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 Post subject: Pit cloak...
Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:05 pm
  

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Dungeon Crawler

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Does/can a pit cloak make an actual hole or is it a dimensional pocket/portable pit type of thing?

Yeah, because if it is the first, this campaign maybe buggered.


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 Post subject: Re: Pit cloak...
Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:13 pm
  

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Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
It is physically impossible to pick up the cloak and turn it back to carry unless everything that has fallen inside is first removed. That leads me to beleive it is an actual hole and not a dimensional pocket, because there is no "other" space that things go into, the hole is real and will remain until completely empty.

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 Post subject: Re: Pit cloak...
Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:14 pm
  

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Yes, but now, suppose it was put on a roof or in this case a ship. Would there be a pit or a hole? Following me now?


Last edited by ShadowHawk on Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Pit cloak...
Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:33 pm
  

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I had always read it as a pocket dimension for the simple reason that everything had to be out before you could move the cloak, so no leaving anything buried, and that when the cloak is moved there is no hole remaining.

Now for what you are talking about with starships and such you want mystic portal.

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 Post subject: Re: Pit cloak...
Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:54 pm
  

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Monk

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Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
ShadowHawk wrote:
Yes, but now, suppose it was put on a roof or in this case a ship. Would there be a pit or a hole? Following me know?


Well it would have been good to know that was your concern on the first post ;)

But the text itself gives the answer. It turns into a pit when thrown on the ground defined as dirt, sand, clay, rock and will not open a pit over air, roof, wood, a wall, ect. So the text itself says you cannot possibly use it on a ship and further shows it IS a real pit, but specifically can not be used on a ship. it can ONLY be used on the ground or a stone/clay floor of a building and no other surface whatever. It also prevents you from using it to go down a level in a multi-floor structure as that would be opening over air.

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 Post subject: Re: Pit cloak...
Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:00 am
  

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Comment: "I will not be silenced. I will not submit. I will find the truth and shout it to the world. "
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
ShadowHawk wrote:
Yes, but now, suppose it was put on a roof or in this case a ship. Would there be a pit or a hole? Following me know?


Well it would have been good to know that was your concern on the first post ;)

But the text itself gives the answer. It turns into a pit when thrown on the ground defined as dirt, sand, clay, rock and will not open a pit over air, roof, wood, a wall, ect. So the text itself says you cannot possibly use it on a ship and further shows it IS a real pit, but specifically can not be used on a ship. it can ONLY be used on the ground or a stone/clay floor of a building and no other surface whatever. It also prevents you from using it to go down a level in a multi-floor structure as that would be opening over air.

I have been trying to find this in the books for a few minutes now. Does the cloak create a pit that is then there for good or does the pit disappear when the cloak is moved?

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 Post subject: Re: Pit cloak...
Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:38 am
  

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I'd go with dimensional pocket.
It seems to be a Palladium version of a Portable Hole.

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 Post subject: Re: Pit cloak...
Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:02 am
  

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Dungeon Crawler

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Warshield73 wrote:
I had always read it as a pocket dimension for the simple reason that everything had to be out before you could move the cloak, so no leaving anything buried, and that when the cloak is moved there is no hole remaining.

Now for what you are talking about with starships and such you want mystic portal.


No, no, no...not a starship. And believe me I do not want this to happen, at all. I am the GM. The players have just looted a pirates ship, and the cutter that they have it overloaded, and they needed a place to put the stuff. So, not naming names...put one in the cargo hold to put some of it in to balance the weight and so they can load more onto the ship.


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 Post subject: Re: Pit cloak...
Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:24 am
  

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Dungeon Crawler

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She also brought onboard sand before she did this.


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 Post subject: Re: Pit cloak...
Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:57 pm
  

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Monk

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Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
Warshield73 wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
ShadowHawk wrote:
Yes, but now, suppose it was put on a roof or in this case a ship. Would there be a pit or a hole? Following me know?


Well it would have been good to know that was your concern on the first post ;)

But the text itself gives the answer. It turns into a pit when thrown on the ground defined as dirt, sand, clay, rock and will not open a pit over air, roof, wood, a wall, ect. So the text itself says you cannot possibly use it on a ship and further shows it IS a real pit, but specifically can not be used on a ship. it can ONLY be used on the ground or a stone/clay floor of a building and no other surface whatever. It also prevents you from using it to go down a level in a multi-floor structure as that would be opening over air.

