Board index » Across the Megaverse® » G.M.s Forum

 


Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.
Author Message
 Post subject: Mage Creation Question
Unread postPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:31 pm
  

User avatar
Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 1:09 am
Posts: 319
Talking about character creation in the Rifts sub-forum, and re-calculating a character of mine got me to thinking.... In FOM and the BOM they talk about specializations and individual flairs of mages. Makes perfect sense. But.... the Shifter seems to be unecessarily dualistic in some ways (not so in others).

For instance, if you wanted to be a dimension/world/ley line travelor and scholar of the nature of rifts, dimensions, and magic itself, you wouldn't have much use for summoning spells, and only marginal use for controling spells.

Yet the Shifter seems to be both Summoner, and Dimension hopper as a primary focus, depending on which passage you read.

So, let's say I wanted to make a Shifter that was the latter - the travelor/dimension and magic scholar.

Looking at the stats, I take the base skills (which include many I don't need), and then for advancement it says, starting at level 2, pick any 1 from the list they put together, plus 1 additional protection or summoning spell from that list, plus 1 more of any kind up to the level of the mage (from the common invocations).

That middle part - there's not a whole lot of protection spells there. That means a lot of summoning spells. But what if that's not your "thing"?

What's the GM consensus call on this? Let the player exchange the spells, or force him to take what's offered or skip it (a take it or leave it option)?

The latter seems to remove a bit of uniqueness in some respects.


          Top  
 
 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:00 pm
  

D-Bee

Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 12:14 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Las Vegas
You could just make a Ley Line Rifter from the Ultimate Edition. Since his specilization is dimensional travel it would pretty much solve your dilemma...more or less

_________________
Myndtrip
"What would it take to make me normal? Perhaps a proper outlook and a need to wear tweed formal wear." ~Josh Martinez
"When someone asks if you are a god, you say YES!" ~Ghostbusters


          Top  
 
 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:17 pm
  

User avatar
Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 1:09 am
Posts: 319
Well, the book says that the Shifter is the master of Rifts and Dimensional Traveling. And they have the Dim Teleport home, as well as Dimension Sense, and other related things that are more specialized than the "generalist" ley line walker (and it's sub-classes). And there are certain dimenional spells that are half cost for Shifters and Temporals.

The OCC, or at least it's description, seems a bit schizo. On the one hand, I can see the mastery of portals for use in summoning, but it's much more than a mere Summoner. It's also a master travelor class, mastering space, dimension, and magic, particulary as it pertains to the others.

But even the the LLW, I guarentee you that you could come up with a character concept that would render some (possibly even many) of the starting spells if gives you (not the ones it lets you pick) useless.

It's not like a boot camp or university course. Magic is very personal. The apprentice will learn whatever the master is willing to give him, and by that token, it could be said the apprentace will take whatever the master decides he should take, but at the same time, the student can ask for certain things or suggest that others are not something they are interested in.

Plus, not every master will have the same spell list, some will specialize in some things and ignore others.


          Top  
 
 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:19 pm
  

User avatar
Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 1:09 am
Posts: 319
Come to think of it, one of the starting spells it says all Shifters have is Compulsion.

That's also in the list of spells to choose from. Why.....?

The list is limited and not every invocation "out there", so why the double up? Who would take it twice?


          Top  
 
 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:08 am
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2002 2:01 am
Posts: 8916
Location: Port Eclipse
well, little things like spells being missing or repeated is a feature of Palladium Books and their editing style :P

take a look at the PPE for Dimensional Portal for the LLRifter OCC -- shouldn't that read 500 PPE ? :P well, they got most of the others right.

as for specialties you're on your own. I'm a Phase World buff, and a few RCCs offer the Ley Line Walker as an option (Draconid & Silhouette) but retro-fitting RUE (Rifts Ultimate Edition) can I also add in the Ley Line Rifter instead, now that it's available ? (depends on your Group).

Rifter #15 offers a couple of Shifter variants, so you may want to check those out. There's also a whole section on more "shifter spells" afterwards. Some good, some weird, overall: a nice addition. That story with the Lanotaur Hunter is cool !

If you want a Shifter that specializes in Travelling vs Summoning then you should be able to pull it off, with a few changes. I don't see any reason why you can't drop/change a few spells in favor of others...but that's just me. Cookie cutter PCs get pretty boring after a while.

Compulsion follows the original theme of the Shifter being able to control other beings. If you don't want it, drop it.

If you go Megaversal, several magic OCCs get "standard spells" meaning common invocations. Sometimes the choices seem arbitrary, so I tend to expand those suggestions with a few of my own. I don't see, for instance why a Mirrormage OCC (Nightbane) can't conjure Armor of Ithan as magical protection, or fire an Energy Bolt. They are mages after all and allowing OCC X to do so, but not OCC Y seems arbitrary in my book (BUT THAT'S ME).

