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Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:55 pm
  

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Hero

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I've recently seen a trend in my games of players taking quite a few Physical Skills at 1st level. On average, we're talking about between 1/4 and 1/2 of their Related and Secondary skill selections.

Now the overall scope seems to be more for the bonus SDC to help their character survive the first few levels (rarely are any physical skills taken after 1st lvl), but some of my players have characters who are almost combat mokeys without being Men-at-Arms OCCs (a Line walker with HtH- Martial arts plus all the physical skills available to the class; he was playing a combat mage though).

So far no one has actually broken any rules, and have taken the minimum skills required in other areas. I'm just wondering if this seems normal (are my players merely trying to ensure the survival of their characters in a very harsh enviroment) or are they on the verge of Munchinism?

How many Physical skills do you allow your players to take at 1st level? In total? I'm not really looking for ways to fix this (it hasn't proven to be much of a problem yet), just info on if this is a normal trend and how other groups tend to take Physical Skills.

*as a side note, I went back and looked at many of my old characters (NPC and otherwise) and noticed that I tended to do something similar (taking a larger number of physical skills than I realized at the time). Perhapse they picked up this trait from me?


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Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:59 pm
  

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Happens sometimes.

Why are they taking these skills? When are they lifting weights and sparring in the gym? There has to be a reason for the skills selected.

If you decide to allow it to go unchecked, you just up the power level of their foes and balance is restored and they are back to getting smoked their first few levels.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:17 am
  

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Your best bet, is to get them to submit character descriptions to you before they roll them up and ask them questions while they are rolling up their characters along the lines of "Now why is your Body Fixer taking Boxing and Weight Lifting? Is he an amateur boxer?" Get them to think of skills In Character.

My first character only had, uhh, 1 physical skill, Running, and the GM advised me to take it himself.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:22 am
  

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Players in my game have quickly learned that having mostly physical skills instead of some other much needed skills in certain situations, have noticed those said situations can kill them quicker than combat!! :D

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:31 am
  

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Exactly.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:29 am
  

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Hero

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Like I said, for the most part, they seem to be doing it more for the SDC bonus to help them survive combat for their first few levels (the most vulnerable time of their character's lives) than the other bonuses (though those also help out a bit). Rarely do they take the skills after first.

Mages tend to go for the physical skills that build their PE, since that helps with their PPE (and HP). The combat mage focused on a lot of physical skills to help him survive long enough to cast spells (this was back before the spell casting time change or PPE chanelling option when even level 1 spells took half a melee to caste; 2 to 4 actions/attacks).

I do check over their characters as they build them and before play (I even keep a record of them on my computer), and like I said, they haven't broken any of the character creation rules. Most of the time, they justify it as a part of a basic combat/survival training (since their caracaters are often expected to travel into dangerous, uncharted wilderness). If they have to take skills from another area at 1st level, they tend to take the minimum (but still with an eye to their survival, taking the more widely useful skills in that area than rarely used specialized skills that are rarely used). The only characters who rarely take any physical skills, even at 1st level are those who choose inhuman RCCs (a surprising rareity in my games), such as dragons and such (mostly because they get little choice in the physical skills or little benifit from them).

Overall, it hasn't been that much of a problem, just a noticable trend (since I do keep records of their characters). I was just wondering how many physical skills most people and groups tend to take (or allow) on average.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:52 am
  

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Razorwing wrote:
they haven't broken any of the character creation rules.

Yea, the rules allow for this and there are differing opinions about it, some very strong opinions.

If they are going to need so much SDC off the bat, then you can consider giving them an SDC bonus right off the bat so that they can build characters that are more dynamic and, possibly, that make sense. Like I said, if you have a boxing mage, when does he train in between all his magely pursuits? It has to make sense the skills they take. Also, if they are taking so many physical skills, then those are valuable skill slots that could have been used for other things such as Detect Ambush, Land Navigation, and Wilderness Survival - instead they got Boxing, Tae Bo, and Body Building - and no time for any of them, and when they are wandering lost int he woods and their CamelBaks have run dry, they are entering a very dangerous situation without a single shot fired.

That or dial back the power and danger of the challenges early in the game. More specifically, the physical power and danger of the challenges.

