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 Post subject: Malvoren in Splicers?
Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:56 pm
  

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I'm assuming a rifted in Malvoren would be totally screwed by the nano-plague. Unless...can they be technojackers?

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Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:04 pm
  

Palladin

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hmmm... well, they might be natural technojackers, as i understand it that kinda is their schtick. they might also be "not human" enough to not trigger the nanoplague... last i recall, the nanoplague is less likely to work on most mammals, and very unlikely to work on other kinds of creatures. this of course means the GM has to decide just how close to human a malvoren is, but in any event that's two possible ways that a malvoren could get by just fine (though i suppose the latter won't last forever if the machine decides to consider malvoren a threat worth reprogramming the nanoplague for... unlikely for one, but if there are enough of them to pose a serious threat, almost guaranteed to happen i suppose).


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Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:51 am
  

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Considering what legion can already do... the idea of her getting her hands on a number of Malvoren as well... I'd just hope the GM doesn't ask me what I'd do with access to a Malvoren. Oh the terrors a house could make.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:35 pm
  

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LostOne wrote:
I'm assuming a rifted in Malvoren would be totally screwed by the nano-plague. Unless...can they be technojackers?


&

SharkForce wrote:
hmmm... well, they might be natural technojackers, as i understand it that kinda is their schtick. they might also be "not human" enough to not trigger the nanoplague... last i recall, the nanoplague is less likely to work on most mammals, and very unlikely to work on other kinds of creatures. this of course means the GM has to decide just how close to human a malvoren is, but in any event that's two possible ways that a malvoren could get by just fine (though i suppose the latter won't last forever if the machine decides to consider malvoren a threat worth reprogramming the nanoplague for... unlikely for one, but if there are enough of them to pose a serious threat, almost guaranteed to happen i suppose).



SPLICERS RPG page 11 - Game Mechanics for handling the Nanobot Plague

" In fact, it will react to contact with any mammal - human, ape, dog, cat, horse, rat, etc. - with the same deadly consequences."

I also recommend reading Page 13, Crossing Dimensions.

If your GM converts you into a Technojacker, that would be the safest and easiest manner to handle it, though I recommend it not be a racial (R.C.C.) conversion. I also recommend that if it happens via a Rift, that it be done "slightly" offworld (in nearby space/orbit) and it ends up with you crashing onto the Splicers world as there is no magic (its a magic dead zone and I.S.P. cost double for psionics) on the Splicers planet to support a true rift being generated on the planet.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:40 pm
  

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Premier wrote:
If your GM converts you into a Technojacker, that would be the safest and easiest manner to handle it, though I recommend it not be a racial (R.C.C.) conversion. I also recommend that if it happens via a Rift, that it be done "slightly" offworld (in nearby space/orbit) and it ends up with you crashing onto the Splicers world as there is no magic (its a magic dead zone and I.S.P. cost double for psionics) on the Splicers planet to support a true rift being generated on the planet.

Thanks. I was thinking just the nano armor and immunity to the nanoplague. The rest he does fine enough as a Malvoren or doesn't fit the warrior mentality (mechanic =/= warrior).

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Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:25 pm
  

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Premier wrote:
If your GM converts you into a Technojacker, that would be the safest and easiest manner to handle it, though I recommend it not be a racial (R.C.C.) conversion. I also recommend that if it happens via a Rift, that it be done "slightly" offworld (in nearby space/orbit) and it ends up with you crashing onto the Splicers world as there is no magic (its a magic dead zone and I.S.P. cost double for psionics) on the Splicers planet to support a true rift being generated on the planet.

While "the Splicers world is something of an anti-magi environment" (page167) it is not a dead zone, nor is there no magic, just low magic.
Which while it would make getting back a very difficult challenge (assuming you do not have a Shifter with you) it would do nothing to hinder getting to the world in the first place. That is because the Rift spell is cast in the other world and uses that worlds magic for the casting. This is demonstrated by the fact that you use situational modifiers from where it is cast to calculate the spell and ignore those of where you are going unless they are explicitly noted as appying. As there is no note about a penalty to rifting to the world there shouldn't be one unless an individual GM chooses to add one for their game.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:21 am
  

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Considering what legion can already do... the idea of her getting her hands on a number of Malvoren as well... I'd just hope the GM doesn't ask me what I'd do with access to a Malvoren. Oh the terrors a house could make.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:46 am
  

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Those dbees are not mammals. They are safe from the nanoplague.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:41 pm
  

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TechnoGothic wrote:
Those dbees are not mammals. They are safe from the nanoplague.


Well it depends on what you classify the Malvoren under:

Quote:
"Cybernetic Bio-Systems are not affected by the plague because they are, in effect, organic. Likewise, intelligent beings who are not mammalian or similar organic life forms - i.e., silicon/rock or plant/vegetation beings - do not trigger the plague reaction and can use metal devices and salvaged metal weapons and parts. All others, however, including Deevils, demons, dragons, Faerie Folk, lizard Men, Dog Boys, and most other flesh and blood beings will trigger the hostile response of the nanobot plague. Even Xiticix and other insectoids activate the plague, though it takes hours of pro-longed exposure (turn minutes into hours, seconds into minutes) before that happens."

