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Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:07 pm
  

D-Bee

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Palladium Books has seven alignments for it's roleplaying games: Principled (basically lawful good), Scrupulous (neutral good), Unprincipled (chaotic good), Anarchist (true neutral and chaotic neutral), Aberrent (lawful neutral and lawful evil), Miscreant (neutral evil), and Diabolic (chaotic evil).

I have an alternate alignment system with but three alignments: Good, Evil, and Middle Way (between Good and Evil). In this alignment system, a Good character will mostly avoid lies, avoid killing unarmed foes, generally avoid harming innocents, avoid breaking the law most of the time, and mostly help those in need. A Good character will generally try to avoid betraying a friend and mostly avoid using torture unless absolutely necessary. An Evil character will lie, cheat, harm, and sometimes kill innocents, sometimes betray friends, often break the law, often kill unarmed foes, regularly use torture both for information and for pleasure, and often ignore those in need. A character of the Middle Way will never kill or torture innocents, but sometimes may harm them. A character of the Middle Way may torture an enemy or kill an unarmed enemy, but never kill or torture for pleasure. A Middle Way character will usually help friends in need, but often ignore strangers in need.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:07 pm
  

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Hero

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I don't agree with many of your D&D alignment analogues: Scrupulous is more Chaotic Good while Unprincipled is more neutral good; anarchist is nothing like true neutral, the dumbest alignment any gaming system has ever known (I'm only concerned about the balance=dumb, & totally without basis in human behaviour).

Your alignment system is basically good, evil and selfish, the three major categories that the Palladium alignments fall into. That's fine if you like it, but I don't really see what this is adding, or what problem this is addressing.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 5:30 pm
  

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allmarduk wrote:
Palladium Books has seven alignments for it's roleplaying games: Principled (basically lawful good), Scrupulous (neutral good), Unprincipled (chaotic good), Anarchist (true neutral and chaotic neutral), Aberrent (lawful neutral and lawful evil), Miscreant (neutral evil), and Diabolic (chaotic evil).

I have an alternate alignment system with but three alignments: Good, Evil, and Middle Way (between Good and Evil). In this alignment system, a Good character will mostly avoid lies, avoid killing unarmed foes, generally avoid harming innocents, avoid breaking the law most of the time, and mostly help those in need. A Good character will generally try to avoid betraying a friend and mostly avoid using torture unless absolutely necessary. An Evil character will lie, cheat, harm, and sometimes kill innocents, sometimes betray friends, often break the law, often kill unarmed foes, regularly use torture both for information and for pleasure, and often ignore those in need. A character of the Middle Way will never kill or torture innocents, but sometimes may harm them. A character of the Middle Way may torture an enemy or kill an unarmed enemy, but never kill or torture for pleasure. A Middle Way character will usually help friends in need, but often ignore strangers in need.


I like the way Palladium's alignment wheel is set up. People's personalities are extremely complex (at least let's hope so). So why shouldn't there be a number of possibilities? "Good" to me doesn't begin to describe a person. Said "Good" person could be as virtuous as Mother Theresa or as biased Clint Eastwood. While character notes will help deconstruct their differences, I like the idea of looking at a single word and knowing how they would act in a situation.

And there could be eight or more alignments. Passive Anarchist in BtS-2. I'm not sure if there are any more in other books.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but I like having a complex alignment system.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 5:33 pm
  

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Champion

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Depends on the player(s).

As a GM I would go with anything, even sans alignment if the player can remain consistent and actually pull it off.

In 15 or so years no one ever asked 'can we do something different?' regarding alignment.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 5:54 pm
  

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Hero

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Oh, he's biased. Hot as an iron (when he was younger, that is), but he's definitely biased. :wink:

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 5:58 pm
  

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Hero

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Oh, he's biased. Hot as an iron (when he was younger, that is), but he's definitely biased. :wink:

:-P

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:01 pm
  

Dungeon Crawler

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Skinny Girl wrote:
allmarduk wrote:
Palladium Books has seven alignments for it's roleplaying games: Principled (basically lawful good), Scrupulous (neutral good), Unprincipled (chaotic good), Anarchist (true neutral and chaotic neutral), Aberrent (lawful neutral and lawful evil), Miscreant (neutral evil), and Diabolic (chaotic evil).

