can saves vs magic be voluntarily failed?

Diabolists, Techno-Wizards & Psionicists, Oh my! All things that are Magics and Psionics in all Palladium Games.

Moderators: Immortals, Supreme Beings, Old Ones

User avatar
Axelmania
Knight
Posts: 5523
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:13 pm

can saves vs magic be voluntarily failed?

Unread post by Axelmania »

Like if something mentions a save but you don't want to because you want the effect?

Bonding (Ritual) from Nightbane (page, not world book) 144 comes to mind. It mentions a standard save (at -1) and two of the examples of the things you can transmit with it are "Heal Wounds" and "Breathe Without Air" which would be pretty useful. So it made me wonder if a Sorcerer (with his impressive +4 to save) would have a hard time gaining this benefit from his master (at a distance further than usual) or if he could just opt not to resist and get BWA.

Just not sure if "the victim always gets to save" is the same as "always HAS TO save", basically. "get" seems to convey opportunity/choice rather than obligation

Or maybe this is something like on a case by case basis?

I think there have been cases where a spell might say "unless the target opts not to resist" but I can't seem to recall a particular one...

Then on the other hand I think I recall at least one case where you MUST resist, that being the Remove Heart ritual from Mystic China.

The requirement to know the "true name" is pretty restrictive in many cases. Somewhere I think there's rules that most ways of getting info from people's brains won't work (I recall I think that Mind Bond does, but telepathy doesn't? Not sure about just tricking them ie using Hypnotic Suggestion)

Where this seems like it could be super useful though is with Familiars since you could just raise the animal and name it yourself. Then you could heal it if it's injured while on an away mission, or if it's suffocating in an airtight box (prob good for stashing it in a suitcase)
User avatar
Mack
Supreme Being
Posts: 6295
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2000 2:01 am
Comment: This space for rent.
Location: Searching the Dinosaur Swamp
Contact:

Re: can saves vs magic be voluntarily failed?

Unread post by Mack »

"can saves vs magic be voluntarily failed?"

Yes. Look at Heal Wounds (BoM p106), Superhuman Endurance (BoM p109), Cure Illness (BoM p111), or Fortify Against Disease (BoM p112).
Some gave all.
Love your neighbor.
Know the facts. Know your opinion. Know the difference.
User avatar
Axelmania
Knight
Posts: 5523
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:13 pm

Re: can saves vs magic be voluntarily failed?

Unread post by Axelmania »

Mack wrote:"can saves vs magic be voluntarily failed?"

Yes. Look at Heal Wounds (BoM p106), Superhuman Endurance (BoM p109), Cure Illness (BoM p111), or Fortify Against Disease (BoM p112).


I probably need to amend my question to be clearer...

In these cases it mentions "standard, if the person resists".

If there is no "if the person resists" disclaimer after "standard", would the option still exist to "not resist" ?

For example, the 2nd level spell Levitation (BOM 94) doesn't have the "if" statement on the bold line, though it does mention "unwilling victims" in the body so that's a bad example...

Maybe the spell Light Target (BOM 97) would be better. It has "standard" and there is no "unwilling victims only" type text... there might be a situation where you WANT to be lit up (perhaps performing at a concert, giving a speech, wanting to attract foes from allies without armor) in which case a high +save vs magic could get in the way of enjoying the LT spell unless you could opt to fail.

Also interesting while flipping through spells how many Savings Throw: None ones there are... you mentioned Heal Wounds has one on 106 for example, but Light Healign on pg 97 doesn't, by contrast...

Protective spells like impervious to fire/poison similarly have "none" which could get in the way of a mage who wants to suicide by fire/poison. I guess the 'none' situations are what Negate Magic is for.
User avatar
drewkitty ~..~
Monk
Posts: 17737
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
Location: Eastvale, calif
Contact:

Re: can saves vs magic be voluntarily failed?

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

There are three setting within the canon: actively resisting, instinctively resisting, and actively accepting.
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
User avatar
Axelmania
Knight
Posts: 5523
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:13 pm

Re: can saves vs magic be voluntarily failed?

Unread post by Axelmania »

yeah, guess I'm wondering if 'standard' w/o disclaimer means actively or instinctively, because sometiems have seen either spelled out
Post Reply

Return to “Guild of Magic & Psionics”