- Splicers RPG, page 13 under the Crossing Dimensions section

Now reading the Malvoren physical description in Rifts: D-Bees of North America, page 139:

Quote:
"Malvoren are tall, muscular humanoids with small, black eyes that glow red then white in combat. They have no skin, and are composed of tendrils or cords of dark red muscle tissue. They have no visible mouth, nose or ears (they are concealed by the muscle cords that wrap around the entire body, including the head and face), but they do need to eat, breathe and sleep as any other moral being."


Being that these are creatures composed of living "muscle tissue," I would reckon that they are susceptible to the nanobot plague, even if the reaction is delayed.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:25 pm
  

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Premier wrote:
TechnoGothic wrote:
Those dbees are not mammals. They are safe from the nanoplague.


Well it depends on what you classify the Malvoren under:

Quote:
"Cybernetic Bio-Systems are not affected by the plague because they are, in effect, organic. Likewise, intelligent beings who are not mammalian or similar organic life forms - i.e., silicon/rock or plant/vegetation beings - do not trigger the plague reaction and can use metal devices and salvaged metal weapons and parts. All others, however, including Deevils, demons, dragons, Faerie Folk, lizard Men, Dog Boys, and most other flesh and blood beings will trigger the hostile response of the nanobot plague. Even Xiticix and other insectoids activate the plague, though it takes hours of pro-longed exposure (turn minutes into hours, seconds into minutes) before that happens."

- Splicers RPG, page 13 under the Crossing Dimensions section

Now reading the Malvoren physical description in Rifts: D-Bees of North America, page 139:

Quote:
"Malvoren are tall, muscular humanoids with small, black eyes that glow red then white in combat. They have no skin, and are composed of tendrils or cords of dark red muscle tissue. They have no visible mouth, nose or ears (they are concealed by the muscle cords that wrap around the entire body, including the head and face), but they do need to eat, breathe and sleep as any other moral being."


Being that these are creatures composed of living "muscle tissue," I would reckon that they are susceptible to the nanobot plague, even if the reaction is delayed.


i would agree in principle, but the malvoren in particular have an ability to control technology, so i would make them an exception.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:41 pm
  

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eliakon wrote:
Premier wrote:
If your GM converts you into a Technojacker, that would be the safest and easiest manner to handle it, though I recommend it not be a racial (R.C.C.) conversion. I also recommend that if it happens via a Rift, that it be done "slightly" offworld (in nearby space/orbit) and it ends up with you crashing onto the Splicers world as there is no magic (its a magic dead zone and I.S.P. cost double for psionics) on the Splicers planet to support a true rift being generated on the planet.

While "the Splicers world is something of an anti-magi environment" (page167) it is not a dead zone, nor is there no magic, just low magic.
Which while it would make getting back a very difficult challenge (assuming you do not have a Shifter with you) it would do nothing to hinder getting to the world in the first place. That is because the Rift spell is cast in the other world and uses that worlds magic for the casting. This is demonstrated by the fact that you use situational modifiers from where it is cast to calculate the spell and ignore those of where you are going unless they are explicitly noted as appying. As there is no note about a penalty to rifting to the world there shouldn't be one unless an individual GM chooses to add one for their game.


My summary stands corrected (only to a slight degree), as it is dubbed a "mystical dead zone" which derived from the same page that you cited.
Page 167
Quote:
Furthermore, Splicers is a hard-edged science fiction setting where magic does not exist and psychic abilities are a rarity.


Quote:
Magical Characters. Magic does NOT exist in the Splicers setting. More than that, the Splicers world is something of an anti-magic environment. Ley lines are nonexistent, and the practice of magic and mystic energy (P.P.E.) are unknown quantities. This means magic-based characters appearing from an alien world (like Rifts Earth) can barely function in the Splicers environment. Available P.P.E. to work their magic is limited to the mage's permanent P.P.E. base at half the usual level. Furthermore, all effects, range, duration, and damage function at half their usual power level, while P.P.E. cost is double and recovery of spent P.P.E. takes three times longer than normal to get back, even via meditation.
Creatures of magic, such as Faerie Folk and dragons, suffer the same penalties as above, and find the Splicers world to be a frightening mystical dead zone where they feel weak and vulnerable. No matter how long they stay in this world, they will never adapt, and constantly feel on edge and paranoid. Consequently, the few who happen upon this place by accident or via exploration of the Megaverse, usually leave within a matter of a few days,even within a few hours, after arrival. To say creatures of magic feel uncomfortable here is an understatement. They suffer from a constant sense of emptiness and helplessness at the very center of their being. These feelings are so painful and pervasive that they often drive magical beings who get trapped in this environment insane or to suicide. Most demons and supernatural beings feel the same as creatures of magic and want nothing more than to leave this mystical dead zone as quickly as possible.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:23 pm
  

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Shark_Force wrote:
Premier wrote:
TechnoGothic wrote:
Those dbees are not mammals. They are safe from the nanoplague.


