So I can't quite figure this out

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

Robots fight humanity
humanity fights robots with metal tech
robots release nanobot plague
humans can no longer touch metal without consequences
humans invent biotech to fight machines
So far I can wrap my head around all of this without problem.

Here is where my brain goes "Wait just a darn minute"

Say my Pc is snuggled safely within his host armor and engages a robot in HtH combat.
The robot is still made of metal right?
(Big Question)Does the host armor protect against the nanobot plague or does the metal of the robot go wonky (as per the virus reaction rules)?

IF the host armor protects the wearer from suffering the hazards of metal exposure then humanity should still utilize metal technology, but treat it has as a hazardous material/environment (no operating unless wearing your personal protective equipment).

If the host armor DOES NOT protect the wearer from suffering the hazards of metal exposure, then you're back to my original understanding of Technojackers being the only humans who can even come near something metallic.

This brings you back to the 2nd part of the Big Question. Will the metal in the robots react to a human wearing host armor per the nanobot plague random reaction table??

(2nd Question). What exactly does the nanobot plague effect? Is it humans only? Is it all mammals? Is it all animal life (everything that is not a plant or fungus type thing)?

The basis behind the (2nd Question) is in relation to introducing Dbee's/Aliens into a splicer campaign.
PC's from ATB aren't human (or necessarily mammals) even though they contain some human dna or have human traits. Does the nanobot plague still affect them?
In PF, only humans are human (they're screwed). All the other races (elf, dwarf, whatever) aren't human, but are (mostly) mammals and very human like.
As for Aliens..well they're not human at all, they're alien. Then you run into animal aliens, mineral aliens, machine aliens.
With Rifts, well you've got humans (who're obviously screwed via the plague) and everything else.

Who is safe? Who isn't?

Would appreciate the thoughts of you learned splice heads on this matter.

[krispy]

again, pages 13 & 167/168 in the main book answer all these questions

the nanoplague is everywhere the humans are infected with it, so is their Host Armour, Warmounts and the pet cats some of the children have.

read those pages

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

again, pages 13 & 167/168 in the main book answer all these questions

the nanoplague is everywhere the humans are infected with it, so is their Host Armour, Warmounts and the pet cats some of the children have.

read those pages

Ok so by your answer above I can assume that HTH with a robot is a bad idea as the host armor is plague ridden and will cause the metal to react on top of the machine trying to kill you. Also host armor is no protection against the plague and only technojackers can come near metal. That is what I get from your statement.

Pg 13 says .... Plant, Rock, beings are immune. All other organic life forms activate the plague.

Pg 168 makes me wonder about mechanical aliens. It says robots and other smart machines are irrevocably subverted and turned into Nexus minions unless being controlled by the mind of a living being. Do machine aliens count as "living beings"? What about transferred intelligence robots (the brain transplant ones)? Are they immune or does the plague cause the robotic body to try to kill the brain within it.

[krispy]

actually, though the dreadguards HA is infected with the nanoplague, they can go toe 2 toe with any operational/functioning machine. for some reason (they think its a dampening field) if you come in contact with any robot of the Machine hoard 'when active' you will not trigger the nanoplague reaction...however; if the same robot becomes inactive (destroyed) then if the Host Armour or any other living creature (besides TJs) comes in contact with it, then they will trigger the reaction
the Machine doesnt want her robot hoard to be effected by the nanoplague during a fire fight


when it comes to robots, it states quite clearly that simple robots like skelbots become subservient to NEXUS within 1D4 minutes.... but
sophisticated artificial intelligence like Archie 3 and robots controlled by the mind of a living being are immune

robots controlled by the mind of a living being are those like in Rifts Triax and the NGR where the consciousness of a human is put into a robot

[The Galactus Kid]

Krispy is correct. If the Robot is active, it does not trigger a nano-plague response. as soon as itis destroyed, the clock starts ticking. Simple machines, like toasters and computers don't have this caveat. They are incredibly dangerous. Even thngs as simple as a fire escape or scaffoding can turn really bad, really fast.