It is a matter of playstyle, too. High power, hack and slash, et cetera.

As for how many Physical Skills (that have significant bonuses not including things like swimming and prowl): 1 maybe 2 at most. Any skill player selects must be justified, otherwise, the player cannot select it. So a character that grew up on the mean streets cannot have Acrobatics because the character never had the opportunity to learn the skill. That character is also likely not able to pick up the Technical Writing skill either, for example. They need balance and diversity in skills and loading up on Physical Skills is, as was mentioned already, very dangerous in many campaigns simply because they lack the skills to overcome most challenges they will be facing.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:46 am
  

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Quote:
they got Boxing, Tae Bo, and Body Building - and no time for any of them,


i agree. its hard to imagine a wizard waking up every day and doing 200 push ups and sit ups. its actually hard to imagine a wizard doing a single sit up lol

if you take a bunch of physical skills at level one, the rest of your skills will suffer in the long run. (your level one skills will always be your highest level skills in the end). also taking physical skills as primary skills is bad because you get bonuses on your primary skills, none of which apply to physical skills.

if your wilderness survival guy (for example) doesnt take wilderness survival until he gets a chance to pick more skills (usually around level 3) his skill level will be roughly half of what it would be if he took it at level one, by the time he gets to level 6. level 6 is when leveling really starts to slow down to a crawl (in my games at least) and you dont really have much chance of your skills going up much any time soon.

imo the earlier the better for taking core skills. physical skills can be taken as secondary skills any time without costing you a primary slot and its potential bonus. my current group sat down and made our characters as a group, makig sure to have all bases covered between the 3 of us (fighting, healing, magic specialists, with basic thief and ranger skills).


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:03 am
  

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I've got no problem with it, it just trades off physical for mental flexibility.

I don't get what you guys are on about with 'in character'. Why should a guy whose P.S. goes from say 12 to 14 have to do 200 push ups, adventuring is rigourous enough and it affects the base.ie A guy who used to body build is always stronger than a similar guy who does not even if he doesn't keep it up. (just believe me).

Also so what about the skills background thing, no one needs to learn acrobatics perse, some people can do backflips without any formal training in backflips (just takes guts).

Now let me ask you why a guy who has a body building skill that never gets better with level has to maintain his skills, yet certain classes can pick the MD skill with an IQ of 3 and no penalty, and a guy who picks radio:scrambler gets a 5% bonus at level up regardless of whether he used it or not or practised it or anything. It is more rigourous to keep mental skills in top form than physical skills for most people. Not to mention most OCCs with medical doctor skill get to 98% pretty damn quick too.

As for your player's characters Razorwing, I wouldn't limit their choices but you might like to remind them that bodybuilding might not be as useful as cryptography when they are trying to decode the enemies radio chatter.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:34 am
  

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i find that most of my players select physical skills because they provide an immediate benefit for having them. while most other skills just don't often apply or are some what useless as far as gaining any benefit from having them.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:17 am
  

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Quote:
ie A guy who used to body build is always stronger than a similar guy who does not even if he doesn't keep it up. (just believe me).


at the peak of your bodybuilding training you can lift X number of pounds. if you stop doing it for a year you will find you cant lift X number of pounds any more. if you want to be able to lift x number of pounds again you have to start training again.

you are right though. assuming that taking the bodybuilding skill implies that you trained a lot then stopped your training to go adventuring. it does make you stronger overall. maybe the skill description should say that if the character intentionally keeps practicing (in current game time), that he should get a bigger PS bonus? or a growing one? (+1 per level?)

i was also specifically talking about a wizard doing pushups every morning being hard to imagine. the palladium fantasy book describes them as being repulsed by physical activities. i realize all characters are different but imagine gandalf doing 200 push ups before breakfast.

oh, and over the years i have spent a lot of time wondering how a guy with iq 3 can take some skills, but luckily most of my players have been responsible in that regard. :-D


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:18 am
  

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t0m wrote:
my current group sat down and made our characters as a group, makig sure to have all bases covered between the 3 of us (fighting, healing, magic specialists, with basic thief and ranger skills).