Well it depends on what you classify the Malvoren under:

Quote:
"Cybernetic Bio-Systems are not affected by the plague because they are, in effect, organic. Likewise, intelligent beings who are not mammalian or similar organic life forms - i.e., silicon/rock or plant/vegetation beings - do not trigger the plague reaction and can use metal devices and salvaged metal weapons and parts. All others, however, including Deevils, demons, dragons, Faerie Folk, lizard Men, Dog Boys, and most other flesh and blood beings will trigger the hostile response of the nanobot plague. Even Xiticix and other insectoids activate the plague, though it takes hours of pro-longed exposure (turn minutes into hours, seconds into minutes) before that happens."

- Splicers RPG, page 13 under the Crossing Dimensions section

Now reading the Malvoren physical description in Rifts: D-Bees of North America, page 139:

Quote:
"Malvoren are tall, muscular humanoids with small, black eyes that glow red then white in combat. They have no skin, and are composed of tendrils or cords of dark red muscle tissue. They have no visible mouth, nose or ears (they are concealed by the muscle cords that wrap around the entire body, including the head and face), but they do need to eat, breathe and sleep as any other moral being."


Being that Malvoren are creatures composed of living "muscle tissue," I would reckon that they are susceptible to the nanobot plague, even if the reaction is delayed.


i would agree in principle, but the malvoren in particular have an ability to control technology, so i would make them an exception.


I would not make all Malvoren automatic Technojackers as there is more at play than some automatically inherited genetic/racial ability to manipulate "machine" technology. According to Splicers RPG, page 164, Technojackers have their own battery of altered nanobots that enable their abilities and protects them from the nanobot plague reaction. To our knowledge all Technojackers derive from humans as a species, yet only 1% of humans are Technojackers. It is through their use and manipulation of their altered Nanobots that TJs are capable of the things they do. Malvoren once exposed to the Splicers atmosphere will be contending with the same infected metal and its nanobot plague reactions towards living tissue and flesh, as anything living thing consisting of flesh and blood that is introduced to the Splicers setting must also contend with.

The easiest way (IMHO) to avoid complications is to gift the specific Malvoren player as a "Technojacker," or gift him with some of the TJ abilities. Rather it is through Eve or some other N.E.X.U.S. Personality using the player as an experiment, its up to the GM.

However, automatically gifting any imported race all of its technological melding abilities does not override the reaction of the highly infectious nanobot plague that is located within all metals (minus precious metals) and the nanobots' reaction to any living tissue in which that alien species is composed of. If the Malvoren have some sort of defense or immunity to such infectious nanobots than that is a different story and I stand corrected. But if they don't have any bio-defenses against the Splicers nanobots then that would make them also susceptible to the nanobot plague reaction upon prolonged contact, unless the GM conjures up something otherwise. I equate this to a species melding with poisonous technology and that species has no immunity and defenses for the poison (the nanobots being the poison in this case).

Heck, if the Crazies have something "odd" that protects them with a new penalty, then I don't see why something specific for the Malvoren couldn't be devised. The key is something needs to be devised by the GM to address the nanobot plague that the Malvoren(s) will be exposed to in order to make it gel.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:59 pm
  

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Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Premier wrote:
eliakon wrote:
Premier wrote:
If your GM converts you into a Technojacker, that would be the safest and easiest manner to handle it, though I recommend it not be a racial (R.C.C.) conversion. I also recommend that if it happens via a Rift, that it be done "slightly" offworld (in nearby space/orbit) and it ends up with you crashing onto the Splicers world as there is no magic (its a magic dead zone and I.S.P. cost double for psionics) on the Splicers planet to support a true rift being generated on the planet.

While "the Splicers world is something of an anti-magi environment" (page167) it is not a dead zone, nor is there no magic, just low magic.
Which while it would make getting back a very difficult challenge (assuming you do not have a Shifter with you) it would do nothing to hinder getting to the world in the first place. That is because the Rift spell is cast in the other world and uses that worlds magic for the casting. This is demonstrated by the fact that you use situational modifiers from where it is cast to calculate the spell and ignore those of where you are going unless they are explicitly noted as appying. As there is no note about a penalty to rifting to the world there shouldn't be one unless an individual GM chooses to add one for their game.


My summary stands corrected (only to a slight degree), as it is dubbed a "mystical dead zone" which derived from the same page that you cited.
Page 167
Quote:
Furthermore, Splicers is a hard-edged science fiction setting where magic does not exist and psychic abilities are a rarity.


Quote:
Magical Characters. Magic does NOT exist in the Splicers setting. More than that, the Splicers world is something of an anti-magic environment. Ley lines are nonexistent, and the practice of magic and mystic energy (P.P.E.) are unknown quantities. This means magic-based characters appearing from an alien world (like Rifts Earth) can barely function in the Splicers environment. Available P.P.E. to work their magic is limited to the mage's permanent P.P.E. base at half the usual level. Furthermore, all effects, range, duration, and damage function at half their usual power level, while P.P.E. cost is double and recovery of spent P.P.E. takes three times longer than normal to get back, even via meditation.
Creatures of magic, such as Faerie Folk and dragons, suffer the same penalties as above, and find the Splicers world to be a frightening mystical dead zone where they feel weak and vulnerable. No matter how long they stay in this world, they will never adapt, and constantly feel on edge and paranoid. Consequently, the few who happen upon this place by accident or via exploration of the Megaverse, usually leave within a matter of a few days,even within a few hours, after arrival. To say creatures of magic feel uncomfortable here is an understatement. They suffer from a constant sense of emptiness and helplessness at the very center of their being. These feelings are so painful and pervasive that they often drive magical beings who get trapped in this environment insane or to suicide. Most demons and supernatural beings feel the same as creatures of magic and want nothing more than to leave this mystical dead zone as quickly as possible.

