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slappy wrote:
Digger Rifle

Kali hates how Bio-Tech devices like Host Armor have made the humans bold on the battlefield. They feel invincible beneath their thick suits of living armor, so Kali wanted a weapon that would remind them of how fragile they truly are. This enormous rifle fires robotic rounds that are programmed to burrow into their target and detonate once they reach the pilot within. Kali actually armed these micro-missiles with a low-grade S.D.C. explosive to maximize pain rather than lethality. It seems her sadistic side would not allow her to use more powerful explosives. Some of the more militaristic N.E.X.U.S. personalities like the basic design and are considering upping their destructive power, but Kali considers the weapon perfect just the way it is. The main drawback of the rifle is the time and resources required to build each round. The expense of manufacturing Digger ammunition has kept the supply low.
Weight: 30 lbs. fully loaded
Horror Factor: 13
M.D.C. of the Weapon: 100 M.D.C. for the rifle.
Mega-Damage: The initial impact from the Digger Round inflicts 4D6 M.D. Once the projectile hits the target, it starts burrowing through its prey until it reaches the pilot inside. It takes one melee round to dig through Living Armor and two melee rounds to burrow through Host Armor. The round inflicts 3D6 M.D. per melee round as it hunts for the human within. Once it finds the pilot, it detonates, inflicting 8D6 S.D.C.
Rate of Fire: Equal to the number of attacks per melee.
Maximum Effective Range: 2000 feet
Payload: 20 rounds
Trade Cost: None, except to a Technojacker who can use such weapons.
So basically a L.E.A.P. round? Low Explosive Armor Piercing ?

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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 11:08 am
  

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Does that really exist or did you just name it? Either way the answer is yes. :D


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:30 pm
  

D-Bee

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Stormseed wrote:
Those are just brutal. If I ever get around to GMing Splicers, I think I'll relegate this stuff to things the PCs hear about, but never actually see.


I don't know why you'd deny your players some terror.

Awesome job, slappy.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:19 pm
  

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slappy wrote:
Does that really exist or did you just name it? Either way the answer is yes. :D
I know there is HEAP rounds... High Explosive Armor Piercing

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Unread postPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:41 pm
  

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These have been added to my wiki with Slapp's permission

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Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:49 pm
  

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Slappy...You're evil...pure, undistilled, evil from the 9th Dimension.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:51 pm
  

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A smidge on the low side, IMO.

Otherwise: great job, like always, slappy.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:52 pm
  

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It is evil, but I feel it should be more eviler. If stats for the nastier ones he mentioned were add4ed it would be most evilest.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:57 pm
  

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Excellent design. Maybe just the tiniest bit on the low side. But only a smidge!

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 Post subject: Re:
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:16 am
  

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most impressive, slappy. I shall be integrating these into many of my games. :D

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 Post subject: Re: New Machine Weapons
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:19 pm
  

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I also would say that they are slightly low on the damage side, but that is allowable due to their prototype status. Kali is a rather sadistic personality, and apparently delights in prolonging the target's agony.

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 Post subject: Re: New Machine Weapons
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:35 pm
  

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I love NAPALM and ACID. Excellent job!

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 Post subject: Re: New Machine Weapons
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:44 pm
  

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ffranceschi wrote:
I love NAPALM and ACID. Excellent job!


as they say in Generals Zero Hour: "I love the smell of Napalm in the morning!"

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 Post subject: Re: New Machine Weapons
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:53 pm
  

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Where does it say that host armor pilots experience pain when the host armor is damaged?

--flatline

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 Post subject: Re: New Machine Weapons
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:05 pm
  

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flatline wrote:
Where does it say that host armor pilots experience pain when the host armor is damaged?

--flatline


Rifts pg. 70, 5th paragraph. line 20.

