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 Post subject: Kick Like a Horse?
Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:12 pm
  

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Dungeon Crawler

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A mega-damage horse anyway. I was curious about the way damage, hand-to-hand in particular, seems to stack in Splicers. I've done a few test builds (a little time-killer of mine) and, for example, I've cooked up a Biotic with a total karate kick damage of 6D6+6 MD, using couple leg and exoskeleton options, with hooves, but not claws (even I'm not that munchkin). A more simple example would be anything packing, say, 3 sets of Large Horns: they'd have at least a 9D6 MD head-smash if I'm reading it right.

This isn't a question about realism (don't care a lick about that), but rather a technical one about the rules: Is the damage in Splicers supposed to pile up like that?

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 Post subject: Re: Kick Like a Horse?
Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:29 pm
  

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Palladin

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Of course. And the crazy bonuses stack.


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 Post subject: Re: Kick Like a Horse?
Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:20 pm
  

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Dungeon Crawler

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Don't get me wrong, though: I'm certainly not against trashing robots in a high-damage slugfest! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Kick Like a Horse?
Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:29 pm
  

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Palladin

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out of curiosity, just how much damage is possible in addition to ps??
I may have to aquire the splicers book.
Great bonuses and incredible damage output and range.
Puts them stock on par with Megaheroes in mdc settings.

On Rifts Earth splicers could Dominate in relatively small group numbers. A genetic "boogie man" to counter the amazing hard tech of bionics and vehicles.

Loads of interdimensional hijinx opportunity exisys.


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 Post subject: Re: Kick Like a Horse?
Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:34 pm
  

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Dungeon Crawler

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In Splicers, their up-close weaponry outweighs their long-range weapons, with a few exceptions. In Rifts, its easy-peasy to get a 1d6x10 MD railgun. And who knows what sort of havoc metal slugs in a Splicer's body would do, thanks to that nanite plague.

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 Post subject: Re: Kick Like a Horse?
Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:09 am
  

Palladin

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:11 pm
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it isn't that hard to get a high damage ranged weapon in splicers either.

it's just that the close-range weapons get even more destructive. i think someone worked it out and found that flying blades are the most efficient overall, and you can get some pretty impressive damage with them.


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 Post subject: Re: Kick Like a Horse?
Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:04 am
  

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Hero

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:24 pm
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Swift-13 wrote:
In Splicers, their up-close weaponry outweighs their long-range weapons, with a few exceptions. In Rifts, its easy-peasy to get a 1d6x10 MD railgun. And who knows what sort of havoc metal slugs in a Splicer's body would do, thanks to that nanite plague.


does not work that way, thank the gods. The machine has many robots that use railguns so it would have been in the rules somewhere.


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 Post subject: Re: Kick Like a Horse?
Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:50 am
  

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Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 5:37 am
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boxee wrote:
Swift-13 wrote:
In Splicers, their up-close weaponry outweighs their long-range weapons, with a few exceptions. In Rifts, its easy-peasy to get a 1d6x10 MD railgun. And who knows what sort of havoc metal slugs in a Splicer's body would do, thanks to that nanite plague.


does not work that way, thank the gods. The machine has many robots that use railguns so it would have been in the rules somewhere.


Like a lot of things, it depends on how evil your GameMaster is. In my case, I could rule that metal slugs heal slower or even halt bio-regeneration. A nice turn-around on using U-Rounds on supernatural critters in Rifts. :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: Kick Like a Horse?
Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:56 am
  

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Dungeon Crawler

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Shark_Force wrote:
it isn't that hard to get a high damage ranged weapon in splicers either.

it's just that the close-range weapons get even more destructive. i think someone worked it out and found that flying blades are the most efficient overall, and you can get some pretty impressive damage with them.


Point for point, though, I find up-close weapons to be easier to get, without having to wait levels to get super/mega/ect upgrades. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Kick Like a Horse?
Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:35 pm
  

Palladin

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Swift-13 wrote:
Shark_Force wrote:
it isn't that hard to get a high damage ranged weapon in splicers either.

it's just that the close-range weapons get even more destructive. i think someone worked it out and found that flying blades are the most efficient overall, and you can get some pretty impressive damage with them.