Yes the setting as written is a soft sci-fi setting true. And as such it does not have magic in it as a native feature.
But if the game is crossed over and magic is brought over then at that point magic does exist and as such the rules for magic that are in the core rule book itself are followed.
If the setting was a true non-magic setting then the rules would state exactly that. Instead we are told flat out how magic works in the setting.

To remove magic entirely from the universe and make it a magic null zone will require an official source material being published that retcons the setting and removes the functioning of magic in it. Otherwise having it be a total magic dead zone is simply a house rule that a GM rule zero's into their game.

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Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


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Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:26 pm
  

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eliakon wrote:
Premier wrote:
eliakon wrote:
Premier wrote:
If your GM converts you into a Technojacker, that would be the safest and easiest manner to handle it, though I recommend it not be a racial (R.C.C.) conversion. I also recommend that if it happens via a Rift, that it be done "slightly" offworld (in nearby space/orbit) and it ends up with you crashing onto the Splicers world as there is no magic (its a magic dead zone and I.S.P. cost double for psionics) on the Splicers planet to support a true rift being generated on the planet.

While "the Splicers world is something of an anti-magi environment" (page167) it is not a dead zone, nor is there no magic, just low magic.
Which while it would make getting back a very difficult challenge (assuming you do not have a Shifter with you) it would do nothing to hinder getting to the world in the first place. That is because the Rift spell is cast in the other world and uses that worlds magic for the casting. This is demonstrated by the fact that you use situational modifiers from where it is cast to calculate the spell and ignore those of where you are going unless they are explicitly noted as appying. As there is no note about a penalty to rifting to the world there shouldn't be one unless an individual GM chooses to add one for their game.


My summary stands corrected (only to a slight degree), as it is dubbed a "mystical dead zone" which derived from the same page that you cited.
Page 167
Quote:
Furthermore, Splicers is a hard-edged science fiction setting where magic does not exist and psychic abilities are a rarity.


Quote:
Magical Characters. Magic does NOT exist in the Splicers setting. More than that, the Splicers world is something of an anti-magic environment. Ley lines are nonexistent, and the practice of magic and mystic energy (P.P.E.) are unknown quantities. This means magic-based characters appearing from an alien world (like Rifts Earth) can barely function in the Splicers environment. Available P.P.E. to work their magic is limited to the mage's permanent P.P.E. base at half the usual level. Furthermore, all effects, range, duration, and damage function at half their usual power level, while P.P.E. cost is double and recovery of spent P.P.E. takes three times longer than normal to get back, even via meditation.
Creatures of magic, such as Faerie Folk and dragons, suffer the same penalties as above, and find the Splicers world to be a frightening mystical dead zone where they feel weak and vulnerable. No matter how long they stay in this world, they will never adapt, and constantly feel on edge and paranoid. Consequently, the few who happen upon this place by accident or via exploration of the Megaverse, usually leave within a matter of a few days,even within a few hours, after arrival. To say creatures of magic feel uncomfortable here is an understatement. They suffer from a constant sense of emptiness and helplessness at the very center of their being. These feelings are so painful and pervasive that they often drive magical beings who get trapped in this environment insane or to suicide. Most demons and supernatural beings feel the same as creatures of magic and want nothing more than to leave this mystical dead zone as quickly as possible.

Yes the setting as written is a soft sci-fi setting true. And as such it does not have magic in it as a native feature.
But if the game is crossed over and magic is brought over then at that point magic does exist and as such the rules for magic that are in the core rule book itself are followed.
If the setting was a true non-magic setting then the rules would state exactly that. Instead we are told flat out how magic works in the setting.

To remove magic entirely from the universe and make it a magic null zone will require an official source material being published that retcons the setting and removes the functioning of magic in it. Otherwise having it be a total magic dead zone is simply a house rule that a GM rule zero's into their game.


Eliakon, I understand what your saying and agree on the cross-over portion of your statement. The very act of crossing over foreign material from another gameline into this one means that it is becoming something different or anew and not the same as the core "native" setting.

Now as to the setting being a true non-magic setting, that is a different story as the book clearly states twice on page 167 that the Splicers setting does not have magic.
Example A on Page 167:
Quote:
Furthermore, Splicers is a hard-edged science fiction setting where magic does not exist and psychic abilities are a rarity.


Example B also on page 167
Quote:
Magical Characters. Magic does NOT exist in the Splicers setting.