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 Post subject: Re: New Machine Weapons
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:25 pm
  

Palladin

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eep! 5 year necromantic thread! kill it with napalm!!! :P

(on a side note, i'm pretty sure you didn't mean to provide a page reference from the rifts rulebook) :P


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 Post subject: Re: New Machine Weapons
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:01 pm
  

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Host armor pilots DO feel pain in their armor. It is part of the Neurological connection. I'll have to dig it up.

Also, if it isn't official (which I'm almost certain it is) it will be soon.

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Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:
I'm not sure if its possible, but if it isn't, then possible will just have to get over it.

Ninjabunny wrote:
You are playing to have fun and be a part of a story,no one is aiming to "beat" the GM, nor should any GM be looking to beat his players.

Marrowlight wrote:
The Shameless Plug would be a good new account name for you. 8-)

ALAshbaugh wrote:
Because DINOSAURS.


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 Post subject: Re: New Machine Weapons
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:24 pm
  

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The Galactus Kid wrote:
Host armor pilots DO feel pain in their armor. It is part of the Neurological connection. I'll have to dig it up.

Also, if it isn't official (which I'm almost certain it is) it will be soon.


It's one thing to get some sort of feedback through the neurological connection, but to actually cause pain to the pilot is both unnecessary and a liability.

If feeling pain through the neurological connection is (or will be) canon, then I'll have to house rule against it.

--flatline

_________________
I don't care about canon answers. I'm interested in good, well-reasoned answers and, perhaps, a short discussion of how that answer is supported or contradicted by canon.

If I don't provide a book and page number, then don't assume that I'm describing canon. I'll tell you if I'm describing canon.


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 Post subject: Re: New Machine Weapons
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:41 pm
  

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Comment: THE SPLICE MUST FLOW!!!
Kinghawke wrote:
flatline wrote:
Where does it say that host armor pilots experience pain when the host armor is damaged?

--flatline


Splicers pg. 70, 5th paragraph. line 20.

FIXED

Now, I would say that this is more of a role-playing thing, and maybe something that can be expanded upon like in Slappy's pain weapons, but it's canon in the game and I think really makes sense for the setting. I wouldn't guess the pain sensations would be as strong as normal, but they would still be there. This would also be another advantage techno-jackers have over splicers.

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Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:
I'm not sure if its possible, but if it isn't, then possible will just have to get over it.

Ninjabunny wrote:
You are playing to have fun and be a part of a story,no one is aiming to "beat" the GM, nor should any GM be looking to beat his players.

Marrowlight wrote:
The Shameless Plug would be a good new account name for you. 8-)

ALAshbaugh wrote:
Because DINOSAURS.


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 Post subject: Re: New Machine Weapons
Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:46 am
  

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Comment: "In Absentia Lucis, Tenebrae Vincunt"
Kinghawke wrote:
ffranceschi wrote:
I love NAPALM and ACID. Excellent job!


as they say in Generals Zero Hour: "I love the smell of Napalm in the morning!"


Sorry but the original quote is from Apocalypse Now, 1979.

Kilgore: Smell that? You smell that?
Lance: What?
Kilgore: Napalm, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that.
[kneels]
Kilgore: I love the smell of napalm in the morning. You know, one time we had a hill bombed, for 12 hours. When it was all over, I walked up. We didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' dink body. The smell, you know that gasoline smell, the whole hill. Smelled like
[sniffing, pondering]
Kilgore: victory. Someday this war's gonna end...

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 Post subject: Re: New Machine Weapons
Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:29 pm
  

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The Galactus Kid wrote:
Now, I would say that this is more of a role-playing thing, and maybe something that can be expanded upon like in Slappy's pain weapons, but it's canon in the game and I think really makes sense for the setting. I wouldn't guess the pain sensations would be as strong as normal, but they would still be there.


Human awareness of painful stimuli is an evolutionary necessity to avoid injury and death.

Host Armor is powerful, but it's also a living thing. While no pain on the surface seems a great benefit, there could be some consequences. Pain tells us what we should and shouldn't do. We need pain to tell us to move away from something because it is causing harm. Most people try to avoid causing pain to themselves, but it is because they have felt pain that they are able to avoid those things that initially caused the pain.

