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 Post subject: Can we "fix" boxing?
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:13 pm
  

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Would anyone or has anyone thought of fixing the boxing skill?

Removing the +1 attack and just giving a parry, strike and increased SDC?

It makes pretty good game sense. I get that boxing makes one better at hth and what not, but there seems to be an issue with the occasional melee vs ranged attacks blah blah blah.

So removing that attack "fixes" the odd attack out, keeps the paper work easier to manage and just makes better sense.

Anyone? Anyone? :P


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Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:16 pm
  

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faster reflexes overall.

Although I do think it's kind of lame that 75% of everyone on rifts earth is an amateur boxer.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:43 pm
  

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There's the actual Boxing hand to Hand that is in one of the Rifters. I'm at work so I don't have the book with me right now to be able to say which one it is though.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:46 pm
  

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Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:47 pm
  

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-but I completly agree :ok:

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 Post subject: Re: Can we "fix" boxing?
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:55 pm
  

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ghost2020 wrote:
So removing that attack "fixes" the odd attack out, keeps the paper work easier to manage and just makes better sense.

:P


Well for the odd attack out, the way our GM does it is, say you have a PC with 7 attacks, so your roll initiative, our gm breaks combat up into 5 rounds and if combat isn't done then we all roll initiative again. anyways 7 attacks, 5 rounds, i would get 2 attacks round (or turn) one, two on round two, then 1 for round 3 - 5. that's how he does it and it works, that way weaker people aren't waiting around for more combat heavy pc's.
eg

round 1 round 2 round 3 round 4 round5
pc1 shoots twice shoots twice shoots once shoots once shoots once
pc2 punches twice shoots once shoots once shoots once shoots once
pc3 shoots once shoots once shoots once shoots once shoots once
obviously npcs are in there as well and we take turns so pc1 gets his two shots, then pc2 goes then 3, etc, that way pc3 doesn't sit and wait will one and two go through their 7 attacks each, you notice in round two pc2 only shoots once ? one action to pull the gun and one to shoot, that keeps things interesting and fun for our group and we've been using that setup ever since we started playing.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:48 pm
  

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I agree, the HTH choice should be the thing that sets up the attacks per melee.

Other skills sharpshooting for example, should only give a bonus to strike when aiming (above and beyond traditional aiming), and maybe a small bonus bonus for firearms in general (just for time spent learning the skill and handling weapons, etc.).


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:57 pm
  

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Dungeon Crawler

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hi i have a question :)

if a character selects both the boxing skill and the kickboxing skill, do the bonus attacks per melee stack, so tat the character gets +2 attacks per melee?

BE


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:28 pm
  

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Yes. And also add 1 extra APM for being so clever.

...And a forcefield. With lasers.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:52 pm
  

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I started using the boxing hand to hand from the Rifter and it seems to work pretty well in that the folks who take it generally show an actual interest in boxing a bit. Did the same thing with wrestling, which seems to be more popular given the grappling and such.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:58 pm
  

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I just think I should get 1 automatic riposte instead of an additional APM. But my GM will never give that to me.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:24 am
  

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One fix is to make that extra attack/action only count in H2H combat. This means that extra attack does not apply to psychic, magic or ranged combat.

Yeah the PC’s may moan and cry, but if you’re a good GM they’ll shut up.

Also I’ve made some physical skills cost more then one skill slot. Boxing Wrestling and Kickboxing all cost two skills, and Gymnastics and Acrobatics cost three skills. With limited skill selection this makes players think twice about picking Boxing and Gymnastics for every PC they make.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:55 am
  

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Basic Boxing: PS PP PE Spd+1 per 3 levels
SDC+5 per level
Stun at 20-1 per level
Punch Damage+1 per level
Expert Boxing:
1 A+2
2 SP+2
3 Stun 18+
4 R+2
5 A+1 Combo: 2 hits
6 SP+1
7 R+1
8 Punch Upgrade
9 A+1 SP+1 R+1
10 KO 16+ Combo: 4 hits
11 Dmg+4
12 R+3
13 A+1 SP+1 R+1
14 Combo: 6 hits
15 KO 15+

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:58 am
  

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KillWatch wrote:
Basic Boxing: PS PP PE Spd+1 per 3 levels
SDC+5 per level
Stun at 20-1 per level
Punch Damage+1 per level
Expert Boxing:
1 A+2
2 SP+2
3 Stun 18+
4 R+2
5 A+1 Combo: 2 hits
6 SP+1
7 R+1
8 Punch Upgrade
9 A+1 SP+1 R+1
10 KO 16+ Combo: 4 hits
11 Dmg+4
12 R+3
13 A+1 SP+1 R+1
14 Combo: 6 hits
15 KO 15+


What do "R" and "SP" mean? I understand that "A" means "attack," but can't figure out what the other two mean.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:37 am
  

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jedi078 wrote:
One fix is to make that extra attack/action only count in H2H combat. This means that extra attack does not apply to psychic, magic or ranged combat.

Yeah the PC’s may moan and cry, but if you’re a good GM they’ll shut up.


My personal favourite is when they learn that no hand to hand bonuses apply to psychic, magic and ranged combat. These are all based on action rather than attacks, or should be.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:46 pm
  

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Lucky wrote:
faster reflexes overall.

Although I do think it's kind of lame that 75% of everyone on rifts earth is an amateur boxer.


Only if adventurers comprise the entirety of Rifts Earth.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:27 pm
  

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Comment: The next group of player characters to surrender in one of my games are going to play Russian roulette.
Rayven wrote:
What do "R" and "SP" mean? I understand that "A" means "attack," but can't figure out what the other two mean.


