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Unread postPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 10:37 pm
  

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Explorer

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I just got some pretty cool botched-spell tables, and was wanting to put them in play ('cause they look fun). So, I figured I should check to see if anyone has anything to say about this sort of thing. I know critical failure is pretty much just house rules for palladium, but a lot of people do it.

The critical spell failure tables are used when a caster's concentration is interrupted, or is wearing hindering armor, or lacks the PPE, or when the GM says they get used.

Let me know your thoughts, please!


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Unread postPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 10:56 pm
  

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Wanderer

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I don't think critical failure tables of any kind serve a valid storytelling function, and I'm not a fan.

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Unread postPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 10:56 pm
  

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Might be fun if they aren't too bad or aren't over used.

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Unread postPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 11:06 pm
  

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Quote:
Might be fun if they aren't too bad or aren't over used.


Ya, something like this only gets used once every few gaming sessions, if even that much.


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Unread postPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 11:12 pm
  

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My suggestion:

Use them sparingly and thematicly. "Randomly" determine the effect behind your screen and select something that works to develop the mood you want.

Make it a random element instead of necessarily a negative one.

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Unread postPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 12:51 am
  

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Hero

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seems to me that NO ONE actually ever 'flubs' or fails a spell.

you could before in the other d20 games from years ago ... but now? .. nevber happens. you cast a spell .. the other team casts the counter IMMEDIATELY ..

so .. there you go
*shrugs*

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Unread postPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 1:31 am
  

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I have used spell failure, but as an effect counter. I roll to see how well the universe responds to the casting. Conditions are not always favorable to a spell. Otherwise, as lond as the spell casting durations are uninterrupted the character can get the spell off. mind you there might be quite the few interruptions.

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Unread postPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 1:46 am
  

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Knight

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never use em


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Unread postPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 12:22 pm
  

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Palladin

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Aren't too many spells you have to roll on, except maybe a few of the "point and shoots".

What are you...a Rolemaster fiend ? ;)

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Unread postPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 3:40 pm
  

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Oops, I realized that because of some house rules, spell cancellation is more common place in our campaign. Sorry about that, thanks for your input anyway.

We do a 20 second round, and what you roll on initiative tells where you fall in that 20 second countdown. So, if a wizard is casting a firebolt, which takes 7 seconds to release, and his initiative was 15, it's not going off until 8. Any opponent with an action on 9-14 has a chance of interrupting, if he's aware of the firebolt coming.

Actions/attacks get spread out over the round. So, if you have 5 attacks and you roll 20 initiative you go on 20, 16, 12, 8, and 4 (or if you rolled a 3, you go on 3, 2 and 1 and you lose 2 attacks because of your low roll).
So, their are lots of opportunities for spell failure. A mage needs to be played smart; cast from an advantage point, protect you self, whatever, just don't go toe to toe with a longbowman, he'll shoot you in the throat before you can cast a single spell.

If I end up trying these critical failure tables it will probably go something like- with an interruption there is a 40% chance, -5% per level, +10% if wearing metal armor that you roll on the table.

Again, sorry if my question was irrelevant, with there being no spell failure in the palladium game.


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Unread postPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 4:34 pm
  

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Palladin

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twhaley wrote:
Again, sorry if my question was irrelevant, with there being no spell failure in the palladium game.


oh, I'm just joshing with you. There are some spells that are "point and shoot" like Electric Arc, Lightning Arc + Fire Gout so an attack roll is needed.

however most of the time in Rifts a 1 just means an automatic miss.

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Unread postPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 5:24 pm
  

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Virtuoso of Variants

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Comment: "Your inferiority complex might be justified."
Of course, if you want to be a jerk, critical failure can mean the wrongwords get spoken or you somehow offend the gods who make magic possible. "You called me WHAT?"

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Unread postPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 9:13 pm
  

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Hero

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Comment: I see people as people first, anything else is secondary
you know .. it would be interesting IF in the heat of hte battle ... the GM asks standard mage to roll 'lore - magic' .. to ensure that they DONT mess up on the spell.

i think the only ones that would be immune to that particular roll at that time would be the BattleMage

maybe its just me? ... might be humorous to see then, to have the GM explain WHAT just happened .. most likely, the spell would just ~fizzle~ and burn off the required PPE .. but only if you failed ..

so a simple 'yes or no, did you pass the check?' .. and if there is an unknown negative, such as the other is a higher level mage .. a battlemage .. or has devices that assist in protection against spell attacks ...

opens the door to a world of possiblities .. if you take them up on it :)

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Creator of the Chi grenade. Used in game by Kevarin [GM] and self as Mai - Civilian Martial artist that got amped via experiment. Ghost weapons and shirts rule.

Nano Missiles - used once and GM banned further use. They weren't THAT bad. and did stop a demon scout ship from returning with valuable info.