I would think there would have to be some kind of sensation, most likely unpleasent, if for nothing more than to "register" an injury and make the pilot aware. From a practical standpoint, an inability to perceive pain would be a severe danger as the character would have difficulty understanding when they are in mortal danger by way of punches, blows, burns, etc. In the real world, many people who can't feel pain rarely live past 25. A case of appendicitis could be lethal simply because they don't experience the warning signs. People suffering from CIPA (Congenital Insensitivity to Pain) must constantly check and be checked to make sure they not suffering from something they are unaware of. Because they cannot feel pain they may not respond to problems, thus being at a higher risk of more severe diseases or otherwise.

Taking this from the real world and extrapolating into Splicers, it could get ugly. A mangled weapon no longer operates at a critical moment, or a damaged leg gives out while running away. Unnoticed wounds, fractures or other damage could quickly lead to life threatening infections.

Even worse, pilots are suited up in Host Armor completely nude, I think. Or semi-nude, at least. If the Armor is "killed" or otherwise incapacitated, the squishy SDC being is now running around the battle field in the most vulnerable condition imaginable. With tech power armor, the pilot might at least have a side arm, possibly light flak jacket style armor or similar. A Host Armor pilot has nothing but a birthday suit.

The ability to feel pain would be a liability, but I'd argue it's a necessary one. To dilute it, lessen it, etc. makes sense, but to do away with it completely would be a disaster.

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 Post subject: Re: New Machine Weapons
Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:46 pm
  

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Location: Working on getting Splicers more support!!!
Comment: THE SPLICE MUST FLOW!!!
Guy_LeDouche wrote:
The Galactus Kid wrote:
Now, I would say that this is more of a role-playing thing, and maybe something that can be expanded upon like in Slappy's pain weapons, but it's canon in the game and I think really makes sense for the setting. I wouldn't guess the pain sensations would be as strong as normal, but they would still be there.


Human awareness of painful stimuli is an evolutionary necessity to avoid injury and death.

Host Armor is powerful, but it's also a living thing. While no pain on the surface seems a great benefit, there could be some consequences. Pain tells us what we should and shouldn't do. We need pain to tell us to move away from something because it is causing harm. Most people try to avoid causing pain to themselves, but it is because they have felt pain that they are able to avoid those things that initially caused the pain.

I would think there would have to be some kind of sensation, most likely unpleasent, if for nothing more than to "register" an injury and make the pilot aware. From a practical standpoint, an inability to perceive pain would be a severe danger as the character would have difficulty understanding when they are in mortal danger by way of punches, blows, burns, etc. In the real world, many people who can't feel pain rarely live past 25. A case of appendicitis could be lethal simply because they don't experience the warning signs. People suffering from CIPA (Congenital Insensitivity to Pain) must constantly check and be checked to make sure they not suffering from something they are unaware of. Because they cannot feel pain they may not respond to problems, thus being at a higher risk of more severe diseases or otherwise.

Taking this from the real world and extrapolating into Splicers, it could get ugly. A mangled weapon no longer operates at a critical moment, or a damaged leg gives out while running away. Unnoticed wounds, fractures or other damage could quickly lead to life threatening infections.

Even worse, pilots are suited up in Host Armor completely nude, I think. Or semi-nude, at least. If the Armor is "killed" or otherwise incapacitated, the squishy SDC being is now running around the battle field in the most vulnerable condition imaginable. With tech power armor, the pilot might at least have a side arm, possibly light flak jacket style armor or similar. A Host Armor pilot has nothing but a birthday suit.

The ability to feel pain would be a liability, but I'd argue it's a necessary one. To dilute it, lessen it, etc. makes sense, but to do away with it completely would be a disaster.

Agreed

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Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:
I'm not sure if its possible, but if it isn't, then possible will just have to get over it.

Ninjabunny wrote:
You are playing to have fun and be a part of a story,no one is aiming to "beat" the GM, nor should any GM be looking to beat his players.