I have been trying to find this in the books for a few minutes now. Does the cloak create a pit that is then there for good or does the pit disappear when the cloak is moved?


The cloak cannot be physically moved until the pit is empty, then the pit disappears.

_________________
Sometimes, you're like a beacon of light in the darkness, giving me some hope for humankind. ~ Killer Cyborg

You can have something done good, fast and cheap. If you want it done good and fast, it's not going to be cheap. If you want it done fast and cheap it won't be good. If you want something done good and cheap it won't be done fast. ~ Dark Brandon


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 Post subject: Re: Pit cloak...
Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:58 pm
  

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Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
ShadowHawk wrote:
Warshield73 wrote:
I had always read it as a pocket dimension for the simple reason that everything had to be out before you could move the cloak, so no leaving anything buried, and that when the cloak is moved there is no hole remaining.

Now for what you are talking about with starships and such you want mystic portal.


No, no, no...not a starship. And believe me I do not want this to happen, at all. I am the GM. The players have just looted a pirates ship, and the cutter that they have it overloaded, and they needed a place to put the stuff. So, not naming names...put one in the cargo hold to put some of it in to balance the weight and so they can load more onto the ship.


As I said, what she did can't actually be done because you can't use the Cloak on a Wood or Metal surface, period, there is no circumstance that would allow the players to use their cloak while at sea. It doesn't matter if it's dimensional or not because it simply won't work. you throw down the cloak and no pit forms.

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Sometimes, you're like a beacon of light in the darkness, giving me some hope for humankind. ~ Killer Cyborg

You can have something done good, fast and cheap. If you want it done good and fast, it's not going to be cheap. If you want it done fast and cheap it won't be good. If you want something done good and cheap it won't be done fast. ~ Dark Brandon


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 Post subject: Re: Pit cloak...
Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:53 pm
  

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Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:39 pm
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Nekira Sudacne wrote:
ShadowHawk wrote:
Warshield73 wrote:
I had always read it as a pocket dimension for the simple reason that everything had to be out before you could move the cloak, so no leaving anything buried, and that when the cloak is moved there is no hole remaining.

Now for what you are talking about with starships and such you want mystic portal.


No, no, no...not a starship. And believe me I do not want this to happen, at all. I am the GM. The players have just looted a pirates ship, and the cutter that they have it overloaded, and they needed a place to put the stuff. So, not naming names...put one in the cargo hold to put some of it in to balance the weight and so they can load more onto the ship.


As I said, what she did can't actually be done because you can't use the Cloak on a Wood or Metal surface, period, there is no circumstance that would allow the players to use their cloak while at sea. It doesn't matter if it's dimensional or not because it simply won't work. you throw down the cloak and no pit forms.


I repeat, "She also brought onboard sand before she did this."


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 Post subject: Re: Pit cloak...
Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:57 am
  

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Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
ShadowHawk wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
ShadowHawk wrote:
Warshield73 wrote:
I had always read it as a pocket dimension for the simple reason that everything had to be out before you could move the cloak, so no leaving anything buried, and that when the cloak is moved there is no hole remaining.

Now for what you are talking about with starships and such you want mystic portal.


No, no, no...not a starship. And believe me I do not want this to happen, at all. I am the GM. The players have just looted a pirates ship, and the cutter that they have it overloaded, and they needed a place to put the stuff. So, not naming names...put one in the cargo hold to put some of it in to balance the weight and so they can load more onto the ship.


As I said, what she did can't actually be done because you can't use the Cloak on a Wood or Metal surface, period, there is no circumstance that would allow the players to use their cloak while at sea. It doesn't matter if it's dimensional or not because it simply won't work. you throw down the cloak and no pit forms.


I repeat, "She also brought onboard sand before she did this."


