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Unread postPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 10:51 am
  

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Topic.

After reading the first few pages in the BoM and joining a new group, I realized people really do vary a lot in how they allow spell aquisition.

Just curious how you guys do it.

~Semi

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Unread postPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 11:38 am
  

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Palladin

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good question, as I sometimes wrestle with it for NPCs.

I think 3 or 4 spells per level on the average is decent for an NPC (who can learn/purchase spells at any time).... so a 6th level LLW can have up to 24 spells or so.

for RPing that, it should only happen in areas where mages frequent, so being stuck out in the Pecos may not be conducive to that sort of game/environment.

I use mainly Phase World, and Center has several magical gathering holes, so I sorta build-in the fact that a mage will "shop around" and find things out, trade services for spells...that sorta thing. I tend to focus on middle and low spells, as I get the feeling mages aren't going to reveal their aces, unless they're in a bind.

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Unread postPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 3:01 pm
  

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I don't have a hard and fast rule.

Its easier to aquire magic in magic rich environments. Its harder in settings like BtS2.

Remember, for Mages magic is their bread and butter. If they really need something give it to them or give them the means to aquire it for themselves. Just be sure to differentiate between "Need" and "Want".

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Unread postPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 7:04 pm
  

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I generally leave it up to how the character plays. They want to do nothing but study and experiment, then I'll have no issue with giving them an extra helping of spells within reason. It's going to be easier to score low level stuff of course, so the time required to learn something like a fifth level spell might enable the character learn a few first and second level invocations, etc.

On the other side of the coin, my games tend to be role play heavy on experience points. If you're not interacting with folks, you're going to spend longer leveling. The players I've had who have been successful playing magic users have tended to find a balance between the two.

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Unread postPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 2:56 am
  

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I go with what's in Through the Glass Darkly.


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Unread postPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 5:20 am
  

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The Beast wrote:
I go with what's in Through the Glass Darkly.


Which is?

~Semi

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Unread postPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 12:31 pm
  

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Demon Lord Extraordinaire

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Semisonic9 wrote:
The Beast wrote:
I go with what's in Through the Glass Darkly.


Which is?

~Semi


It's a Nightbane sourcebook.


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Unread postPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 1:36 pm
  

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The Beast wrote:
Semisonic9 wrote:
The Beast wrote:
I go with what's in Through the Glass Darkly.


Which is?

~Semi


It's a Nightbane sourcebook.


I think, in this case, the question of what it is referred to the material, and not the nature of the book.

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Unread postPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 4:40 pm
  

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I leave it primarly to the players. I will place opportunities in front of them, but if they do not _activly_ attempt to expand their spell base it's going to remain fairly stagnant. if they really try, it can improve quite rappidly.

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Unread postPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 4:51 pm
  

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Palladin

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Nekira Sudacne wrote:
I leave it primarly to the players. I will place opportunities in front of them, but if they do not _activly_ attempt to expand their spell base it's going to remain fairly stagnant. if they really try, it can improve quite rappidly.


what kind of numbers ? (just ballpark is fine)

say what # of spells can a 3rd or 4th level PC have in your games ?

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Unread postPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 11:46 am
  

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Semisonic9 wrote:
Topic.

After reading the first few pages in the BoM and joining a new group, I realized people really do vary a lot in how they allow spell aquisition.

Just curious how you guys do it.

~Semi
Enough for them to be on par with the rest of the group, not too much to where they always look to him to incapacitate the enemy and steal the show...........and not too little to where he's a non-factor.........

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Unread postPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 1:50 pm
  

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Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
gadrin wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
I leave it primarly to the players. I will place opportunities in front of them, but if they do not _activly_ attempt to expand their spell base it's going to remain fairly stagnant. if they really try, it can improve quite rappidly.


what kind of numbers ? (just ballpark is fine)

say what # of spells can a 3rd or 4th level PC have in your games ?


depends on how much downtime they spend. they can gain 10-20 spells in that time though of lower levels, 5 or 6 higher ones.and no, I don't have a spcific ratio I use, it's just that if they go for the more powerful spells lesser spells don't tend to be as avaible as if they focus on mastering the basics.

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Unread postPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 4:03 pm
  

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Nekira Sudacne wrote:

depends on how much downtime they spend. they can gain 10-20 spells in that time though of lower levels, 5 or 6 higher ones.and no, I don't have a spcific ratio I use, it's just that if they go for the more powerful spells lesser spells don't tend to be as avaible as if they focus on mastering the basics.



yeah, I suppose each PC is different.

I have a Super-spy Mage NPC who is 6th level. I've working to expand on him by saying he worked for Naruni, raked in some major cash on old projects and is now in a position to own a fairly big business (become a patron NPC, instead of just another NPC opponent).