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Unread postPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 10:43 pm
  

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Knight

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Take a look at "Through the glass darkly" if you can find a copy of it (best book done for any palladium game...EVER!). The author had many ideas (no tables) for what may happen if spells go...bad :twisted:

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Unread postPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 9:53 am
  

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Champion

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twhaley wrote:
I just got some pretty cool botched-spell tables, and was wanting to put them in play ('cause they look fun). So, I figured I should check to see if anyone has anything to say about this sort of thing. I know critical failure is pretty much just house rules for palladium, but a lot of people do it.

The critical spell failure tables are used when a caster's concentration is interrupted, or is wearing hindering armor, or lacks the PPE, or when the GM says they get used.

Let me know your thoughts, please!


I never use critical failures of any kind in Rifts, or any Palladium game.

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Unread postPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 10:57 am
  

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Hero

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DhAkael wrote:
Take a look at "Through the glass darkly" if you can find a copy of it (best book done for any palladium game...EVER!). The author had many ideas (no tables) for what may happen if spells go...bad :twisted:


well ... that's Nightbane stuff .. and its usually never used in the multiverse. usually.

that being said, i'm glad that SOMEONE at some time, put some actual thought into the possibility of something going wrong at the time.

so i guess those things would come into play when 'designing a new spell ... or 'learning' or perhaps 'buying' a random spell. after all, if the inflections of tone or on the right combination of sounds isn't right .. you could say 'Spontaneous Self-Combustion' .. versus the standard 'Sponatious Combustion' .. and literally burn yourself up. and sadly that is one spell you would NOT be immune to

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Creator of the Chi grenade. Used in game by Kevarin [GM] and self as Mai - Civilian Martial artist that got amped via experiment. Ghost weapons and shirts rule.

Nano Missiles - used once and GM banned further use. They weren't THAT bad. and did stop a demon scout ship from returning with valuable info.


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Unread postPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 12:32 pm
  

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Knight

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shiiv-a wrote:
well ... that's Nightbane stuff .. and its usually never used in the multiverse. usually.

that being said, i'm glad that SOMEONE at some time, put some actual thought into the possibility of something going wrong at the time.

so i guess those things would come into play when 'designing a new spell ... or 'learning' or perhaps 'buying' a random spell. after all, if the inflections of tone or on the right combination of sounds isn't right .. you could say 'Spontaneous Self-Combustion' .. versus the standard 'Sponatious Combustion' .. and literally burn yourself up. and sadly that is one spell you would NOT be immune to


-ahem-
Yes.. TtGD is a Nightbane book, but all the concepts in there can be applied to magic in ANY PBooks setting.
I especialy love the 'semi-sentient living mgic' that can spontaeneously occour when too much PPE is used, or if the spell caster REALLY FUBAR's :lol: :lol:

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Bind the body to the opened mind
Bind the body to the opened mind

I dream of towers in a world consumed
A void in the sentient sky
I dream of fissures across the moon
Leaves of the lotus rise


~Dream Again By Miracle of Sound


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Unread postPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:04 pm
  

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Hero

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Comment: I see people as people first, anything else is secondary
....

oh ...
well ...

*sigh*

it was worth a shot. shows everyone \how smart i really am. that being said ... i think its time to go think about a TW char now. never actually tried to do that yet .... i tried to work out a LLW once ... years back, but lost interest. would have involved too much writing. didn't have a char on disk then, and assumed it had to be on paper ALL the time

and now ... for something completely different. a wolven TW ... a space one i think ... that should be interesting ... i wonder what their gear and weapons are like? ... *grabs the phasebook and wanders away

_________________
Creator of the Chi grenade. Used in game by Kevarin [GM] and self as Mai - Civilian Martial artist that got amped via experiment. Ghost weapons and shirts rule.

Nano Missiles - used once and GM banned further use. They weren't THAT bad. and did stop a demon scout ship from returning with valuable info.


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Unread postPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 11:23 pm
  

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Knight

Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 3:38 pm
Posts: 5190
shiiv-a wrote:
....

oh ...
well ...

*sigh*

it was worth a shot. shows everyone \how smart i really am. that being said ... i think its time to go think about a TW char now. never actually tried to do that yet .... i tried to work out a LLW once ... years back, but lost interest. would have involved too much writing. didn't have a char on disk then, and assumed it had to be on paper ALL the time

and now ... for something completely different. a wolven TW ... a space one i think ... that should be interesting ... i wonder what their gear and weapons are like? ... *grabs the phasebook and wanders away
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

_________________
Bind the body to the opened mind
Bind the body to the opened mind

I dream of towers in a world consumed
A void in the sentient sky
I dream of fissures across the moon
Leaves of the lotus rise


~Dream Again By Miracle of Sound


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