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 Post subject: Question about Dragons?
Unread postPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 1:53 pm
  

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Just wondering if you guys know if Dragons are considered reptiles and cold blooded?

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Unread postPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 2:45 pm
  

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We were just running a campaign where 3 of the 5 party members went invis or shadow meld. Just wondering if the Dragon which could be cold blooded? May remain undetected if the dragon was cold blooded if the opponents were using heat sensors.

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Unread postPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 3:13 pm
  

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Warm blooded.

Dragon Blood is not only poisonous but steaming (sometimes scalding) hot.

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Unread postPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 3:21 pm
  

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sawg138 wrote:
cornholioprime wrote:
Warm blooded.

Dragon Blood is not only poisonous but steaming (sometimes scalding) hot.

Isn't that just the fire dragon from RUE?
I don't have RUE (yet).

I was quoting readings from other texts including Palladium Books Presents Gods and Dragons (which includes conversion notes for Rifts™)....

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Unread postPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 9:05 pm
  

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Hero

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Definitely warm blooded.


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Unread postPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 11:59 pm
  

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walross1978 wrote:
Just wondering if you guys know if Dragons are considered reptiles and cold blooded?


Nope, they're warm-blooded mammals.

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Unread postPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 1:28 am
  

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Warm blooded and when wounded the blood is scalding hot for the few moments ( may be longer, I dont have the books in front of me ATM).


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Unread postPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 2:52 am
  

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Tinker Dragoon wrote:
walross1978 wrote:
Just wondering if you guys know if Dragons are considered reptiles and cold blooded?


Nope, they're warm-blooded mammals.


well if they have any possisile relation to dinosaurs (which has been hinted at a few times) then they are not mammals, but warm blooded archosaurs


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Unread postPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 2:53 am
  

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Tinker Dragoon wrote:
walross1978 wrote:
Just wondering if you guys know if Dragons are considered reptiles and cold blooded?


Nope, they're warm-blooded mammals.
I don't think a dragons a mammal, warm blooded ya but not a mammal. :-D

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Unread postPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 7:07 pm
  

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They are specifically stated to be mammals in the books. Apparently, they're monotremes, like the platypus and echidna.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 2:04 am
  

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I'm not so sure a dragon would be a considered a mammal?

Isn't one of the main characteristics of being a mammal having body hair? Unless your speaking about the Wooly Dragon... I don't see much body hair on a dragon.

Also another main criteria is that the females have mammary glands(produce milk). So where are the dragon breasts? So does drinking dragon milk give you supernatural strength?

Dragons lay eggs & most mammals don't lay eggs.

(The platypus and echidna which are the only two mammals that lay eggs.) I personally think those two species are incorrectly classified. (Enchidna's don't have teeth, which is needed to be classified as a mammal.)


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 3:29 am
  

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I think the milk producing is the only mammal criteria and you don't need breast for this as milk oozing between skin joints (or in this case between scales) counts. I think the criteria for mammal couldn't be reached because dragons don't raise their young, instead imparting knowledge psychically and abandoning before birth.

The onlt other fixed criteria are a cerain type of joint for the jaw and a midle ear bone

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Unread postPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 5:47 am
  

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Yep...but all and all...a dragon is a supernatural creature like many other weird and stranger monsters in Palladium Fantasy and really don't qualify for any of the normal animal classifications.

I don't think science has even considered breathing fire, teleportation, or the number of other worldly abilities and powers for animal classifications.


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 9:23 am
  

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Lukterran wrote:
I'm not so sure a dragon would be a considered a mammal?

Isn't one of the main characteristics of being a mammal having body hair? Unless your speaking about the Wooly Dragon... I don't see much body hair on a dragon.

Also another main criteria is that the females have mammary glands(produce milk). So where are the dragon breasts? So does drinking dragon milk give you supernatural strength?

Dragons lay eggs & most mammals don't lay eggs.