He'll be revised to 8th level and I need to figure on how many spells he should have.

He had 25 spells at 6th level (most focusing on spying). I'm thinking by 8th level he'll have a minimum of 30, possibly high 30s. The super-spy mage isn't quite the spell caster the Ley Line Walker is, however. I think Dimensional Pocket could be available by 8th level (since HU offers it standard to their basic spellcaster category).

I'm also trying to decide if he should have a familiar, like a Lasae (anarchist, not an evil demon). I think that still fits the basic super-spy mold without making him too "mage-oriented", if you get my meaning. He comes across as a businessman.

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Unread postPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 6:02 am
  

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Yeah, this all came up because I started playing a LLR in a new group.

By the book, LLRs come stocked with a lot of Ley Line Magic, some of it quite powerfull, but only a handfull of other spells. All PCs start at level 3, though, so I thought I'd be given a good assortment of spells to fill in his weaknesses. I was offered quite a bit less than I was expecting, and it got me a little worried how hard the character would be curtailed in his magical development. It reminded me of the BoM intros and made me curious how other people GM this.

It's a good group, so I'm sure everything will work out. Initial magic isn't such a big deal as long as I'm allowed to develop it.

~Semi

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Unread postPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 11:03 am
  

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I tock a leaf out of the Palladium fantasy main book and flesh out the magical collages at lazlo/new lazlo and merc town. In major none CS area's i add in the occasional alchemist shop. So the casters can buy spells as they come into money.

Traveling caster NPC's carry on them 1d8 additional common spells and 1d4 uncommon spells (roll 1d6 to determin level of each added spell). 35% chance the npc will give the player a single spell in exchange for a favor in future or present. 65% He will trade a spell for an equal spell, 85% they will sell the spell at 400% market value if the player insists (200% if the both the player and npc are of same alighnment).

I also allow the caster to use the rules for nightbane: through the glass darkly (i think is its name) to modifiy existing spells or create new spells when their are long lulls in adventuring. Or the party is laying over in a village for winters heavy storms.

Also where i throw in the adventurer gatherings, Groups of NPCs spend the first 8 days tradeing and selling gear with each other. They spend the rest of the few months telling stories, drinking and swaping information of different area's untill the heavy storms let off enough for them to resume traveling.

Hahah one of my players had a huge problem learning to barter with the npc's. He wanted a plasma sword, but the techie who had it wanted a sniper rifle in exchange. He had extra vibro knives and just couldn't wrap his mind arround the concept of looking for someone that wanted vibro knives for a sniper rifle (a juicer in this case wanted to unload his old rifle in exchange for melee weapons, a nural mace and 4 vibro knives were is asking price).

All in all they had a lot of fun with it and looked forward to the gatherings in further adventures.

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Unread postPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 1:56 pm
  

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Monk

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Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
sawg138 wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
gadrin wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
I leave it primarly to the players. I will place opportunities in front of them, but if they do not _activly_ attempt to expand their spell base it's going to remain fairly stagnant. if they really try, it can improve quite rappidly.


what kind of numbers ? (just ballpark is fine)

say what # of spells can a 3rd or 4th level PC have in your games ?


depends on how much downtime they spend. they can gain 10-20 spells in that time though of lower levels, 5 or 6 higher ones.and no, I don't have a spcific ratio I use, it's just that if they go for the more powerful spells lesser spells don't tend to be as avaible as if they focus on mastering the basics.

Copycat. :D


Don't flatter yourself :P

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You can have something done good, fast and cheap. If you want it done good and fast, it's not going to be cheap. If you want it done fast and cheap it won't be good. If you want something done good and cheap it won't be done fast. ~ Dark Brandon


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Unread postPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 8:20 pm
  

D-Bee

Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:15 pm
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In palladium fantasy, BtSN, Nightbane, and other low magic games, the learning of new spells is a difficult prossess and requires questing and lots of cash.

In high magic worlds like Rifts or Phase World, I allow new spells to be learned as many as the character can afford. With an exception for spells of legand.


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Unread postPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 10:26 am
  

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Knight

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Comment: Evil GM
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my mage PC progress in spells as fast as they are willing to go with in reason ....
on average i would say they gain roughly 6 to ten spells peer level not including the automatic level up spells...

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Unread postPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 6:52 pm
  

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Knight

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sawg138 wrote:
Damian Magecraft wrote:
my mage PC progress in spells as fast as they are willing to go with in reason ....
on average i would say they gain roughly 6 to ten spells peer level not including the automatic level up spells...