Marrowlight wrote:
The Shameless Plug would be a good new account name for you. 8-)

ALAshbaugh wrote:
Because DINOSAURS.


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 Post subject: Re: New Machine Weapons
Unread postPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:34 am
  

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Hero

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Comment: "In Absentia Lucis, Tenebrae Vincunt"
Guy_LeDouche wrote:
Human awareness of painful stimuli is an evolutionary necessity to avoid injury and death.

Host Armor is powerful, but it's also a living thing. While no pain on the surface seems a great benefit, there could be some consequences. Pain tells us what we should and shouldn't do. We need pain to tell us to move away from something because it is causing harm. Most people try to avoid causing pain to themselves, but it is because they have felt pain that they are able to avoid those things that initially caused the pain.

I would think there would have to be some kind of sensation, most likely unpleasent, if for nothing more than to "register" an injury and make the pilot aware.


I think different. You need to have a Warning System (lights, sounds, odors, it depends on the preferences of the pilot or the model of the Host Armor) but PAIN? Come one, it is unnecessary. Imagine an F/A-18D pilot "feeling pain" because one engine flame out! Pain distracts the pilot whether she wants it or not.

_________________
Head of Northern Gun Research and Development

"I'm ready man, check it out. I am the ultimate badass! State-of-the-badass-art!" - Private Hudson, ALIENS (1986).


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 Post subject: Re: New Machine Weapons
Unread postPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:03 am
  

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Comment: THE SPLICE MUST FLOW!!!
ffranceschi wrote:
Guy_LeDouche wrote:
Human awareness of painful stimuli is an evolutionary necessity to avoid injury and death.

Host Armor is powerful, but it's also a living thing. While no pain on the surface seems a great benefit, there could be some consequences. Pain tells us what we should and shouldn't do. We need pain to tell us to move away from something because it is causing harm. Most people try to avoid causing pain to themselves, but it is because they have felt pain that they are able to avoid those things that initially caused the pain.

I would think there would have to be some kind of sensation, most likely unpleasent, if for nothing more than to "register" an injury and make the pilot aware.


I think different. You need to have a Warning System (lights, sounds, odors, it depends on the preferences of the pilot or the model of the Host Armor) but PAIN? Come one, it is unnecessary. Imagine an F/A-18D pilot "feeling pain" because one engine flame out! Pain distracts the pilot whether she wants it or not.

F/A-18D pilots aren't connected to their fighters by a neural-link cable and hundreds of nerve connections while sitting in neuolitic goo in order to become the most responsive super-soldier ever.

I'm just saying that not only does it make sense, but it fits the rugged, harsh world of Splicers perfectly.

_________________
Image
Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:
I'm not sure if its possible, but if it isn't, then possible will just have to get over it.

Ninjabunny wrote:
You are playing to have fun and be a part of a story,no one is aiming to "beat" the GM, nor should any GM be looking to beat his players.

Marrowlight wrote:
The Shameless Plug would be a good new account name for you. 8-)

ALAshbaugh wrote:
Because DINOSAURS.


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 Post subject: Re: New Machine Weapons
Unread postPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:09 am
  

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Knight

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:05 pm
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Location: Memphis, TN
The Galactus Kid wrote:
ffranceschi wrote:
Guy_LeDouche wrote:
Human awareness of painful stimuli is an evolutionary necessity to avoid injury and death.

Host Armor is powerful, but it's also a living thing. While no pain on the surface seems a great benefit, there could be some consequences. Pain tells us what we should and shouldn't do. We need pain to tell us to move away from something because it is causing harm. Most people try to avoid causing pain to themselves, but it is because they have felt pain that they are able to avoid those things that initially caused the pain.

I would think there would have to be some kind of sensation, most likely unpleasent, if for nothing more than to "register" an injury and make the pilot aware.