Now the fact that conversion rules were provided within the Splicers RPG book to enable Palladium Books players that play other PB gamelines to import their non-Splicers characters into the Splicers setting is simply that, conversion rules from one gameline setting into another. Conversion rules however, do not equate to being cannon material within the Splicers setting, they are mere conversions.

The very word of crossover means "an instance of breaking into another category." We are no longer bound to the core setting of Splicers as we are enabling other or new categories. That enables Rifts, Fantasy, Mechanoids, Dead Reign, Heroes Unlimited or even Robotech material to be imported by a Game Master for their campaign, but such importations would not ever be considered as OFFICIAL setting material for the core Splicers RPG. That is why the header for this very section is titled "Characters from other Palladium Games." Clearly that denotes, other settings/gamelines outside of the official Splicers and not within. It is simply placed here so that you can enjoy your own home-brewed blending of the various Palladium Books gamelines "if" you choose to. That doesn't mean that such imports are officially part of the Splicers RPG setting.

The very next paragraph sums up why this section of conversions was placed here.

Quote:
Being a Mega-Damage setting, it seems inevitable that players may consider "importing" Rifts (or Mechanoid Space) characters into Splicers. That's fine, Palladium's games are deliberately designed with one basic game system so players and Game Masters can port characters, equipment and concepts from any (or all) of our games into each other. However, Splicers is such a unique setting that bringing in just any character might lessen its unique flavor. Furthermore, Splicers is a hard-edged science fiction setting where magic does not exist and psychic abilities are a rarity.


In which it continues with "Limitations and Notes on Imported Characters:"

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Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:36 pm
  

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As to the OP regarding the Malvoren, the very fact that it is an extraterrestrial being that is not native to the Splicers setting, means we are discussing a modified Splicers setting and not the core setting. So I was seeking a way to assist Lost One's concept without breaking the setting for their campaign.

So based on what we can reference about the D-bee species, the Malvoren are creatures of living tissue (corded flesh) and without any indications of them having some natural defense mechanism against a highly infectious and invasive form of nanobots that is constantly produced and spread throughout the entire Splicers planet. It is most likely that Malvorens like most newly introduced species, once exposed to the nanobots would also be susceptible to the nanobot plague reaction, unless gifted by the designers of the nanobot plague (N.E.X.U.S.) to be deemed otherwise.

Page 167
Quote:
Tech Characters who rely on machines. The first obstacle visitors from another world must overcome is the Nanobot Plague. Since most people on other worlds rely heavily on metal and technological devices, a few minutes after appearing on the Splicers world, they are likely to be murdered by their own power armor, body armor, vehicle, weapons or equipment. Those who survive this unexpected onslaught are likely to find themselves stripped of most of the weapons and gear they rely on to survive - and possibly the equipment which they had expected to use to return home!


I simply recommended that his "imported" Malvoren character be an exception/experiment via a Machine Personality and not a racial/total species ruling as N.E.X.U.S. has not done so with any other living species, historically speaking.

1. Technojackers are only 1% of the human race.
2. Even Gaia's obsessed love for wildlife does not protect any of her wildlife species from the nanobot plague reaction.

So why would an entire alien species that (to our knowledge) does not have any major bio-defenses against a microscopic, hostile nanobot plague that is invasive and spread everywhere throughout the planet and its technology, be automatically immune to a foreign nanobot system that hit has not previously encountered until now? I could easily see Eve or Gaia doing this with the right incentive or motives. Gaia might do it, as she is studying the alien species and trying to identify it and preserve its unique rare traits. Perhaps she is studying it and hoping to learn more about its capabilities and therefore does not want this new, one-of-a-kind "alien predator/species" to be prematurely killed by the nanobots before she has had a chance to properly analyze and study it. or at least capture it or obtain viable DNA samples. Perhaps the longer the Malvoren remains in the company of the abomination Splicers, perhaps the further she begins to assess that the Malvoren is some new type of Splicer creation and she plans on removing the protective nanobots if it continues to work with Splicers. Perhaps Gaia and Eve reach out to the Malvoren character when it is alone to try to learn more about it, where it comes from and what it's agendas are. This could be a nice campaign where even the Splicers are highly suspicious and suspect that the Malvoren could be a new machine trick. Heck if they are so distrusting of Technojackers (their historical freedom fighters that saved humanity), surely a wormy alien being that also melds with metal technology is not going to be easily accepted among Splicers society. It might even be hunted. So I would definitely recommend that the Player character be up for some serious challenges from all factions.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:06 pm
  

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Palladin

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Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Premier wrote:
As to the OP regarding the Malvoren, the very fact that it is an extraterrestrial being that is not native to the Splicers setting, means we are discussing a modified Splicers setting and not the core setting. So I was seeking a way to assist Lost One's concept without breaking the setting for their campaign.

So based on what we can reference about the D-bee species, the Malvoren are creatures of living tissue (corded flesh) and without any indications of them having some natural defense mechanism against a highly infectious and invasive form of nanobots that is constantly produced and spread throughout the entire Splicers planet. It is most likely that Malvorens like most newly introduced species, once exposed to the nanobots would also be susceptible to the nanobot plague reaction, unless gifted by the designers of the nanobot plague (N.E.X.U.S.) to be deemed otherwise.