Point for point, though, I find up-close weapons to be easier to get, without having to wait levels to get super/mega/ect upgrades. :)


heat projector cannons and omega blasters are available from level 2 onward. you can have 6 super light cells (6d10, very similar to 10d6) at level 2 as well.

bio-e vents are dirt cheap and can do similar average damage to 1d6x10 at level 1, if you have a high PE.

organic rockets are available from level 1 and can be volley fired for impressive damage.

even in handheld weapons, the bio-e rifle can do scary things right from level 1 (though you're fairly limited in frequency of use), and the pod rifle allows 5d8 damage in an AOE.

then you start considering what some of the warmounts can bring to the party, again at level 1. ranged options are not suffering

ranged damage can get pretty scary in the splicers universe too. if you're doing 10d6 with a melee attack, you're actually doing less than a heat projector, so by all means stack up those melee damage bonuses.

(there are also actually some options that are technically ranged, but their range is short enough that i wouldn't describe them as strictly ranged; flying blades, for example, are technically a ranged attack, but range is so short it may as well be melee, and they have i think the highest potential damage per action in the entire game).


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 Post subject: Re: Kick Like a Horse?
Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 6:16 pm
  

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Knight

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:23 pm
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Swift-13 wrote:
Shark_Force wrote:
it isn't that hard to get a high damage ranged weapon in splicers either.

it's just that the close-range weapons get even more destructive. i think someone worked it out and found that flying blades are the most efficient overall, and you can get some pretty impressive damage with them.


Point for point, though, I find up-close weapons to be easier to get, without having to wait levels to get super/mega/ect upgrades. :)



Which makes sense when you dealing with biological armors that its easier to grow better fangs/claws/thorns/spines than ranged weapon easier and faster.


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 Post subject: Re: Kick Like a Horse?
Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:25 am
  

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Palladin

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say652 wrote:
out of curiosity, just how much damage is possible in addition to ps??

I don't think you would add PS to this...

But I am not aware of any numerical cap placed on how many "flying blades" one can purchase for armor (page 101). At 4 Bio-E per blade and 1D4 MD per blade, the maximum damage (pre-crit) you do per attack is equal to the Bio-E you invest.

Although you can explicitly get flying blades multiple times, I also notice that while some upgrades do not mention being able to buy multiple, they don't necessarily exclude it either. Some other powers go out of their way to mention caps...so surely if we could only select a feature once, it would tell us there is a cap of 1x right?

So unless there is some rule I've overlooked about being able to select a feature only once unless otherwise indicated...

Page 84's "reinforced exoskeleton" gives you +3D6 MD from Body Blocks for a mere 5 Bio-E, so if the GM let you buy that for your armor 10x for 50 Bio-E, you can add a boom gun blast to your body blocks :)

So let's see, at level 1, maxing the rolls and buying nothing else, ME 30 + PE 30 + 180 + 40carnivore ... 280 bio-E to buy either a 70d4 attack (average 175 max 280) at 30 feet, or a +168d6 body block (average 588 max 1008) if GM allows you to multi-select RE.

One contra-indication to 'Reinforced Exoskeleton' being multi-selectable however is that it would completely negate any purpose whatsoever in selecting "Increased MDC" on page 63. It's double the cost so if you selected Rexoskeleton twice you'd get +60 to main body and +14 to other locations, while Increased MDC only gives +40 to main and +10 to other locations. Not to mention it doesn't add any damage, and gives you movement penalties.

One way to bring that into balance via house rules would be to lower the cost of increased MDC to 5 Bio-E (that way 40>30 and 10>7, so it does give more MDC per Bio-E).