My intention is not to subvert Palladium authors, but rather to comfort a PC mage by saying: "Yes you can protect yourself" (so that they'll play a Mirrormage or whatever, and not take the "standard howitzer" OCC).

If the player doesn't want it (plays EXACTLY by the book) then that's fine too.

I've seen web OCCs that offer specialties. I can't vouch for how they'll strike you.

check out the MAGIC section of this site for instance...<cough>Riftweaver OCC</cough>
http://www.users.qwest.net/~bhegr/main.htm

you might like some of the OCCs and find them as adaptable for your own machinations! 8-)

_________________
"What the hell's an Aluminum Falcon ?" Papa Palpatine -- Robot Chicken, Star Wars Edition
Multiple Image
Image


          Top  
 
 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:02 am
  

User avatar
Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 1:09 am
Posts: 319
Some good stuff in there, thanks.

The extra Shifter spells will be most useful I think. I like the idea of the specialization in each direction as well, but for my charactrer, I don't think I'm going to do that.

What I might do is use some of the traveling related spells from the Shifter list in place of the Summoning spells that I would otherwise be forced to choose through level advancement.

My character technically has an Aberrant alignment. He was created some time ago and I've changed a bit since then, and in the process, he's changed a bit as well. And since he's and Alien from HU, that then got sent to Robotech for a time (along with the rest of the HU party), then back to HU, then to Rifts, and has gone to Wormwood and Phaseworld, among other places, I think the travelling aspects just make sense. And I originally made a deal with the GM (at the time) to pick up the Shifter OCC (from the old main book), just because I wanted the ability to get home quickly and easily, if I ever got into trouble.

But since we went through several GMs, and clutter and other crap caused the character to become spread and duplicated across countless printouts and text files, and because power creep got a little out of hand, I've decided to re-build the chracter, and do so using R:UE.

Certain aspects of the summoning and controlling are appealing. I just don't want that as the primary focus. Despite the alignment, I don't see him as true evil. Just "not good" - a guy with a high degree of honor, and the ability to be cold and compasionless when needed (and occasionally a dark and twisted sense of humor lol). So I don't see him enslaving creatures all the time, or having lots of "minions". But.... I do think his ultimate goal to one day be a god, or at least have that sort of power, would mean that he would be interested in at least knowing how to summon and control.

So I guess I'm looking for a basic Shifter with a primary focus on travelling, but not to exclusion. Those Rifter 15 spells should help solve this.

Sorry for rambling. lol


          Top  
 
 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:29 pm
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2002 2:01 am
Posts: 8916
Location: Port Eclipse
Bloodspray another thing you might want to consider (I haven't gotten a straight answer from anyone on these boards yet except maybe Nekira)...

Look at the spell: Charismatic Aura

it gives +8 bonus to PB; now say you have a PB of 14, then +8 to PB of 22 total.

PB of 22 gives +60% to Charm/Impress, or +12 on a D20.

Does that mean opponents are now -12 to save vs the Friendship/Trust feature of the spell (or of the spell in general, your pick) ???

I'm not sure. I've seen something in the Rifter about Charm/Trust mentioning it works to talk someone into giving you a ride or borrowing their car or something. Why not a spell ? :eek:

_________________
"What the hell's an Aluminum Falcon ?" Papa Palpatine -- Robot Chicken, Star Wars Edition
Multiple Image
Image


          Top  
 
 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:17 pm
  

User avatar
Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 1:09 am
Posts: 319
Very interesting thought. But I have to wonder what happens when the spell wears off and whoever you snookered now sees you're not as attractive as they thought (talk about morning after syndrome, lol)

But it's something I'll keep in mind. You're right, manipulation doesn't have to involve outright control or enslavement.


          Top  
 
 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:08 am
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2002 2:01 am
Posts: 8916
Location: Port Eclipse
exactly my thoughts in the past too...

I've come to realize that it simply presents the spell caster in the best light for that particular encounter (you know how you like one person one time, but the next time you see them you have 2nd thoughts ?) something along that line.