I think different. You need to have a Warning System (lights, sounds, odors, it depends on the preferences of the pilot or the model of the Host Armor) but PAIN? Come one, it is unnecessary. Imagine an F/A-18D pilot "feeling pain" because one engine flame out! Pain distracts the pilot whether she wants it or not.

F/A-18D pilots aren't connected to their fighters by a neural-link cable and hundreds of nerve connections while sitting in neuolitic goo in order to become the most responsive super-soldier ever.

I'm just saying that not only does it make sense, but it fits the rugged, harsh world of Splicers perfectly.


No one is arguing that feedback should not go through the neurolink, just that the intensity of it should be limited so that the pilot's performance isn't negatively impacted by it (or the fear of it).

--flatline

_________________
I don't care about canon answers. I'm interested in good, well-reasoned answers and, perhaps, a short discussion of how that answer is supported or contradicted by canon.

If I don't provide a book and page number, then don't assume that I'm describing canon. I'll tell you if I'm describing canon.


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 Post subject: Re: New Machine Weapons
Unread postPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:35 am
  

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Hero

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Location: Republic of Cordoba, Silver River Republics (Montevideo, Uruguay)
Comment: "In Absentia Lucis, Tenebrae Vincunt"
The Galactus Kid wrote:
ffranceschi wrote:
Guy_LeDouche wrote:
Human awareness of painful stimuli is an evolutionary necessity to avoid injury and death.

Host Armor is powerful, but it's also a living thing. While no pain on the surface seems a great benefit, there could be some consequences. Pain tells us what we should and shouldn't do. We need pain to tell us to move away from something because it is causing harm. Most people try to avoid causing pain to themselves, but it is because they have felt pain that they are able to avoid those things that initially caused the pain.

I would think there would have to be some kind of sensation, most likely unpleasent, if for nothing more than to "register" an injury and make the pilot aware.


I think different. You need to have a Warning System (lights, sounds, odors, it depends on the preferences of the pilot or the model of the Host Armor) but PAIN? Come one, it is unnecessary. Imagine an F/A-18D pilot "feeling pain" because one engine flame out! Pain distracts the pilot whether she wants it or not.

F/A-18D pilots aren't connected to their fighters by a neural-link cable and hundreds of nerve connections while sitting in neuolitic goo in order to become the most responsive super-soldier ever.

I'm just saying that not only does it make sense, but it fits the rugged, harsh world of Splicers perfectly.


Ok, you got me on that one.

_________________
Head of Northern Gun Research and Development

"I'm ready man, check it out. I am the ultimate badass! State-of-the-badass-art!" - Private Hudson, ALIENS (1986).


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 Post subject: Re: New Machine Weapons
Unread postPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:26 pm
  

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Explorer

Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:37 am
Posts: 123
Location: Texas
ffranceschi wrote:
The Galactus Kid wrote:
ffranceschi wrote:
Guy_LeDouche wrote:
Human awareness of painful stimuli is an evolutionary necessity to avoid injury and death.

Host Armor is powerful, but it's also a living thing. While no pain on the surface seems a great benefit, there could be some consequences. Pain tells us what we should and shouldn't do. We need pain to tell us to move away from something because it is causing harm. Most people try to avoid causing pain to themselves, but it is because they have felt pain that they are able to avoid those things that initially caused the pain.

I would think there would have to be some kind of sensation, most likely unpleasent, if for nothing more than to "register" an injury and make the pilot aware.


I think different. You need to have a Warning System (lights, sounds, odors, it depends on the preferences of the pilot or the model of the Host Armor) but PAIN? Come one, it is unnecessary. Imagine an F/A-18D pilot "feeling pain" because one engine flame out! Pain distracts the pilot whether she wants it or not.

F/A-18D pilots aren't connected to their fighters by a neural-link cable and hundreds of nerve connections while sitting in neuolitic goo in order to become the most responsive super-soldier ever.

I'm just saying that not only does it make sense, but it fits the rugged, harsh world of Splicers perfectly.