This is a great way to make characters. It's fun and it ensures team work :D


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:28 am
  

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How is that any different than any skill. It does not have to be a Physical Skill to apply this thinking. All skills go up wether you use them or not.

If you take Chemistry and then do nothing with it for a year, you will forget. But its not accounted for any more than Physical skills.

If anything Scholastic Skills are more abusive in this matter than Physical since most Physical skills do not progress but only give immediate results.

And besides , is it really that big of a deal. Even if someone takes Boxing, Wresting, Running, Athletics, Gymnastics, and Acrobatics. What do they gain?

A Massive plus 2 PP, 5 PE and 8 PS ?

SDC bonuses are decent, but hardly over powering.

Now lets consider something useful, Automotive Mechanic.

This skill goes up even if you do not use it. Level 1 you are an average Mechanic, you dont use it until after your level 4, but suddenly, you are a great mechanic.

Short Answer.

If someone wants max Physical, big deal. Its probably more realistic in ALL cases anyway, since the more Scholastic Skills you have, the more skills that go up in ability, despite lack of use. At least the physcial benefits are always a benefit, despite never having the ability to get better.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:42 am
  

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You completely lost me.

As for what is wrong with all Physical skills. Nothing is wrong with it, specifically. Although it may be an indication of a problem elsewhere.

I happen to think it creates undynamic boring characters that are ill prepared to face a lot of the challenges they are going to face. It also leads to characters that do not make sense. In my opinion such characters do not make sense. In other opinions, maybe they do. Nonetheless I think that fighter mages belong in that other game. Fighting is a pursuit and way of life. Magic is a pursuit and way of life. You cannot do both. PFRPG 1e handled that very well.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:44 am
  

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lather wrote:
You completely lost me.

As for what is wrong with all Physical skills. Nothing is wrong with it, specifically. Although it may be an indication of a problem elsewhere.

I happen to think it creates undynamic boring characters that are ill prepared to face a lot of the challenges they are going to face. It also leads to characters that do not make sense. In my opinion such characters do not make sense. In other opinions, maybe they do. Nonetheless I think that fighter mages belong in that other game. Fighting is a pursuit and way of life. Magic is a pursuit and way of life. You cannot do both. PFRPG 1e handled that very well.


except when you consider such things as the battle magus and what not.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:50 am
  

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EPIC wrote:
except when you consider such things as the battle magus and what not.

That is not min-maxing, dual classing, and what not. Assuming the rules of the OCC make sense, then having a mage that knows how to kick the teeth out of my head makes sense.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:03 pm
  

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Also consider the Combat Mage from that Merc Book. He had weaker magic and combat skills than a Mage or Men At Arms OCC but he could do both. That is an OCC that made sense to me.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:06 pm
  

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Rifts Earth is a a physical world, a battle torn world.

It makes perfect sense for anyone who is an adventurer, regardless of their OCC, to have Physical skills. No matter what class you are, you will always use what is gained from them.

Where as, no matter what class you are, you will never use all of your other skills as often. Yet Ironically, it is all the other skills that progress regardless of usage.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:40 pm
  

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Beatleguise wrote:
Rifts Earth is a a physical world, a battle torn world.

Yea, it's all in where you strike the balance.

Beatleguise wrote:
Where as, no matter what class you are, you will never use all of your other skills as often.

Disagree. Scientists, operators, cyber docs, wilderness scouts, .... at least should be making extensive use of their scientific, mechanical, medical, and wilderness skills more than toeing the front line with grunts and infantry. Otherwise, what's the point of having OCCs at all?

Beatleguise wrote:
Yet Ironically, it is all the other skills that progress regardless of usage.

Yea so if I sit down and do a book of algebra word problems my swimming proficiency goes up, too!? This way does keep things simple, perhaps too simple.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:52 pm
  

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A legitimate complaint would be that skills should progress based on usage.

Yet all we ever hear about are the Physical skills, which in truth are used by ALL adventurers and never get any better.

They are the wrong skills to be complaining about.

I am amazed at the backwardness of these arguments.