I have an alternate alignment system with but three alignments: Good, Evil, and Middle Way (between Good and Evil). In this alignment system, a Good character will mostly avoid lies, avoid killing unarmed foes, generally avoid harming innocents, avoid breaking the law most of the time, and mostly help those in need. A Good character will generally try to avoid betraying a friend and mostly avoid using torture unless absolutely necessary. An Evil character will lie, cheat, harm, and sometimes kill innocents, sometimes betray friends, often break the law, often kill unarmed foes, regularly use torture both for information and for pleasure, and often ignore those in need. A character of the Middle Way will never kill or torture innocents, but sometimes may harm them. A character of the Middle Way may torture an enemy or kill an unarmed enemy, but never kill or torture for pleasure. A Middle Way character will usually help friends in need, but often ignore strangers in need.


I like the way Palladium's alignment wheel is set up. People's personalities are extremely complex (at least let's hope so). So why shouldn't there be a number of possibilities? "Good" to me doesn't begin to describe a person. Said "Good" person could be as virtuous as Mother Theresa or as biased Clint Eastwood. While character notes will help deconstruct their differences, I like the idea of looking at a single word and knowing how they would act in a situation.

And there could be eight or more alignments. Passive Anarchist in BtS-2. I'm not sure if there are any more in other books.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but I like having a complex alignment system.


I agree with the thin chick! :ok: :p

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:12 pm
  

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Skinny Girl wrote:
And there could be eight or more alignments. Passive Anarchist in BtS-2. I'm not sure if there are any more in other books.

Mystic China offers the Taoist alignment.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:17 pm
  

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Palladium alignment system is excellent. D&D alignment system is screwy. True Neutral: "ok I just saved a baby, now I have to go kill a baby to maintain the balance." huh??????


Also evil, good and neutral and lawful, chaotic and neutral are not the way real personalities work. People are generally selfless of selfish. With many shades of gray in the middle.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:29 pm
  

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Hero

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NulSyn wrote:
I agree with the thin chick! :ok: :p

Thank you. :wink: I needed a hero. :)

Glistam wrote:
Skinny Girl wrote:
And there could be eight or more alignments. Passive Anarchist in BtS-2. I'm not sure if there are any more in other books.

Mystic China offers the Taoist alignment.


Thanks, Glistam. We're up to nine, then. And all nine are well-developed.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:34 pm
  

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Say it right and they sound almost exactly the same.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:35 pm
  

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sawg138 wrote:
No, that's bad assed. :P

Changing your tune, ay? :-P

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:00 pm
  

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sawg138 wrote:
Skinny Girl wrote:
sawg138 wrote:
No, that's bad assed. :P

Changing your tune, ay? :-P

Nope. Correcting yours. He's bad-assed, not biased. :P


I think he is a biased bad ass!

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Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:26 am
  

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Palladiums system works much better then D&D's because it gives you more detail and avoids the idea of "Neutral". "NEUTRAL" is impossible to hold!! No one can be pure neutral by doing any self-less act you would be come good by doing any evil act you would be evil. To be pure neutral you would have to do nothing at all, that would make your gaming experience become dry and dull. By giving players a Indepth system for alignment Palladium allows for a more richer and fuller gaming experience. A unprincpled person my save the baby not because its the "right" thing to do but because its mom/dad is hot and this person my want to ...... you know. A Anarchist may do and then ask/demand for saving the baby, a neutral person wouldn't save the baby because it would go against his/hers alignment.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:07 pm
  

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And still leaves a lot of room for me to be me.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:08 pm
  

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sawg138 wrote:
NulSyn wrote:
sawg138 wrote:
Skinny Girl wrote:
sawg138 wrote:
No, that's bad assed. :P

Changing your tune, ay? :-P

Nope. Correcting yours. He's bad-assed, not biased. :P


I think he is a biased bad ass!