I don't see how that would help? the text states: "It must be thrown vertically on the ground". Sand dumped atop of wood in a boat is not the "the ground"

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Sometimes, you're like a beacon of light in the darkness, giving me some hope for humankind. ~ Killer Cyborg

You can have something done good, fast and cheap. If you want it done good and fast, it's not going to be cheap. If you want it done fast and cheap it won't be good. If you want something done good and cheap it won't be done fast. ~ Dark Brandon


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 Post subject: Re: Pit cloak...
Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:37 pm
  

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Nekira Sudacne wrote:
ShadowHawk wrote:
Yes, but now, suppose it was put on a roof or in this case a ship. Would there be a pit or a hole? Following me know?


Well it would have been good to know that was your concern on the first post ;)

But the text itself gives the answer. It turns into a pit when thrown on the ground defined as dirt, sand, clay, rock and will not open a pit over air, roof, wood, a wall, ect. So the text itself says you cannot possibly use it on a ship and further shows it IS a real pit, but specifically can not be used on a ship. it can ONLY be used on the ground or a stone/clay floor of a building and no other surface whatever. It also prevents you from using it to go down a level in a multi-floor structure as that would be opening over air.


Bizantium uses stone ships. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Pit cloak...
Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:49 pm
  

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Champion

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Nekira Sudacne, in case you failed to notice...Shawn (ShadowHawk) tends to go by the rule of cool. And gives leniency to his players when we come up with a halfway interesting way of working around but still stay "within" the rules.

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 Post subject: Re: Pit cloak...
Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:04 pm
  

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pblackcrow wrote:
Nekira Sudacne, in case you failed to notice...Shawn (ShadowHawk) tends to go by the rule of cool. And gives leniency to his players when we come up with a halfway interesting way of working around but still stay "within" the rules.

NK's answer is the correct canon one. The pit cloke/blanket can only be used on some sort of horizontal stone or regilith type surface.
Is it a extra-D space? *shrugs*
Does the pit stay when de-activated? It is implied in the text that the pit goes away with the magic being deactivated.

However, if a GM wishs it, they can let players use it in interesting ways.
If I was the GM, I might let a player use one in a non-canon way if I thought it was cool or would move the plot forward, past a plot choke-point.

Use on stone ships? maybe. Would it put a scuttling hole in the ship. I would rule it would not.

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 Post subject: Re: Pit cloak...
Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:17 am
  

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Nekira Sudacne wrote:
ShadowHawk wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
ShadowHawk wrote:
Warshield73 wrote:
I had always read it as a pocket dimension for the simple reason that everything had to be out before you could move the cloak, so no leaving anything buried, and that when the cloak is moved there is no hole remaining.

Now for what you are talking about with starships and such you want mystic portal.


No, no, no...not a starship. And believe me I do not want this to happen, at all. I am the GM. The players have just looted a pirates ship, and the cutter that they have it overloaded, and they needed a place to put the stuff. So, not naming names...put one in the cargo hold to put some of it in to balance the weight and so they can load more onto the ship.


As I said, what she did can't actually be done because you can't use the Cloak on a Wood or Metal surface, period, there is no circumstance that would allow the players to use their cloak while at sea. It doesn't matter if it's dimensional or not because it simply won't work. you throw down the cloak and no pit forms.


I repeat, "She also brought onboard sand before she did this."


I don't see how that would help? the text states: "It must be thrown vertically on the ground". Sand dumped atop of wood in a boat is not the "the ground"


Hm.
Except that the item's description defines "ground" as "earth, dirt, sand, clay, rock, etc.
While I'd say that a handful of sand wouldn't count, if there was ENOUGH sand, then it should.

At the same time, the description (PFRPG2 p. 258) states:
It will not open a hole or pit in mid-air, wood or any living thing, nor if placed vertically on a wall.

This part--especially the "will not open a hole/pit in mid-air"--indicates to me that whatever "ground" the pit is opened on MUST be at least 20' deep, enough to actually contain the Pit itself.

For example...
Say you were standing on land, outside, and you tried to use a Pit Cloak on the soil beneath your feet when there was a natural cave beneath you.
If the cave was >20' below you, there is no reason you couldn't open the pit there.
If the cave was <20', though, then it becomes important that the pit has a set depth of 20', because any part of the pit that would break through into the cave itself would be technically "in mid-air," which is against the rules for the item.

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