Oh and Math is a great example. Almost everyone has it, and nobody ever uses it, yet they all become experts eventually. It must be osmosis.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:02 pm
  

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Rules for using and altering character attributes are notably sparse in Palladium games.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:14 pm
  

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lather wrote:
Rules for using and altering character attributes are notably sparse in Palladium games.


so are rules on how some skills are to be used.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:28 pm
  

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Takes notes how you use the skills so at least your games will be consistent.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:43 pm
  

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Beatleguise wrote:
Oh and Math is a great example. Almost everyone has it, and nobody ever uses it, yet they all become experts eventually. It must be osmosis.


This line shows the major difference between my games and yours, as my players have had to use Math skill a lot! I have even had them make math rolls to see if they can even figure out the guy they just bought a rifle from overcharged them a few thousand credits! Without the math skill how would they know?!

I set up my games to use skills very very often. My games are definitely not hack n slash combat scenes through the whole thing.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:46 pm
  

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NulSyn wrote:
Beatleguise wrote:
Oh and Math is a great example. Almost everyone has it, and nobody ever uses it, yet they all become experts eventually. It must be osmosis.


This line shows the major difference between my games and yours, as my players have had to use Math skill a lot! I have even had them make math rolls to see if they can even figure out the guy they just bought a rifle from overcharged them a few thousand credits! Without the math skill how would they know?!

I set up my games to use skills very very often. My games are definitely not hack n slash combat scenes through the whole thing.

That is an extremely common use of the Math skill - probably the primary use of the skill, especially in a rough and tumble world such as Rifts. But even skill heavy campaigns may not flex every skill often. There are only so many opportunities to be an Escape Artist.

And just because a Math skill is not extensively used, I think we should avoid making the leap straight away to hack and slash.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:53 pm
  

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lather wrote:
NulSyn wrote:
Beatleguise wrote:
Oh and Math is a great example. Almost everyone has it, and nobody ever uses it, yet they all become experts eventually. It must be osmosis.


This line shows the major difference between my games and yours, as my players have had to use Math skill a lot! I have even had them make math rolls to see if they can even figure out the guy they just bought a rifle from overcharged them a few thousand credits! Without the math skill how would they know?!

I set up my games to use skills very very often. My games are definitely not hack n slash combat scenes through the whole thing.

That is an extremely common use of the Math skill - probably the primary use of the skill, especially in a rough and tumble world such as Rifts. But even skill heavy campaigns may not flex every skill often. There are only so many opportunities to be an Escape Artist.

And just because a Math skill is not extensively used, I think we should avoid making the leap straight away to hack and slash.


Also in my games, my players have used roughly 75-90% of their skills at some point before leveling up. Not much goes by not being used. Another thing I do though, is that the players are stuck with the HtH given by their Occ, no buying it up higher. Makes the choosing of ones occ and what thy are good for a bit more important. I did it mainly cause every single one of my players would have martial arts or assassin, and would kind of throw character concepts out the window.

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Last edited by NulSyn on Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:54 pm
  

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NulSyn wrote:
Another thing I do though, is that the players are stuck with the HtH given by their Occ, no buying it up higher. Makes the choosing of ones occ and what thy are good for a bit more divided. I did it mainly cause every single one of my players would have martial arts or assassin, and would kind of through character concepts out the window.

:ok:


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:57 pm
  

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Also I did not mean to sound like I was saying the posters games were all hack n slash. Just that mine are no where near hack n slash.

I have had 8 hours sessions go by with no absolutely no combat, but plenty of skill rolling!! :)

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:01 pm
  

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:20 pm
  

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Beatleguise wrote:
How is that any different than any skill. It does not have to be a Physical Skill to apply this thinking. All skills go up wether you use them or not.


i totally agree with you here. its messed up to assume any skill will go up without use.

i also agree with epic about some of the skills not having a very well defined description of their usage..

Quote:
Where as, no matter what class you are, you will never use all of your other skills as often.


in our small group we tend to use our skills very regularly. keep in mind we are playing the fantasy setting, where there are less occs and skills in general (compared to rifts anyway). if we didnt pick and regularly use the skills we have our group wouldnt be around any more. instead we would be endlessly trying to find our way out of the woods, or dying from infections from poorly treated wounds, or starving to death because no one without training is likely to be able to catch food in the wild, or even id an edible plant. i guess everyone plays a different game though...


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:28 pm
  

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There are ways to raise skills without using them. That's where study comes in.