Page 167
Quote:
Tech Characters who rely on machines. The first obstacle visitors from another world must overcome is the Nanobot Plague. Since most people on other worlds rely heavily on metal and technological devices, a few minutes after appearing on the Splicers world, they are likely to be murdered by their own power armor, body armor, vehicle, weapons or equipment. Those who survive this unexpected onslaught are likely to find themselves stripped of most of the weapons and gear they rely on to survive - and possibly the equipment which they had expected to use to return home!


I simply recommended that his "imported" Malvoren character be an exception/experiment via a Machine Personality and not a racial/total species ruling as N.E.X.U.S. has not done so with any other living species, historically speaking.

1. Technojackers are only 1% of the human race.
2. Even Gaia's obsessed love for wildlife does not protect any of her wildlife species from the nanobot plague reaction.

So why would an entire alien species that (to our knowledge) does not have any major bio-defenses against a microscopic, hostile nanobot plague that is invasive and spread everywhere throughout the planet and its technology, be automatically immune to a foreign nanobot system that hit has not previously encountered until now? I could easily see Eve or Gaia doing this with the right incentive or motives. Gaia might do it, as she is studying the alien species and trying to identify it and preserve its unique rare traits. Perhaps she is studying it and hoping to learn more about its capabilities and therefore does not want this new, one-of-a-kind "alien predator/species" to be prematurely killed by the nanobots before she has had a chance to properly analyze and study it. or at least capture it or obtain viable DNA samples. Perhaps the longer the Malvoren remains in the company of the abomination Splicers, perhaps the further she begins to assess that the Malvoren is some new type of Splicer creation and she plans on removing the protective nanobots if it continues to work with Splicers. Perhaps Gaia and Eve reach out to the Malvoren character when it is alone to try to learn more about it, where it comes from and what it's agendas are. This could be a nice campaign where even the Splicers are highly suspicious and suspect that the Malvoren could be a new machine trick. Heck if they are so distrusting of Technojackers (their historical freedom fighters that saved humanity), surely a wormy alien being that also melds with metal technology is not going to be easily accepted among Splicers society. It might even be hunted. So I would definitely recommend that the Player character be up for some serious challenges from all factions.

I would have to side with the idea that a Malvoran is going to simply assimilate the nanites just like a Technojacker does.
I mean that is their races entire thing... they absorb and link up with any technology that they touch. And it doesn't say "except for nanites" Thus I think we can safely say that they do indeed have a natural defense/immunity to the plague... in that the nanites will become their minions as soon as they get in contact with a Malvoran instead of triggering.

Thus logically, unless the plague has some special ability to be immune to machine controlling powers that has never been stated before (like say it was really Elder Race tech or something) then the presumption would be... it isn't immune. Especially since the write up on dimensional crossing does not say that any of the various tech based powers/spells/psionics do not function on the nanites.

Now sure, a GM can choose to do what ever they want in their game. But I just can't see any sort of rules precedent in the material as published so far that the nanoplague is immune to machine control powers.

As for the paranoia? Yea sure, its going to be hard to survive... but that's because the entire splicer world is full of people so paranoid that literally every single house is working for the machines (I mean lets face it... yes, they are. Since the only people that can do *anything* about that mythical 'kill code' are the technojackers that they shun and basically throw to the wolves... then yes, they are actively making sure that the one weapon that might someday actually help them win is worthless and can never be used... that right there basically assures the Machines eventual victory barring some sort of planetary destruction. When of course they are not killing each other off that is...) I don't expect that anyone visiting is going to have a better time of it. Most people would probably do their level best to leave as quickly as possible. Possibly to return to properly sterilize the planet later.

_________________
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


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Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:30 pm
  

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eliakon wrote:
Premier wrote:
As to the OP regarding the Malvoren, the very fact that it is an extraterrestrial being that is not native to the Splicers setting, means we are discussing a modified Splicers setting and not the core setting. So I was seeking a way to assist Lost One's concept without breaking the setting for their campaign.

So based on what we can reference about the D-bee species, the Malvoren are creatures of living tissue (corded flesh) and without any indications of them having some natural defense mechanism against a highly infectious and invasive form of nanobots that is constantly produced and spread throughout the entire Splicers planet. It is most likely that Malvorens like most newly introduced species, once exposed to the nanobots would also be susceptible to the nanobot plague reaction, unless gifted by the designers of the nanobot plague (N.E.X.U.S.) to be deemed otherwise.

Page 167
Quote:
Tech Characters who rely on machines. The first obstacle visitors from another world must overcome is the Nanobot Plague. Since most people on other worlds rely heavily on metal and technological devices, a few minutes after appearing on the Splicers world, they are likely to be murdered by their own power armor, body armor, vehicle, weapons or equipment. Those who survive this unexpected onslaught are likely to find themselves stripped of most of the weapons and gear they rely on to survive - and possibly the equipment which they had expected to use to return home!


I simply recommended that his "imported" Malvoren character be an exception/experiment via a Machine Personality and not a racial/total species ruling as N.E.X.U.S. has not done so with any other living species, historically speaking.