Ok, you got me on that one.



if the suits feel pain, and they feel all the sensations, there is no reason it should be any less. they would feel the equivalent of what the suit's feel. they are tougher, so they feel less pain. just do it in proportion to the damage as it would be compared to the human damage it would be in SDC if you had that much SDC to throw around, painwise. hope that makes sense.

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 Post subject: Re: New Machine Weapons
Unread postPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:33 pm
  

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Knight

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Kinghawke wrote:
ffranceschi wrote:
The Galactus Kid wrote:
ffranceschi wrote:
Guy_LeDouche wrote:
Human awareness of painful stimuli is an evolutionary necessity to avoid injury and death.

Host Armor is powerful, but it's also a living thing. While no pain on the surface seems a great benefit, there could be some consequences. Pain tells us what we should and shouldn't do. We need pain to tell us to move away from something because it is causing harm. Most people try to avoid causing pain to themselves, but it is because they have felt pain that they are able to avoid those things that initially caused the pain.

I would think there would have to be some kind of sensation, most likely unpleasent, if for nothing more than to "register" an injury and make the pilot aware.


I think different. You need to have a Warning System (lights, sounds, odors, it depends on the preferences of the pilot or the model of the Host Armor) but PAIN? Come one, it is unnecessary. Imagine an F/A-18D pilot "feeling pain" because one engine flame out! Pain distracts the pilot whether she wants it or not.

F/A-18D pilots aren't connected to their fighters by a neural-link cable and hundreds of nerve connections while sitting in neuolitic goo in order to become the most responsive super-soldier ever.

I'm just saying that not only does it make sense, but it fits the rugged, harsh world of Splicers perfectly.


Ok, you got me on that one.



if the suits feel pain, and they feel all the sensations, there is no reason it should be any less. they would feel the equivalent of what the suit's feel. they are tougher, so they feel less pain. just do it in proportion to the damage as it would be compared to the human damage it would be in SDC if you had that much SDC to throw around, painwise. hope that makes sense.


If an appendage (like a tail or extra arm) gets blown off the armor, why would you want to risk distracting or even incapacitating the pilot when he's already in a bad situation that requires all his attention?

--flatline

_________________
I don't care about canon answers. I'm interested in good, well-reasoned answers and, perhaps, a short discussion of how that answer is supported or contradicted by canon.

If I don't provide a book and page number, then don't assume that I'm describing canon. I'll tell you if I'm describing canon.


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 Post subject: Re: New Machine Weapons
Unread postPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:13 pm
  

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Comment: THE SPLICE MUST FLOW!!!
I don't play it as doing SDC damage. Personally, I play it like a downgraded pain response. This thread intrigues me and had my juices going for the future.

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Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:
I'm not sure if its possible, but if it isn't, then possible will just have to get over it.

Ninjabunny wrote:
You are playing to have fun and be a part of a story,no one is aiming to "beat" the GM, nor should any GM be looking to beat his players.

Marrowlight wrote:
The Shameless Plug would be a good new account name for you. 8-)

ALAshbaugh wrote:
Because DINOSAURS.


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 Post subject: Re: New Machine Weapons
Unread postPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:44 am
  

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What if the machine got hold of some old rpg books?


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 Post subject: Re:
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:04 am
  

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OLD ONE

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Location: Indianapolis
Comment: PROUDLY Not a member of the "Cabal of 24"
slappy wrote:
Digger Rifle