"My character hits the local store for the latest technical material to keep his skills up to date."

All taken care of.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:30 pm
  

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Playboy's writing about robot mechanics now? :P


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:58 pm
  

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Sure. Build your own android sex-bot.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:59 pm
  

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"I've been tweaking my android sex bot the last couple of months."

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:38 am
  

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That would be "Very Popular Mechanics"! :lol:

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:32 am
  

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lather wrote:
You completely lost me.

As for what is wrong with all Physical skills. Nothing is wrong with it, specifically. Although it may be an indication of a problem elsewhere.

I happen to think it creates undynamic boring characters that are ill prepared to face a lot of the challenges they are going to face. It also leads to characters that do not make sense. In my opinion such characters do not make sense. In other opinions, maybe they do. Nonetheless I think that fighter mages belong in that other game. Fighting is a pursuit and way of life. Magic is a pursuit and way of life. You cannot do both. PFRPG 1e handled that very well.


I don't know about that, I'm a lab supervisor by night and a gym junkie/martial arts enthusiast by day. People don't have to be geeks or jocks, you can actually be a geek and a jock at the same time. Just takes more effort. :)

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:54 am
  

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mattyj77 wrote:
I don't know about that, I'm a lab supervisor by night and a gym junkie/martial arts enthusiast by day. People don't have to be geeks or jocks, you can actually be a geek and a jock at the same time. Just takes more effort. :)


True enough mattyj77 ^^

I myself am a geek and I play in a Rockband and I am a ma instructor ;-)
Well then I am old enough and had plenty o time to do all this...
and I start to become lazy :-D


Back to topic...
right now I have started a RIFTS adventure where I made all the player chars for my players (asked them a few things what the like to play (physical or more esotheric, male or female etc)
I have chosen all the important skills for their chars and just let them chose the secondary skills...
they started with a complete amnesia and it is really funny for them to discover who they are, what they are capable of and why they cant remember anything...

I have the luck that the players (2 guys and 2 gals) are exceptional roleplayers...
I have covered all the skills for them and they have a blast
(should have seen the Shifter when he first met his familiar (a small D-Bee like Marten/Monkey/Sabretooth animal)


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:46 am
  

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mattyj77 wrote:
lather wrote:
You completely lost me.

As for what is wrong with all Physical skills. Nothing is wrong with it, specifically. Although it may be an indication of a problem elsewhere.

I happen to think it creates undynamic boring characters that are ill prepared to face a lot of the challenges they are going to face. It also leads to characters that do not make sense. In my opinion such characters do not make sense. In other opinions, maybe they do. Nonetheless I think that fighter mages belong in that other game. Fighting is a pursuit and way of life. Magic is a pursuit and way of life. You cannot do both. PFRPG 1e handled that very well.


I don't know about that, I'm a lab supervisor by night and a gym junkie/martial arts enthusiast by day. People don't have to be geeks or jocks, you can actually be a geek and a jock at the same time. Just takes more effort. :)

So when do you have time to adventure for treasure and wealth to keep your power armour maintained and in good condition?

Also, combat scientists and operators already built into the game and I already said I have no problem with them. However, a Rogue Scientist player should have his or her character doing Rogue Scientist things more than Full Conversion Cyborg things.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:47 am
  

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The fantasy setting has far less diversity. Skills are more closely related and in lesser number. Seeing all skills being used is far more common. Personally I like the fantasy setting as it is more cut and dry

RIFTS is all encompassing. Characters tend to not only have a LOT more skills, but far more variety of them.

Some skills likewise, are not necessarily skills you have to use. They are basic knowledge skills that allow the characters to have and use their more advanced skills.

Basic Math (Just for example). This is a rudimentary skill requirement to be able to use higher skills like Mechanical Engineering. Simply by using the Mechanical Engineering Skill, you are likewise keeping up on basic math.

There is no reason to force use of these basic skills, when you can be making use of the higher ones. Unless a player actually comes up with something they want to do, that requires it. But that is a personal preference of course.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:48 pm
  

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Razorwing wrote:
I've recently seen a trend in my games of players taking quite a few Physical Skills at 1st level. On average, we're talking about between 1/4 and 1/2 of their Related and Secondary skill selections.
Well, that's easy. Most of the time it's silly NOT to.