You are half right. :D

And half left, too :wink:


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Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:27 pm
  

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sawg138 wrote:
lather wrote:
sawg138 wrote:
NulSyn wrote:
sawg138 wrote:
Skinny Girl wrote:
sawg138 wrote:
No, that's bad assed. :P

Changing your tune, ay? :-P

Nope. Correcting yours. He's bad-assed, not biased. :P


I think he is a biased bad ass!

You are half right. :D

And half left, too :wink:

Just because he has two left feet...

... in his freezer? :eek:


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Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 3:33 pm
  

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sawg138 wrote:
lather wrote:
sawg138 wrote:
lather wrote:
sawg138 wrote:
NulSyn wrote:
sawg138 wrote:
Skinny Girl wrote:
sawg138 wrote:
No, that's bad assed. :P

Changing your tune, ay? :-P

Nope. Correcting yours. He's bad-assed, not biased. :P


I think he is a biased bad ass!

You are half right. :D

And half left, too :wink:

Just because he has two left feet...

... in his freezer? :eek:

No, his feet aren't detachable.

Aaaaaaaaah, we are talking his feet. Five by five.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:40 am
  

Hero

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i never liked the alignment system that decides what you can and cannot do, it feels like being told how you are supposed to play rather than just being allowed to play.

alignment should be based on what you do rather than scripting what you need to do.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:06 am
  

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There will always be exceptions and some of them justifiable. The alignment system does not preclude either.


I think of alignments like music theory... well developed guidelines that work in most cases.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:36 am
  

D-Bee

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lather wrote:
There will always be exceptions and some of them justifiable. The alignment system does not preclude either.


I think of alignments like music theory... well developed guidelines that work in most cases.



RPG alignment systems like music theory? I like that analogy.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:43 am
  

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allmarduk wrote:
lather wrote:
There will always be exceptions and some of them justifiable. The alignment system does not preclude either.


I think of alignments like music theory... well developed guidelines that work in most cases.



RPG alignment systems like music theory? I like that analogy.

Thank you!


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:33 pm
  

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EPIC wrote:
i never liked the alignment system that decides what you can and cannot do, it feels like being told how you are supposed to play rather than just being allowed to play.

alignment should be based on what you do rather than scripting what you need to do.


It doesn't say what your character can or must do, but it's a guideline for what your character should do. If you are playing a principled character, killing the villain so you can loot his corpse is out of character - you can still decide to do it, but you aren't going to be principled any more. Alignments can certainly change during play, at the GM's discretion if the players don't pay any attention to following the alignment they picked.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:35 pm
  

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EPIC wrote:
i never liked the alignment system that decides what you can and cannot do, it feels like being told how you are supposed to play rather than just being allowed to play.

alignment should be based on what you do rather than scripting what you need to do.


Um . . . alignments are based off what one does. One plays a certain way, and they eventually become that alignment. There's nothing in the books that says you "can't" act a certain way. Alignments are just guidelines to know how a character would act. Just because a "principled" alignment wouldn't do something doesn't mean a PC can't. It just means that Principled character will go down a notch if he decides to take the dirty money or to torture his enemy.

I have no problem with a player go without an alignment because he doesn't know what to be. But I assign him or her one later as their characters start to develop.

But hey, if you don't alignments . . . don't use them.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:37 pm
  

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Hero

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Talavar wrote:
It doesn't say what your character can or must do, but it's a guideline for what your character should do. If you are playing a principled character, killing the villain so you can loot his corpse is out of character - you can still decide to do it, but you aren't going to be principled any more. Alignments can certainly change during play, at the GM's discretion if the players don't pay any attention to following the alignment they picked.


Heh. Posted seconds before mine. Good one, Talavar. Took the words right out of my mouth. :wink:

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:37 pm
  

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Champion

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Why are you all talking after me?

I already covered it.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:45 pm
  

Hero

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Skinny Girl wrote:
EPIC wrote:
i never liked the alignment system that decides what you can and cannot do, it feels like being told how you are supposed to play rather than just being allowed to play.

alignment should be based on what you do rather than scripting what you need to do.