I'll take a guess that "SP" is Strike and Parry, and "R" is Roll.

Deductive reasoning is such a great tool

I do like the "expert boxing" stuff Killwatch.

MrGiggles wrote:
My personal favourite is when they learn that no hand to hand bonuses apply to psychic, magic and ranged combat. These are all based on action rather than attacks, or should be.


Well it makes sense.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:06 pm
  

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Yes, one of the things I had hoped would've been streamlined with the newer edition.
A unified actions per round (melee, ranged, etc) and some decent set of bonuses and penalties for skills and abilities to apply to those actions per round.

Still rather cludgy after all these years.


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:06 am
  

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Blue Eyes wrote:
hi i have a question :)

if a character selects both the boxing skill and the kickboxing skill, do the bonus attacks per melee stack, so tat the character gets +2 attacks per melee?

BE


Edit: I'm dumb.


Last edited by DrBeau on Sun Apr 15, 2007 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 1:36 pm
  

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DrBeau wrote:
Blue Eyes wrote:
hi i have a question :)

if a character selects both the boxing skill and the kickboxing skill, do the bonus attacks per melee stack, so tat the character gets +2 attacks per melee?

BE


I believe "kickboxing" has replaced "boxing"...not been added as a new skill.


Why would one replace the other? While they are both fighting styles that contain the name boxing in them they are different types of fighting styles.


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 1:49 pm
  

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jedi078 wrote:
One fix is to make that extra attack/action only count in H2H combat. This means that extra attack does not apply to psychic, magic or ranged combat.


That's how I do it.

I'm glad that most of my players do not automatically pick Boxing any more, unless it makes sense for their character.

In fact, my players (not me) have all decided that if you pick Hand to Hand Martial Arts or an advanced Martial Arts skill, that you should not (or rather cannot) pick Boxing.

I tend to agree, though (like them) do so on a case by case basis.

~ Josh

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:26 am
  

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Josh Sinsapaugh wrote:
.

In fact, my players (not me) have all decided that if you pick Hand to Hand Martial Arts or an advanced Martial Arts skill, that you should not (or rather cannot) pick Boxing.

I tend to agree, though (like them) do so on a case by case basis.

~ Josh


I do pretty much the opposite. Since "boxing" is far and away the best physical skill in the book, and for some reason it helps you shoot guns faster, and that I really eschew complications (having PC's keep track of their H2H attacks vs their Ranged attacks etc, or whether H2H martial arts stacks with boxing....)..

I'll just give it to everyone as a 'hero' bonus. Saves trouble, saves time.

The skill is over-powerful... check that... actually no. I think it's just about the only physical skill worth taking, so I would *prefer* that ALL the skills be that powerful and effective, not just the one. So I suggest an alternat thought... not "how do we nerf boxing?' instead..

How do we "enhance" the other skills so that skill choice becomes a more fundamental part of character creation?


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:04 am
  

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I definatly agree that any physical skil bonus should be for melee combat only not ranged. Since I only do Play By Post games now it is difficult to share any ideas that I use from books that most of my players have. If I still did table top gaming [where I can show my players the books I am using] I would have all characters use 2 sets of attacks, 1 for HtH and 1 for ranged. They would be allowed to get any of the martial art or HtH skills as normal and they would also get the option to get the ranged combat skill found in rifter # 11. I think it is the most logical option to have 2 types of attacks. If you use he basic one set of attacks then you are just as fast with ranged as HtH. But some players my want to excel at ranged and not HtH. Just because you are able to fire off 7 rounds acuratly doesn't mean you could punch a man 7 times in the same amount of time.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 7:41 pm
  

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MASTERMIND wrote:
Why would one replace the other? While they are both fighting styles that contain the name boxing in them they are different types of fighting styles.


Honestly, I don't know what was going through my head when I posted that. I made it go away (although it will live on forever in your quote).


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:56 pm
  

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Lucky wrote:
faster reflexes overall.

Although I do think it's kind of lame that 75% of everyone on rifts earth is an amateur boxer.



Really?
Strange.
Only 50% of my gaming group has that skill {current # of players os 14}.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we "fix" boxing?
Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:18 pm
  

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ghost2020 wrote:
Would anyone or has anyone thought of fixing the boxing skill?


People have thought this, but the skill is not broken.

Quote:
Removing the +1 attack and just giving a parry, strike and increased SDC?

It makes pretty good game sense. I get that boxing makes one better at hth and what not, but there seems to be an issue with the occasional melee vs ranged attacks blah blah blah.

So removing that attack "fixes" the odd attack out, keeps the paper work easier to manage and just makes better sense.

Anyone? Anyone? :P


In Palladium's system, ALL attacks are based on a character's hand to hand combat capabilities.
This is not completely realistic, but it's not a problem specifically with the Boxing skill.
If you try to "fix" just the Boxing skill, then you'll be creating just as many discrepencies as you cure.

Problem:
"But why should boxing help me shoot/cast faster? That doesn't make any sense?"

Solution:
"Ignore the attack from boxing (or have it only apply to HTH combat)"

New Problem:
"So.... training in punching and kicking fast is okay from HTH combat skills, but not from boxing..." That doesn't make any sense either!"


The Boxing skill makes sense for the overall combat system.
If you want to fix Boxing, you actually need to fix the entire combat system.

Good luck with that.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:14 pm
  

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Palladium has fixed boxing by placing it in the occ related skill selections with the rest of the physical skills. This seriously curbs my instinct to pick boxing because it takes up one of thoes valuable selections. So now if you want boxing you pay for it.

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