Boxing=Who can't use another action per round, no matter WHAT you do?
Arcobatics and gymnastics=you get 6 skills AND stat bonuses, what better way to use a skill.
Swimming=really smart people drown just as well as dumb ones.
Running=more movements options. (The medic would LIKE to get to you, but it'll take a while with a spd of 5)
Prowl=sneaking good, nuff said.
fencing=An extra d6 damage with a sword, if a use a sword, might as well do more damage.
Other physical skills=any stat you get to 16+ gives you bonuses.

Now i'm not saying you should gimp your character and not take the skills needed to do what your character should be able to, but physical skills give so many benefits right at the start.

Razorwing wrote:
However, a Rogue Scientist player should have his or her character doing Rogue Scientist things more than Full Conversion Cyborg things.
Why? Who said he even LIKES what his "job" is. Maybe he became a Rogue Scientist to please his parents (both Rogue Scientist themselves), but he always wanted to be a kung-fu fighter. Why should someone be straightjacketed into taking skills that other people think he should? And who said that the Full Conversion Cyborg WANTED to be one? He could be MORE interested in scientific matters that the scientist. There just isn't one cookie cutter way for an OCC to be.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:01 pm
  

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Then why have OCCs at all for that matter?


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:54 pm
  

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In regards to the OP, even my players that are "non-combat" have taken a couple of physical skills. But the only ones that are hitting the 1/4 mark are combat characters and have a background that allows for and includes extensive physical training.

Any time they start thinking they need a pile of combat bonuses, I start rethinking my strategies since that's usually not necessary in my games.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:04 pm
  

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Like I said, usually an indication that something has gone wrong somewhere.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:51 pm
  

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I gotta agree with lather.

I run my games heavily around skill usage and smart play. My players shouldn't need to take a ton of physical skills.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:09 pm
  

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CaptRory wrote:
I gotta agree with lather.

Yay for me! :D


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:37 pm
  

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lather wrote:
Then why have OCCs at all for that matter?
I don't know, MAYBE the core skills and abilities? 8-) All other skills are character picks for a reason.

CaptRory wrote:
I run my games heavily around skill usage and smart play. My players shouldn't need to take a ton of physical skills.
That's fine but most physical skills have non-combat uses. Boxing gives you one more action per round, swiming, running, climbing, prowl acrobatics and gymnastics are great ways to AVOID combat. Only fencing, body building, aerobics, ect just give combat bonuses. There should be as much chance to use tightrope walking as cardsharp, or AI. There should be "smart" skill usage for physical skills too. Unless no one is ever expected to hide, climb, swim or run anywere in your game.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:43 pm
  

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You know very well the discussion was about adding up physical skills for the physical bonuses and not taking them to legitimately round out a character.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:58 pm
  

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CaptRory wrote:
You know very well the discussion was about adding up physical skills for the physical bonuses and not taking them to legitimately round out a character.
You said that characters shouldn't take "tons of physical skills" didn't you? There are very few that can't be used in rounding out a character. Again, boxing gymnastics/acrobatics, climbing, running, swiming are all useful skills WITHOUT the bonuses. If you have a problem with too many bonuses, just place a cap on the total bonuses you can get. (one of the rifters had one)


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Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:30 am
  

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Its a pointless argument anyway. You do not get that many stat bonuses.

All you get from Physical Skills is 2 PP , 5 PE and 8 to 10 PS.
And the bonuses to Speed or even SDc are hardly enough to off balance a game.

As I see it

Everyone should have Swimming.
Athletics and Running are going to be common skills.
Boxing and either Gymnastics or Acrobatics. (Heavy Combatants might have both.) Ocassionally Wresting.

It is very rare you see someone take more than these 4 to 6 skills, and if they do, it is not going to give them much, as it only takes 4 Physical Skills to get 90 % of the bonuses.


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Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:06 am
  

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elecgraystone wrote:
lather wrote:
Then why have OCCs at all for that matter?
I don't know, MAYBE the core skills and abilities? 8-) All other skills are character picks for a reason.

In other words, we have OCCs to facilitate min-maxing.


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