[Guy_LeDouche]

Simple machines, like toasters and computers don't have this caveat. They are incredibly dangerous. Even thngs as simple as a fire escape or scaffoding can turn really bad, really fast.

The Nanoplague! One of the most overlooked but potentially dangerous things in this universe. It makes a great plot device and can serve as a wonderful "lingering threat" in the background. It helps to add an air of menace and danger to an adventure. It may not always be an active worry or problem, but it has the potential to erupt at any time and cause some havok and chaos.

Think of what a great weapon this is. N.E.X.U.S. doesn't need a lot of fancy weapons to inflict horrendous damage to humans; anything that sprays metal everywhere creates an instant hot zone. Cluster munitions, artillery shells, frag grenades, shotgun blasts, even spent ammunition casings are potential hazards. Sure, the PC lucks out and only takes a glancing hit from a frag grenade. But is there any shrapnel in the wound? If so, what's going to happen? Do they take the time to dig it out (and suffer additional damage) or take their chances and hope the plague response is minimal?

Also with the nanoplague comes some unique logistical problems. Your PCs are out of ammo, what do they do now? In Rifts and other games, its an easy answer. You scrounge weapons, ammo, equipment, etc. off your defeated foes. In Splicers, however, unless your PC is a Techno-Jacker, this is a disaster waiting to happen .

Realistically, the nanoplague isn't a major threat in wilderness areas. However, it can drastically change the scope of adventures and campaigns in other areas. For example, crossing an old battlefield, littered with robot pieces and fragments, becomes an adventure in and of itself. And the nanoplague has a MAJOR impact on adventures/campaigns in cities, industrial areas, power plantes, etc. Not being able to simply pick up weapons and ammo from fallen foes also tests the PCs resourcefulness.

Imagine the PCs trapped in a building, surrounded by hostile forces, low on ammo. and there's only one way out: across a metal rooftop!!!

Long time ago, I had a great session of Splicers where the PCs were tasked with destroying a Machine Power Plant. The adventure became one giant, moving fight for survival. Because of the metallic floor in the power plant, PCs couldn't stand still for longer than a few seconds at a time, and were forced to conduct a running battle while trying to complete the mission (its really hard to sneak around when the very floor itself could attack you! ) It was one of the best nights of role-playing I've had in 20+ years.

[Shark_Force]

the ammo concern is a good reason to pack one of a few specific weapons that have unlimited ammo... if nothing else, pretty much anyone can own a light cell laser rifle or pistol.

now, some of the better weapons are limited by ammo, so you might need to downgrade, but actually running out is fairly easy to avoid.

(and of course, depending on what sort of modifications your armour/mount/whatever has, it can be *really* easy; heat projectors and spore dischargers are likely to be fairly popular choices for just that reason)

[Guy_LeDouche]

the ammo concern is a good reason to pack one of a few specific weapons that have unlimited ammo... if nothing else, pretty much anyone can own a light cell laser rifle or pistol.

now, some of the better weapons are limited by ammo, so you might need to downgrade, but actually running out is fairly easy to avoid.

(and of course, depending on what sort of modifications your armour/mount/whatever has, it can be *really* easy; heat projectors and spore dischargers are likely to be fairly popular choices for just that reason)

I think every PC in every Splicers game I've been involved with is packing either the spore dishcarger, Bio E weapon or similar for just such an occasion. With some weapons requiring full blown meals before ammo regeneration, combat stamina can be a problem. Intense firefights don't offer much chance of getting your grub on.

[Shark_Force]

right, like I said: not running out of ammo is relatively easy. unlimited ammo weapons are cheap and plentiful.

that said, I wouldn't want to rely 100% on spore discharger as my unlimited-use weapon. or bio-e vent (although it's better, it still has limited uses before you start taking penalties). complete inability to damage other splicers (and also presumably force fields) leaves you with a dangerous vulnerability; just pack a light cell laser rifle if it's your backup weapon. better range, damages pretty much anything, uses less resources.

on the other hand, if you're planning on really maxing out the spore discharger as a main weapon, it's a pretty awesome thing to have because it can seriously wreck groups of robots. it all depends what you're aiming for though; for single target damage you're better off with a heat projector if you can get one.