I think the % mods apply to the saving throws, because why go to all the trouble to make/give bonuses to something "just for common everyday things" ? Then it becomes: "we went to all this trouble to provided bonuses but they don't really count for anything."

however I think the -12 to save is a bit of a stretch, otherwise even a lowly mage will always get the opponent. maybe do the conversion, but the bonus only goes as high as the mage's level, so the 4th level mage, who bumps his PB up to 22, only gets -4 on the saves. slightly arbitrary, but keeps the power creep down to normal levels. Or maybe 1.5 :P

I can't wait to give a scroll to a Pleasurer (or Changeling) who already have a 20+ PB ! :lol:

_________________
"What the hell's an Aluminum Falcon ?" Papa Palpatine -- Robot Chicken, Star Wars Edition
Multiple Image
Image


          Top  
 
 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:20 pm
  

User avatar
Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 1:09 am
Posts: 319
I know what you mean about the 2nd thoughts. But that's usually due to environment, such as a night club or something. But can be due to them wearing makeup too I guess.

Either way, for a male charactrer trying to persuade someone do to something - especially another male character, or supernatural entity of any kind, I would think MA would be what mattered, not PB. Or at the least, the PB boost would give a minimal increment to the MA attempts, similar to what you were thinking. Just not sure how to work that out.


          Top  
 
 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:46 pm
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2002 2:01 am
Posts: 8916
Location: Port Eclipse
yeah, I think "Charisma" is a combo of the two (MA and PB) as looks are great, but ever talk to the gorgeous girl who has a speaking voice like a chipmunk ? :lol:

it's hard to keep a straight face, especially if she can't talk about anything but movie stars or clothes.

I've met people who aren't impressive physically but have sharp minds and are astute. Combine that with PB and you have a bit better basis for a magical combo IMHO.

Anyway, to over-do it, take a Night Priest OCC from Nightbane and couple it with Charismatic Aura spell.

Felix Faust - Human Practicioner of Magic Priest of Night

Name: Felix Faust.
Alignment: Diabolic.
Attributes: I.Q. 12, M.E. 20, M.A. 23, P.S. 20, P.P. 17, P.E. 22, P.B. 19, Spd. 11.
Hit Points: 62, S.D.C.: 75.
Horror Factor: None.
Height: 6 feet 1 inches (1.9 m), Weight: 190 lbs (86.4 kg). Age: 34 years.
P.P.E.: 137, I.S.P.: 42.
Experience Level: 5th level Human Practicioner of Magic Priest of Night.
Experience Points: 19,006.
Skills:
Ancient Weapon: W.P. Knife.
Communications: Radio: Basic (65%).
Domestic: Dance (65%), Play Musical Instrument: Flute (55%).
Espionage: Intelligence (48%), Interrogation Techniques (50%).
Hand to Hand: Hand to Hand: Expert.
Languages: Language: Trade Four (98%), Language: Trade Three (70%).
Modern Weapon: W.P. Automatic Pistol, W.P. Energy Pistol.
Physical: Boxing.
Pilot: Hovercycle (82%).
Rogue: Prowl (45%), Streetwise (36%).
Technical: Computer Operation (65%), Gemology (50%), Lore: Nightlands (70%), Lore: Religion (55%), Mythology (55%), Principles of Magic (68%), Research (65%).
Special Abilities: Spend 2 P.P.E. per minute to change P.S. into Supernatural P.S.
Psionics: (Minor)
Physical: Impervious to Fire (4).
Sensitive: Telepathy (4).
Spells:
Invocations: Armor of Ithan (10), Astral Projection (10), Carpet of Adhesion (10), Charismatic Aura (10), Circle of Flame (10), Cloak of Darkness (6), Fire Bolt (7), Horror (10), Invisibility: Simple (6), Magic Net (7), Mental Blast (15), Paralysis: Lesser (5), See the Invisible (4), Sense Magic (4).
Sorcery: Call Nightlands Denizen (15), Call Nightlord (25), Control Nightlands Denizen (85), Nightlands Passage (100), Nightlands Portal (50), Summon Nightlands Denizen (75).
Combat Training: Hand to Hand: Expert.
Combat Bonuses: +3 to Strike, +6 to Parry, +6 to Dodge, +3 to Roll with Punch, +4 to Pull Punch, Number of Attacks: 6, Non-Combat Actions: 6, +5 to Damage, +4 to Save vs Magic, +3 to Save vs Psychic Attack/Insanity, +75% to Trust/Intimidate, +14% to Save vs Coma/Death, +4 to Save vs Poison, +45% to Charm/Impress.
Equipment: Hovercycle, 13 "normal cultists", Black Robes, Standard travelling clothes, Stone Medallion.
Weapons: GR-45HP Jackhammer Heavy Pistol, MP-10 Caseless Pistol, NE-H10 Plasma Derringer, Vibro-Knife, Neural Mace, Silver Sacrificial Knife.
Money: 17,000 in Dollars, 800,000 in Property.

_________________
"What the hell's an Aluminum Falcon ?" Papa Palpatine -- Robot Chicken, Star Wars Edition
Multiple Image
Image


          Top  
 
 
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group