Um . . . alignments are based off what one does. One plays a certain way, and they eventually become that alignment. There's nothing in the books that says you "can't" act a certain way. Alignments are just guidelines to know how a character would act. Just because a "principled" alignment wouldn't do something doesn't mean a PC can't. It just means that Principled character will go down a notch if he decides to take the dirty money or to torture his enemy.

I have no problem with a player go without an alignment because he doesn't know what to be. But I assign him or her one later as their characters start to develop.

But hey, if you don't alignments . . . don't use them.


isn't that the kind of alignment system i said that i liked? you don't need to explain my own opinions to me :P

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:51 pm
  

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Hero

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EPIC wrote:
isn't that the kind of alignment system i said that i liked? you don't need to explain my own opinions to me :P

So it was . . . oh well. :)

Case dismissed. (Maybe . . . :P )

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:31 pm
  

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Good work team.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:51 pm
  

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lather wrote:
Good work team.

Hm? *blinks her eyes innocently* :wink:


*Edited to get rid of stupid little [/i] things.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:56 pm
  

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You know... explaining things to each other so thoroughly :)


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:02 pm
  

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Hero

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lather wrote:
You know... explaining things to each other so thoroughly :)


Oh yes. 8-)

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:51 pm
  

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Hero

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Well, my work here is done.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:37 am
  

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Hah good call.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:58 am
  

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Hero

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sawg138 wrote:
I call it as I see it. :D


When speaking of playing basketball . . . .

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I'm not 7'10", so I can't play a center, and I have 20/20 vision, so I can't be a refree, either.
:wink:

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:13 am
  

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Champion

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:P


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:24 am
  

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Hero

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Wa, wa, WA!

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:34 am
  

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Champion

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Do basketball players have alignments?

Shaq the Anarchist. :lol:

"Pass me the ball I am wide open!"

"Screw you hippy!"


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:40 am
  

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Hero

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lather wrote:
Do basketball players have alignments?

Shaq the Anarchist. :lol:

"Pass me the ball I am wide open!"

"Screw you hippy!"

:lol:

I don't enough about NBA players to comment . . . but I remember my dad and brothers arguing about some guy that threw a really bad technical? :-?

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:46 am
  

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Skinny Girl wrote:
lather wrote:
Do basketball players have alignments?

Shaq the Anarchist. :lol:

"Pass me the ball I am wide open!"

"Screw you hippy!"

:lol:

I don't enough about NBA players to comment . . . but I remember my dad and brothers arguing about some guy that threw a really bad technical? :-?

I do not follow basketball either. It is one of those sports that is more fun to play than to watch and even then I do not really enjoy it. But I think a technical is something that happens by throwing a ball at the referee or insulting his mama or something like that.

A technical can also be a Toyota, usually white, with a machinegun mounted in the back and loaded up with too many occupants to be considered safe. Imagine the carnage if one of those puppies rolled over.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:52 am
  

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Hero

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lather wrote:
Skinny Girl wrote:
lather wrote:
Do basketball players have alignments?

Shaq the Anarchist. :lol:

"Pass me the ball I am wide open!"

"Screw you hippy!"

:lol:

I don't enough about NBA players to comment . . . but I remember my dad and brothers arguing about some guy that threw a really bad technical? :-?

I do not follow basketball either. It is one of those sports that is more fun to play than to watch and even then I do not really enjoy it. But I think a technical is something that happens by throwing a ball at the referee or insulting his mama or something like that.
quote]

Hm . . . technical . . .
Referee: foul on Dennis Rodman!

DR: Eff you, Stripey Homeboy!

R: Tech!

*smack*

DR: And yo' momma wore army boots, too!

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:04 pm
  

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:lol:

I identify with Unprincipled the most.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:13 pm
  

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Hero

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lather wrote:
:lol:

I identify with Unprincipled the most.

:wink:
I think I'm either scrupulous or anarchist, depending on the mood. :-?

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