[Guy_LeDouche]

I wouldn't want to rely 100% on spore discharger as my unlimited-use weapon. or bio-e vent (although it's better, it still has limited uses before you start taking penalties). complete inability to damage other splicers (and also presumably force fields) leaves you with a dangerous vulnerability

An excellent point; I was too focused on Machine combat.

[The Galactus Kid]

Spore discharger and acid blood are both great when you have shrapnel in you. Just FYI.

[Shark_Force]

not sure spore discharger would be able to get at the shrapnel, but acid blood should work fine for that =S

[The Galactus Kid]

not sure spore discharger would be able to get at the shrapnel, but acid blood should work fine for that =S

it's in a liquid medium so it will fill the shape of the wound.

[Premier]

not sure spore discharger would be able to get at the shrapnel, but acid blood should work fine for that =S

it's in a liquid medium so it will fill the shape of the wound.

You just gave me a new idea... snicker

[The Galactus Kid]

not sure spore discharger would be able to get at the shrapnel, but acid blood should work fine for that =S

it's in a liquid medium so it will fill the shape of the wound.

You just gave me a new idea... snicker

OH NO!!! WHAT HAVE I DONE!?!

[glitterboy2098]

Robots fight humanity
humanity fights robots with metal tech
robots release nanobot plague
humans can no longer touch metal without consequences
humans invent biotech to fight machines
So far I can wrap my head around all of this without problem.

Here is where my brain goes "Wait just a darn minute"

Say my Pc is snuggled safely within his host armor and engages a robot in HtH combat.
The robot is still made of metal right?
(Big Question)Does the host armor protect against the nanobot plague or does the metal of the robot go wonky (as per the virus reaction rules)?

IF the host armor protects the wearer from suffering the hazards of metal exposure then humanity should still utilize metal technology, but treat it has as a hazardous material/environment (no operating unless wearing your personal protective equipment).

If the host armor DOES NOT protect the wearer from suffering the hazards of metal exposure, then you're back to my original understanding of Technojackers being the only humans who can even come near something metallic.

This brings you back to the 2nd part of the Big Question. Will the metal in the robots react to a human wearing host armor per the nanobot plague random reaction table??.

the main thing to remember is that the 'nano-plague' isn't a case of"human touches metal, human gets sick' like you might assume. it's "human touches metal, that metal is converted into a killing machine which can end up under nexus control.

think about it as being like the cube thing from the first transformers movie.. Nokia cell phone turned into a killer robot. the metal shoots out spikes at the weakest reaction, become a blood thirsty shape changing blob at the strongest. this could really screw up NEXUS robots in battle so NEXUS either programmed the plagues nanobots to ignore active nexus bots.. or equipped its bots with some sort of IFF beacon to shut the plague off temporarily. either way it isn't something that humans can exploit against nexus normally.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

10pts to Glitterboy for getting the thread back on topic!

I wasn't thinking of the humans exploiting it against nexus, but rather trying to pin down how it reacted to contact with host armor and other non humans.

[Shark_Force]

yeah, it may or may not have had that feature originally. if it did, it probably only took a couple of balloons full of synthesized blood to make the machine decide that it wasn't such a good thing that it's robots could sprout randomly flailing tentacle blades on their own innards if someone managed to drip some blood into the right place.

[Slight001]

IIRC the splicers book actually mentions human suicide waves being the reason for the implementation of the 'safety' trigger for the nano-plague.