(The platypus and echidna which are the only two mammals that lay eggs.) I personally think those two species are incorrectly classified. (Enchidna's don't have teeth, which is needed to be classified as a mammal.)


They are stated to be mammals though, so if we're going by the books, then they're mammals, weird as it may be.

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Unread postPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 10:26 pm
  

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Lukterran wrote:
I'm not so sure a dragon would be a considered a mammal?

Isn't one of the main characteristics of being a mammal having body hair? Unless your speaking about the Wooly Dragon... I don't see much body hair on a dragon.

Also another main criteria is that the females have mammary glands(produce milk). So where are the dragon breasts? So does drinking dragon milk give you supernatural strength?

Dragons lay eggs & most mammals don't lay eggs.

(The platypus and echidna which are the only two mammals that lay eggs.) I personally think those two species are incorrectly classified. (Enchidna's don't have teeth, which is needed to be classified as a mammal.)


regardless of logic, The book clearly states they are mamals.

Therefore, Mammals are something different in Rifts :)


Maybe humans are called reptiles...

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 10:43 pm
  

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I would say that Dragons are nether mamale nor reptiles, they are Creatures of Magic, so don't folllow what bounderies mundains fall into.


But if the book says they are mammals then they are warm blooded.

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 Post subject: coldblooded dragons
Unread postPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 6:59 am
  

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Dragons would in my opinion vary according to species in their body temperature. A fire dragon would have very hot blood, while an ice dragon's blood definitely be cold.(In a story in the Rifter, it mentions a temperature close to that of liquid nitrogen.) I'd make a great horned dragon just plain old ectothermic,but suffer no ill effects from cold. And as far as I'm concerned, they lay eggs and are similar to reptiles.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 9:35 am
  

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First, dragon are creatures of magic, second a dragon is according to the books a mammal and third, cold blooded depends on the species like an Ice Dragon.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 3:37 pm
  

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"Cold-blooded" is kind of a misnomer. If the the OP meant cold-blooded as "does the dragon need to rely on external sources for it's internal body temperature", then I dragons are warm blooded. If the OP meant "is a dragon's blood physically cold", then I would say the answer varies (Ice dragon is cold, fire dragon is hot, etc.).

Warm and cold blooded don't really refer to the temperate of the blood, but to the body's ability to regulate it's own temperature. Mammals regulate their own temperature, reptiles do not. Dragon = mammal...dragon = warm-blooded.

Also, it's don't let the scales fool you into thinking it can't be a mammal.
Example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangolin

This concludes our biology lesson for the day.

Also, they're Creatures of Magic...who cares how their bodies function?


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 10:39 pm
  

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And lots of things lay eggs and maintain a consistent body temperature - birds. As to platypus and echidnas being misclassfied, they aren't. They're mammals for a variety of reasons that separate them from reptiles, like fur and milk production for instance.


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 1:02 am
  

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Lukterran wrote:
I'm not so sure a dragon would be a considered a mammal?

Isn't one of the main characteristics of being a mammal having body hair? Unless your speaking about the Wooly Dragon... I don't see much body hair on a dragon.

Also another main criteria is that the females have mammary glands(produce milk). So where are the dragon breasts? So does drinking dragon milk give you supernatural strength?

Dragons lay eggs & most mammals don't lay eggs.

(The platypus and echidna which are the only two mammals that lay eggs.) I personally think those two species are incorrectly classified. (Enchidna's don't have teeth, which is needed to be classified as a mammal.)


no it is having mamary glands aka breasts. which you listed, but that is the only requirment. hiar, teeth and live birth do not automatically exclude something from being a mammal


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 1:09 am
  

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heck lets agree to disagree. dragons are birds, therefore archosaurs like crocodiles and dinosaurs. most scientst to day consider birds to be archosaurs. Why do i say this. they are warmblooded (so are birds), they lay eggs (so do birds), they have scales (so do birds), and even though dragons dont have feathers, they are not a requirment to be a bird.