Kali hates how Bio-Tech devices like Host Armor have made the humans bold on the battlefield. They feel invincible beneath their thick suits of living armor, so Kali wanted a weapon that would remind them of how fragile they truly are. This enormous rifle fires robotic rounds that are programmed to burrow into their target and detonate once they reach the pilot within. Kali actually armed these micro-missiles with a low-grade S.D.C. explosive to maximize pain rather than lethality. It seems her sadistic side would not allow her to use more powerful explosives. Some of the more militaristic N.E.X.U.S. personalities like the basic design and are considering upping their destructive power, but Kali considers the weapon perfect just the way it is. The main drawback of the rifle is the time and resources required to build each round. The expense of manufacturing Digger ammunition has kept the supply low.
Weight: 30 lbs. fully loaded
Horror Factor: 13
M.D.C. of the Weapon: 100 M.D.C. for the rifle.
Mega-Damage: The initial impact from the Digger Round inflicts 4D6 M.D. Once the projectile hits the target, it starts burrowing through its prey until it reaches the pilot inside. It takes one melee round to dig through Living Armor and two melee rounds to burrow through Host Armor. The round inflicts 3D6 M.D. per melee round as it hunts for the human within. Once it finds the pilot, it detonates, inflicting 8D6 S.D.C.
Rate of Fire: Equal to the number of attacks per melee.
Maximum Effective Range: 2000 feet
Payload: 20 rounds
Trade Cost: None, except to a Technojacker who can use such weapons.
Something I just now thought of years later, would the regeneration of a suit of Host Armor destroy the round? Expel it? Cause it to prematurely ... explode?

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:08 am
  

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Comment: THE SPLICE MUST FLOW!!!
NMI wrote:
slappy wrote:
Digger Rifle

Kali hates how Bio-Tech devices like Host Armor have made the humans bold on the battlefield. They feel invincible beneath their thick suits of living armor, so Kali wanted a weapon that would remind them of how fragile they truly are. This enormous rifle fires robotic rounds that are programmed to burrow into their target and detonate once they reach the pilot within. Kali actually armed these micro-missiles with a low-grade S.D.C. explosive to maximize pain rather than lethality. It seems her sadistic side would not allow her to use more powerful explosives. Some of the more militaristic N.E.X.U.S. personalities like the basic design and are considering upping their destructive power, but Kali considers the weapon perfect just the way it is. The main drawback of the rifle is the time and resources required to build each round. The expense of manufacturing Digger ammunition has kept the supply low.
Weight: 30 lbs. fully loaded
Horror Factor: 13
M.D.C. of the Weapon: 100 M.D.C. for the rifle.
Mega-Damage: The initial impact from the Digger Round inflicts 4D6 M.D. Once the projectile hits the target, it starts burrowing through its prey until it reaches the pilot inside. It takes one melee round to dig through Living Armor and two melee rounds to burrow through Host Armor. The round inflicts 3D6 M.D. per melee round as it hunts for the human within. Once it finds the pilot, it detonates, inflicting 8D6 S.D.C.
Rate of Fire: Equal to the number of attacks per melee.
Maximum Effective Range: 2000 feet
Payload: 20 rounds
Trade Cost: None, except to a Technojacker who can use such weapons.
Something I just now thought of years later, would the regeneration of a suit of Host Armor destroy the round? Expel it? Cause it to prematurely ... explode?

I think it would depend on a number of factors:
1) What level of regeneration the suit has.
2) If the pilot can grab the rouns and pull it out
3) Acid Blood. I think this one is missed regularly, but the capability to dissolve metal renders the dangers of this item and other basic battlefield problems, like shrapnel, impotent.

_________________
Image
Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:
I'm not sure if its possible, but if it isn't, then possible will just have to get over it.

Ninjabunny wrote:
You are playing to have fun and be a part of a story,no one is aiming to "beat" the GM, nor should any GM be looking to beat his players.

Marrowlight wrote:
The Shameless Plug would be a good new account name for you. 8-)

ALAshbaugh wrote:
Because DINOSAURS.


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 Post subject: Re: New Machine Weapons
Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:16 am
  

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Comment: I hope Odin allows me to stand with him at the time of Ragnarök!
Digger Rifle is an awesome Idea, yet some kind of dexterity saving throw is needed to dig out the round and perhaps the movement of the round & pain give the pilot motivation to exit the armor quickly. The SDC damage seems way to high as if a suit ever took 2-3 rounds none inside could survive, and popping out in hostile area not a great option.

I think horn defense should have a small chance of damaging the round say 15%.

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