1. Technojackers are only 1% of the human race.
2. Even Gaia's obsessed love for wildlife does not protect any of her wildlife species from the nanobot plague reaction.

So why would an entire alien species that (to our knowledge) does not have any major bio-defenses against a microscopic, hostile nanobot plague that is invasive and spread everywhere throughout the planet and its technology, be automatically immune to a foreign nanobot system that hit has not previously encountered until now? I could easily see Eve or Gaia doing this with the right incentive or motives. Gaia might do it, as she is studying the alien species and trying to identify it and preserve its unique rare traits. Perhaps she is studying it and hoping to learn more about its capabilities and therefore does not want this new, one-of-a-kind "alien predator/species" to be prematurely killed by the nanobots before she has had a chance to properly analyze and study it. or at least capture it or obtain viable DNA samples. Perhaps the longer the Malvoren remains in the company of the abomination Splicers, perhaps the further she begins to assess that the Malvoren is some new type of Splicer creation and she plans on removing the protective nanobots if it continues to work with Splicers. Perhaps Gaia and Eve reach out to the Malvoren character when it is alone to try to learn more about it, where it comes from and what it's agendas are. This could be a nice campaign where even the Splicers are highly suspicious and suspect that the Malvoren could be a new machine trick. Heck if they are so distrusting of Technojackers (their historical freedom fighters that saved humanity), surely a wormy alien being that also melds with metal technology is not going to be easily accepted among Splicers society. It might even be hunted. So I would definitely recommend that the Player character be up for some serious challenges from all factions.

I would have to side with the idea that a Malvoran is going to simply assimilate the nanites just like a Technojacker does.
I mean that is their races entire thing... they absorb and link up with any technology that they touch. And it doesn't say "except for nanites" Thus I think we can safely say that they do indeed have a natural defense/immunity to the plague... in that the nanites will become their minions as soon as they get in contact with a Malvoran instead of triggering.

Thus logically, unless the plague has some special ability to be immune to machine controlling powers that has never been stated before (like say it was really Elder Race tech or something) then the presumption would be... it isn't immune. Especially since the write up on dimensional crossing does not say that any of the various tech based powers/spells/psionics do not function on the nanites.

Now sure, a GM can choose to do what ever they want in their game. But I just can't see any sort of rules precedent in the material as published so far that the nanoplague is immune to machine control powers.

As for the paranoia? Yea sure, its going to be hard to survive... but that's because the entire splicer world is full of people so paranoid that literally every single house is working for the machines (I mean lets face it... yes, they are. Since the only people that can do *anything* about that mythical 'kill code' are the technojackers that they shun and basically throw to the wolves... then yes, they are actively making sure that the one weapon that might someday actually help them win is worthless and can never be used... that right there basically assures the Machines eventual victory barring some sort of planetary destruction. When of course they are not killing each other off that is...) I don't expect that anyone visiting is going to have a better time of it. Most people would probably do their level best to leave as quickly as possible. Possibly to return to properly sterilize the planet later.


I think it is a broad stretch to assume that simply because a being has a natural ability to do something that they are exempt or can automatically override or adapt to anything that involves that natural ability. The human body can consume and digest foods and liquids naturally, but it doesn't mean the human body us automatically immune to everything it intakes. Let alone foreign or poisonous substances.

For the Malvoren, there is nothing​ currently written that implies that they have any microscopic defenses against infected/hostile technology from an alien/foreign world that they have not encountered​ before. What we do know however, is that the race is composed of living corded tissues(flesh) in which invokes the nano-bot plague upon prolonged contact. And "If" the Malvoren have nano-bots of their own, that doesn't mean their nano-bots are capable of overriding N.E.X.U.S. nano-bots. Please notice the pattern of avoidance that Palladium has taken in the past when it comes down to microscopic or bio warfare. I brought this up some time ago, wondering why so many aliens, demons and advanced technology hadn't introduced any aspect of disease, or bio-warfare agents. It was explained in lamens terms as to how such implementations effect gameplay. So I find it rather challenging to believe​ that PB instituted nano-bot defenses for this DBee and not mention it in the description. Granted, WE have no idea what Malvoren biodefenses they do or don't have as currently written, which points back to a GM call.

Furthermore, having an entire race be immune to the nano-bot plague is a setting breaker aspect which I can assure you, would not be made as an official decision.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:02 pm
  

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Malvoren can control technology of war. The nano-plague is part of the war. It shouldn't really matter that the entire race would be natural technojackers or not given that it is unlikely there will be more than one in any campaign. So all you really need to decide is if the one and only Malvoren should be granted this or if they will be absolutely hosed by the entire setting and be a naked helpless character resulting in the player having no fun. Because he'll not be able to use bio-tech being shunned/attacked by the splicers, either.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:22 pm
  

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Palladin

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
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Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Premier wrote:
I think it is a broad stretch to assume that simply because a being has a natural ability to do something that they are exempt or can automatically override or adapt to anything that involves that natural ability. The human body can consume and digest foods and liquids naturally, but it doesn't mean the human body us automatically immune to everything it intakes. Let alone foreign or poisonous substances.

True. But this is hardly the same.