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Unread postPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:55 am
  

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Unread postPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 11:30 am
  

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Tinker Dragoon wrote:
walross1978 wrote:
Just wondering if you guys know if Dragons are considered reptiles and cold blooded?


Nope, they're warm-blooded mammals.


They are not mammals they do not feed their young milk.

They are warm blooded reptiles.

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Unread postPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:34 pm
  

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Greyaxe wrote:
Tinker Dragoon wrote:
walross1978 wrote:
Just wondering if you guys know if Dragons are considered reptiles and cold blooded?


Nope, they're warm-blooded mammals.


They are not mammals they do not feed their young milk.

They are warm blooded reptiles.


or birds :-D


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Unread postPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 10:59 pm
  

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duck-foot wrote:
Greyaxe wrote:
Tinker Dragoon wrote:
walross1978 wrote:
Just wondering if you guys know if Dragons are considered reptiles and cold blooded?


Nope, they're warm-blooded mammals.


They are not mammals they do not feed their young milk.

They are warm blooded reptiles.


or birds :-D
None of the above...sort of.

They don't nurse their young (nor do they have mammaries in the first place), so they're not mammals.

They are not creatures specifically adapted for flight, nor do they have feathers, ultra-light endoskeletons nor even wings of sufficient size to keep aloft their massive bodies (in fact, canon states them as being at home even in a vacuum, which suggests magically propelled flight even thought they still do need functioning wings to do so), so they're not birds.

And nothing besides their general shape and scales even suggests that they're repitles; certainly they're not cold-blooded as we understand the term in the real world, nor are their brains hardwired or primitive (reptiles don't have things like pleasure centers or even the so-called Rat Brain).

In short, Dragons are cool creatures that serve only the purposes of Kevin introducing his version of the most "beloved/famous" monster in all of fantasy gaming....and like most things in Gaming in general and Palladium Books :D in particular, they fall short under real-world scientific scrutiny.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:27 am
  

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If you value your life and/or sanity you'll never ever refer to a Dragon as reptile, mammal, bird or whatever.
Usually "master", "oh great shiny glory" or "Most exquisite fiery death from above." will keep you alive.

:lol: :-D :lol:


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:16 pm
  

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cutlass wrote:
If you value your life and/or sanity you'll never ever refer to a Dragon as reptile, mammal, bird or whatever.
Usually "master", "oh great shiny glory" or "Most exquisite fiery death from above." will keep you alive.

:lol: :-D :lol:
NOW you're talking.

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18 Thy Military be run by Fools and Dotards.

19 Yet thy Nation suffers not. Praise be unto Him that protects thee from all harm!!


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Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:18 pm
  

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Lukterran wrote:
I'm not so sure a dragon would be a considered a mammal?

Isn't one of the main characteristics of being a mammal having body hair? Unless your speaking about the Wooly Dragon... I don't see much body hair on a dragon.

Also another main criteria is that the females have mammary glands(produce milk). So where are the dragon breasts? So does drinking dragon milk give you supernatural strength?

Dragons lay eggs & most mammals don't lay eggs.

(The platypus and echidna which are the only two mammals that lay eggs.) I personally think those two species are incorrectly classified. (Enchidna's don't have teeth, which is needed to be classified as a mammal.)

Dragons fail the 'mammal' test at an even more fundamental level, since they're not even tetrapods. Three limb girdles does not a mammal make; of course, this also completely excludes them from being amphibians, reptiles, dinosaurs, and avians as well. :lol:

Now, canon (as of Palladium Fantasy at least) says they're mammals, which I assume to be a case of simplification on the part of the writers. It's easier to label them 'mammals' than 'warm-blooded, mammal-like supernatural creatures that resemble reptiles' or somesuch. :D Warm-bloodedness isn't a unique trait to mammals, anyway: the birds are warm blooded, as were (possibly) the dinosaurs, and some modern-day reptiles are part-time warm blooded (weird as that is).

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