As it is, I think Reinforced Exoskeleton, if kept to once-selectable, should probably be a prerequisite for Increased MDC. It's just so much more efficient an investment of Bio-E in terms of bang for your buck. The downside being you can only buy it once, probably, or at least you can't explicitly buy it more than once like Increased MDC or Flying Blades.

Swift-13 wrote:
In Rifts, its easy-peasy to get a 1d6x10 MD railgun.

Is it? I realize the Samson has it but that's worth close to a million creds and doesn't appear to be sold separately. Northern Gun produces a model with the same number but it does less damage, would think the 1d4x10 stuff is more accessible.

I never thought about what the slugs would do though :) I assume Splicer's regeneration would push them out, but U-rounds might prevent that.

boxee wrote:
The machine has many robots that use railguns so it would have been in the rules somewhere.

Unless the author just didn't think of it. Doesn't mean it won't happen.

Perhaps bullet-lodging is just rare, like it might dent/cut you but bounce off quickly before the plague activates.

Also since bullets are simple, it would take prolonged contact for them to turn, meaning plenty of time for bio-regen to expel the bullets before. Writer might've assumed this occurs.

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 Post subject: Re: Kick Like a Horse?
Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:31 am
  

Palladin

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:11 pm
Posts: 7087
flying blades does have specific text that says you can buy it more than once, and text that talks about how it works when you do.

no game can function on a rules system that only tells you what you can't do. if it doesn't say you can, unless there is some kind of indication that you should be able to, you can't.


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 Post subject: Re: Kick Like a Horse?
Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:08 am
  

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Palladin

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In this case we are told we can buy things with Bio-E, so it feels like it should tell us when we can't buy it more than once. Page 76 left column says "exactly what enhancements are chosen is up to the individual Dreadguard". No "unless you already have it", right? Right column says "just about anything should be possible when designing a Host Armor". The limits it introduces are basically about placement (like not being able to have missiles and heat cannon taking up the same space)

It also says "Many of the enhancements will state within their description if the Host Armor is limited to a specific number of them".

That implies to me that it's up to the feature to opt-out via introducing a limitation. So ultra-body-block seems in :)

It doesn't seem that bad, TBH. If you spent ALL your points, sure, you'd have a hundreds-of-MD body block, but that's about it. You'd have no ranged attacks and be a sitting duck to anyone who had them. You'd have little MDC and be vulnerable to getting killed before you got close enough to land a hit. You wouldn't be any more accurate with your hits.

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 Post subject: Re: Kick Like a Horse?
Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:35 am
  

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Palladin

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5D6×10+1D6×100+60md claw damage.
2D6×10+20+1D6×100+60md bite damage.

While my combat bonuses are no where near spliced levels, super powers do aight in the H2H damage department.


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 Post subject: Re: Kick Like a Horse?
Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:53 pm
  

Palladin

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:11 pm
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Tor wrote:
In this case we are told we can buy things with Bio-E, so it feels like it should tell us when we can't buy it more than once. Page 76 left column says "exactly what enhancements are chosen is up to the individual Dreadguard". No "unless you already have it", right? Right column says "just about anything should be possible when designing a Host Armor". The limits it introduces are basically about placement (like not being able to have missiles and heat cannon taking up the same space)

It also says "Many of the enhancements will state within their description if the Host Armor is limited to a specific number of them".

That implies to me that it's up to the feature to opt-out via introducing a limitation. So ultra-body-block seems in :)

It doesn't seem that bad, TBH. If you spent ALL your points, sure, you'd have a hundreds-of-MD body block, but that's about it. You'd have no ranged attacks and be a sitting duck to anyone who had them. You'd have little MDC and be vulnerable to getting killed before you got close enough to land a hit. You wouldn't be any more accurate with your hits.


you only have one exoskeleton to reinforce.


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 Post subject: Re: Kick Like a Horse?
Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:44 pm
  

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Palladin

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Right, but it doesn't say we can only do 1 reinforcement on it. Since most state if it's limited to a specific number, this is either not limited to a specific number, or of a minority which neglects to mention such a limit.

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