Premier wrote:
For the Malvoren, there is nothing​ currently written that implies that they have any microscopic defenses against infected/hostile technology from an alien/foreign world that they have not encountered​ before. What we do know however, is that the race is composed of living corded tissues(flesh) in which invokes the nano-bot plague upon prolonged contact. And "If" the Malvoren have nano-bots of their own, that doesn't mean their nano-bots are capable of overriding N.E.X.U.S. nano-bots. Please notice the pattern of avoidance that Palladium has taken in the past when it comes down to microscopic or bio warfare. I brought this up some time ago, wondering why so many aliens, demons and advanced technology hadn't introduced any aspect of disease, or bio-warfare agents. It was explained in lamens terms as to how such implementations effect gameplay. So I find it rather challenging to believe​ that PB instituted nano-bot defenses for this DBee and not mention it in the description. Granted, WE have no idea what Malvoren biodefenses they do or don't have as currently written, which points back to a GM call.

This is irrelevant though.
This isn't about biodefenses.
Because this isn't a disease.
It is a machine.
Specifically it is a war machine that upon touching them goes into action and attacks.
They then cluster up to make larger machines that make larger ones that...
...and for some reason we are to assume that malvoran with their ability to link up with and control any and all machines of war cant control these ones?
The Malvoran don't have to have nanites of their own. They just have to co-opt the ones that they touch and make those ones theirs... which is, after all, more or less how Techno-Jackers are presented as working.
Put it simply. Nanite comes in. Once Nanite is close enough to sense "organic life form, attack" they are also close enough for "machine of war, <nom nom nom>". At the lower end, they simply would be effectively immune to the plague, since they could use tech with out fear. At the higher end they would be able to assimilate enough nanites to make themselves a swarm like a Techno-Jacker.

Premier wrote:

Furthermore, having an entire race be immune to the nano-bot plague is a setting breaker aspect which I can assure you, would not be made as an official decision.

Letting in anything from outside the setting breaks it totally.
Seriously, the setting only works as is if it is totally enclosed and isolated. The second you bring outside influences in the written setting is irretrievably broken and your left with something else.
Magic is a setting breaker
Most psionics are setting breakers
Super powers are setting breakers
Dozens upon dozens of races are setting breakers
Being yet one more on the pile of literally hundreds of things that breaks the setting is not any reason to assume that someone should be stripped of their races primary ability.

_________________
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


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Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:03 pm
  

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Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:08 am
Posts: 239
I have a related topic that I want to bring up in another thread hopefully focused more on story elements, so have some comments.
Technojacker Ability Create Nanobot Armor: wrote:
Note: When the Technojacker has either one of his armor defenses up, the character is impervious to vacuums, poisonous/toxic atmospheres and radiation. The character is also impervious to damage or death due to the Nanobot Plague. Unlike other humans, he can touch and use machines and metal with no fear at all
This makes it seem like the Technojacker is only immune while they have up their armor, which I don't imagine is the case in most games. Plague Immunity should be its own power.
Spicers pg 13 wrote:
All others, however, including Deevils, demons, dragons, Faerie Folk, Lizard Men, Dog Boys, and most other flesh and blood beings will trigger the hostile response of the nanobot plague.(emphasis mine)
Most means not all. In that all mammals are affected, and a number of non-mammalian sapient species are, "beings" can be equally argued in this case to mean "living thing" or "person". If one chooses the former, then Malvoren should probably be affected. If one chooses the latter, then the degree to which a given being is further from a human becomes potentially noteworthy. The Malvoren seem far more Annelid than Mammalian in descent, even though they do have limbs underneath their tendrils. Insofar as regular earthworms(which also have muscle tissue) aren't affected by the nanobot plague, and having an argument over whether or not an earthworm is closer to a human than is a Lizard Man seems like the world's most tedious discussion, I'm inclined to Rule of Cool it.

The rationale for how a Malvoren adapts to the Nanoplague can be played a couple of ways. The Machine personalities have long struck me as being one of the less interesting parts of the setting; most of the information about them shouldn't be general knowledge, yet the introductory text is presented as quotes and first-hand accounts. Relying on interactions with one or more personalities comes across to me as a strained attempt at a story hook. If you like it, though, follow your bliss.

I'd introduce a Malvoren that got stranded to the nanobot plague via assault. I'd argue that anything metallic counts as a device of war in this one circumstance. Upon attempting to meld with something they would sense the higher cost of their personal reserves (P.P.E. halved, effects cost twice as much), and only find their initial attempt successful after using Telemechanic Paralysis or Mental Operation (full I.S.P., effects cost twice as much), followed by Heal&Repair Weapons and Armor. After successfully melding they can incorporate some of the nanobots into themselves at a cost of 20 P.P.E. (on another world this would cost 10 P.P.E.). This melding provides them Nanobot Immunity, and no other Technojacker abilities.

The Malvoren in this case would feel a lesser version of the anxiety had by creatures and practitioners of magic. An average 1st level stranded Malvoren has ~60 P.P.E., 20 of which is allocated. They are likely to forgo their natural inclination for hand to hand combat and try to find the biggest war machine they can, not power the weapons themselves, and stay put.


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