[BookWyrm]

Because of the nanoplague humans cannot touch/make bare-skin contact with most refined metal (such as scrapped bots, a fork, ect. see the illustration on p. 10 of the man book), which runs the risk of catastrophic/lethal reaction. Humans respond to this by developing 'Splicer' technology and Host Armors. The nanoplague, while infecting everything, does not react as programmed to when encountering the biological & goes into stand-by or 'wait' mode until conditions meet for activation ("Hey Trell, What's this thing? Looks like one of those 'skrew-driver' things my great grandad used to mumble about--").
Because of this, the Resistance & the Great Houses is Splicer-Tech to make everything, from simple clothing (Lady A'teil of House Vherzahat'chi surprised her grand-niece's Coming Of Age celebration by giving her a glitter-wrap dress, made from spider-silk & embedded with nano-glittermites) to tablewear (it's not that shocking that the utensils one uses to cut up food would be grown from mega-damage woods or even finger long-bones. Look in some Halloween catalogs, at bone- & skeleton-themed kitchenwares) to decorative 'paintings' (the artisan/Geneticist Bessuyt's rendition of "The Terrible Machine", depicting NEXUS' first assault on humanity, is still a much valued status symbol amongst the Houses; Ralph 'The Red' Bellamy is said to have the only know original in existence. The image is essentially a canvas of living skin, like the one used for the 'Second Skin' device from Rifter #32 with an intricate full-color tattoo on it, stretched on a MDC frame).

As for the nanoplague effecting non-human life (animals, plant forms, ect.), it would again stay in 'wait' mode, since one of NEXUS' primary programming strings is the protection of said life.

[Shark_Force]

actually, the nanoplague iirc does react to some animals. dogs in particular, i think, are mentioned somewhere.

could be wrong about that though.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

As for the nanoplague effecting non-human life (animals, plant forms, ect.), it would again stay in 'wait' mode, since one of NEXUS' primary programming strings is the protection of said life.

Sweeet!! Import mutants (they aint human!) from TMNT or ATB2, give them some bio weapons and watch them dominate. hoody hoo!

[Guy_LeDouche]

Sweeet!! Import mutants (they aint human!) from TMNT or ATB2, give them some bio weapons and watch them dominate. hoody hoo!

Not necessarily. With the nanoplauge, it's not a question of the target being human, but mammal. Species doesn't matter. If they are mammalian, they're still as subject to the plague as any human. The plague reacts to contact with any mammal - human, ape, dog, cat, horse, rat, etc. - the same. As it's written, most flesh and blood beings will trigger the hostile response of the nanobot plague.

The only named exception are beings who are not mammalian or similar organic life forms - i.e., silicon/rock or plant/vegetation beings. All others, including Deevils, demons, dragons, Faerie Folk, Lizard Men, Dog Boys, and most other flesh and blood beings will trigger the hostile response of the nanobot plague. Even Xiticix and other insectoids activate the plague, though it takes hours of prolonged exposure (tum minutes into hours, seconds into minutes) before that happens.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

Today's forecast, "Storm LeDouche moved in unexpectedly this evening to rain all over my parade."

Lol,

Yeah, I got a similar explanation farther up. I was a little hopeful however, when I read about the programming directive to protect wildlife.

EDIT based on what you said, I don't think nexus limits itself to mammals. Dragons and Lizard men I wouldn't think would be mammals. xitiixicit (however the hell you spell it) aren't mammals, nor are other insects. At best definition I'd just go with "all flesh and blood beings will trigger a response" that lets the mineral, plant, and mechanical aliens off the hook.

[Guy_LeDouche]

EDIT based on what you said, I don't think nexus limits itself to mammals. Dragons and Lizard men I wouldn't think would be mammals. xitiixicit (however the hell you spell it) aren't mammals, nor are other insects. At best definition I'd just go with "all flesh and blood beings will trigger a response" that lets the mineral, plant, and mechanical aliens off the hook.

Credit where it's due: I didn't write it; just stole it from the book. My apologies if it was covered in an earlier post. Never like to beat a dead horse.

For what it's worth, it is your game universe. I'm a big believer in not letting rules get in the way of a fun game. If the plague doesn't fit in or needs to be changed, I say do it. I know if you look through a lot of older posts, the mechanics of the plague has been a point of contention several times. Feel free to change them.

I'm not familiar with ATB mutants, but you could always say there's something about their mutation that halts or slows the plague reaction time. Or, like you said, the nanites "see" the characters as wildlife and takes prolonged exposure to actually trigger.