So that's another agreement with me. Amazing. :D
dude whats my name? of course spell acquisition. is easy in my games (assuming the mage player is smart enough to pursue his chosen craft)....I did have one player who complained that he was only getting his auto spells and that was it..the stupid sod passed up 15 opportunities to obtain additional spells during game play in just 1 adventure.... :frust:

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Unread postPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 11:35 am
  

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Comment: Molon Labe
Semisonic9 wrote:
Topic.

After reading the first few pages in the BoM and joining a new group, I realized people really do vary a lot in how they allow spell aquisition.

Just curious how you guys do it.

~Semi


There is a very good article in one of the Rifters on this very subject. I can't recall the exact issue, but I think it was number 11. It made me realize that I've been to stingy with spells, and that I should be giving at least twice what I was. Now I give anywere from five to eight per level, in addition to those automatically give at level advancement. It also made me realize that I shouldn't be afraid of giving PCs high level spells to early, since the P.P.E. cost and availability are built-in game balancers. So the player maybe able to cast Sorcerous Fury early on, but he won't cast it to often until higher levels. Which by then (if I as GM do my job right) it won't be so unbalancing.


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Unread postPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 5:40 pm
  

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JTwig wrote:
There is a very good article in one of the Rifters on this very subject. I can't recall the exact issue, but I think it was number 11. It made me realize that I've been to stingy with spells, and that I should be giving at least twice what I was. Now I give anywere from five to eight per level, in addition to those automatically give at level advancement. It also made me realize that I shouldn't be afraid of giving PCs high level spells to early, since the P.P.E. cost and availability are built-in game balancers. So the player maybe able to cast Sorcerous Fury early on, but he won't cast it to often until higher levels. Which by then (if I as GM do my job right) it won't be so unbalancing.


that's pretty much what I thought: ~3 per level max. As for mages dealing with other PC mages or NPCs supplied by the GM, that's almost a given for some massive "wheelin' and dealin'" :)

if you can find which Rifter let us know.

The only other thing I can think of is looking at the various NPCs in the SOT books, etc, that have a complete list of spells and seeing how the authors envisioned it. The only trouble is: NPC can break the rules :x

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Unread postPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 2:15 pm
  

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Comment: Molon Labe
gadrin wrote:
JTwig wrote:
There is a very good article in one of the Rifters on this very subject. I can't recall the exact issue, but I think it was number 11. It made me realize that I've been to stingy with spells, and that I should be giving at least twice what I was. Now I give anywere from five to eight per level, in addition to those automatically give at level advancement. It also made me realize that I shouldn't be afraid of giving PCs high level spells to early, since the P.P.E. cost and availability are built-in game balancers. So the player maybe able to cast Sorcerous Fury early on, but he won't cast it to often until higher levels. Which by then (if I as GM do my job right) it won't be so unbalancing.


that's pretty much what I thought: ~3 per level max. As for mages dealing with other PC mages or NPCs supplied by the GM, that's almost a given for some massive "wheelin' and dealin'" :)

if you can find which Rifter let us know.

The only other thing I can think of is looking at the various NPCs in the SOT books, etc, that have a complete list of spells and seeing how the authors envisioned it. The only trouble is: NPC can break the rules :x


Took me a while but I finally found the article. It is in Rifter #11.


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Unread postPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 10:31 pm
  

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Hero

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It mostly depends upon the level of the spell in question in the games I've run.

Spells of levels 1 through 5 are realatively common (as far as such things ever are), thus it usually only requires a little bit of effort to find someone willing to teach the spell, and a small donation of cash or a minor to moderate task to aquire.

Spells of level 6 to 10 are a bit harder to come by, and those who do have them are not usually willing to teach just anyone. Just finding someone who can provide such spells is a moderate task, and getting them to part with such spells usually requires a lot of cash or a moderate to difficult task.

Spells from levels 11 to 15 are very difficult to find because the people who possess them are few and far between and rarely teach the spelss to anyone. Finding people who know such spells is usually a difficult task and getting them to teach the spells usually reqires a truely difficult task (most will not sell the spells or will do so for truely astronomical prices).

Lastly, my players just aren't going to find anyone willing to teach them a Spell of Legend. While there are people who know these spells, they are not going to teach anyone such powerful magics, period. The only way my players ever learn such spells is by undertaking truely hurculean tasks to find the scattered notes of ancient wizards who may have once known such spells.

All this of course assumes that the player in question is actively searching for new spells. If he isn't, then I tend to assume he's quite satified with the spells he currently possesses.


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Unread postPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 12:14 am
  

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Palladin

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JTwig wrote:

Took me a while but I finally found the article. It is in Rifter #11.



oh, yes! I haven't read that one in a long time.

You are a gentleman and a Rogue Scholar :ok:

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