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Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:25 am
  

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Was wondering how other GM do a save against Telekinesis when TK is used to take weapons away from people. Do you guys use the standard save? Save based on persons strength holding the weapon? etc...

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Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:50 am
  

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Dungeon Crawler

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Well, that would be in 2 parts.

Imagine you were holding something that had a string on it, and you didn't know about the string (say you were in the dark), and someone yanked on it.

1st is your reflexes, both mental and physical - do you realize it's being yanked on in time to fight it?

2nd is your strength, are you strong enough to resist the pull?

So I guess it depends on how fast you allow TK to work, but moreso, how strong it is. And there are ways to defeat that too, a little smack to the forehead or something similar, to distract, a second before pulling the weapon.

I would definitely not make it a save. Maybe roll PP vs PP for the first part? (since over a certain point, PP gives bonuses to initiative and is therefore partly how fast you *think*) Or maybe take a straight roll - add defenders initiative bonus, and attackers PCC level (or OCC level if it's magic). This would be saying, sheer reactiveness (init bonus) vs skill in the use of TK (level). If failed, the gun is gone. If successful, then it comes down to strength - but before the defender can do anything else.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:43 pm
  

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I'd not allow any save for several reasons depending on circumstance. If the person holding the gun is "ready" i.e. is in combat USING or is about to use the weapon, they've got a good grip on it. You'd probably end up yanking the person off thier feet with them holding onto the gun...still effective for a distraction however. If the person is not "ready" i.e. is patrolling with the gun in thier hand, but it's not in use, then no save, the gun goes byebye.

Second reason I don't allow saves under normal circumstances: most of my players don't yank the entire gun, they just drop the clip or switch the safty on. No saves vs. these kinds of attacks, and with energy weapons, there is no such thing as "one in the chamber"

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Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:00 pm
  

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walross1978 wrote:
Was wondering how other GM do a save against Telekinesis when TK is used to take weapons away from people. Do you guys use the standard save? Save based on persons strength holding the weapon? etc...


Oooh, there's one of the sad strange weaknesses of the Palladium system.

There is no good way for this. So whatever you do, it'll be better.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:04 pm
  

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Dungeon Crawler

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DamonS wrote:
walross1978 wrote:
Was wondering how other GM do a save against Telekinesis when TK is used to take weapons away from people. Do you guys use the standard save? Save based on persons strength holding the weapon? etc...


Oooh, there's one of the sad strange weaknesses of the Palladium system.

There is no good way for this. So whatever you do, it'll be better.


What do you mean? Weak how? Bad in what way?


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Unread postPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:38 am
  

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Thanks for the input, will take the things you guys mention into consideration. Wanted to hear other GM's interpretations Thanks.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:13 am
  

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walross1978 wrote:
Was wondering how other GM do a save against Telekinesis when TK is used to take weapons away from people. Do you guys use the standard save? Save based on persons strength holding the weapon? etc...


Hey Walross, welcome to the boards.

There was a bit of a discussion on this here:

viewtopic.php?t=62733&highlight=telekinesis

It started regarding Super TK, but the principles are the same. Hope this helps.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:47 am
  

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walross1978 wrote:
Was wondering how other GM do a save against Telekinesis when TK is used to take weapons away from people. Do you guys use the standard save? Save based on persons strength holding the weapon? etc...


technically there is no save against TK, however you can dodge "physical psionic attacks".

if you have Psyscape on p34, under Saving Throw the paragraph that starts with "A Failed Roll to Save vs Psionics" gives you more details. I've seen this in another book, but can't recall where offhand.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:47 pm
  

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Bloodspray wrote:
DamonS wrote:
walross1978 wrote:
Was wondering how other GM do a save against Telekinesis when TK is used to take weapons away from people. Do you guys use the standard save? Save based on persons strength holding the weapon? etc...


Oooh, there's one of the sad strange weaknesses of the Palladium system.

There is no good way for this. So whatever you do, it'll be better.


What do you mean? Weak how? Bad in what way?


Palladium has a major problem with opposed rolls. Concealment Vs Detect concealment, using a psionic power against someone else's power, etc...

This is a good example

So Telekinesis is a psionic ability. Mr TK tries to pull the gun out of guy's hand.

Tk doesn't have a 'strength' attached to it, only a weight limit, so if you do strength vs strength, you first have to back-calculate what the PS is from the TK (back-calculating sux). And even if you do that, Opposed rolls in Palladium mean.... what? Do you roll d20 and add PS, do you roll d20 and add strength *bonus*? How about normal strength 10 vs supernatural strength 10? How do you do the roll-off?

*meanwhile*, where does the Mind Melter's Mental Endurance play into it? One would think it should, but it doesn't. And does TK always hit the target? All the things that one would think should matter.... simply don't.



Another GREAT example is this situation.

Burster #1 "I burst into flames!" (bursts into flames)

Burster #2, "Oh no you don't!" (and then uses 'extinguish flame' on burster #1).

How do you resolve that? It's reasonable to think that a 15th level burster would be harder to extinguish than a 1st level burster.... but nothing in the game suggests how this would work. High ME vs Low ME Burster that also would matter. But in the game mechanic, it doesn't.
The end result requires a million house rules because the only thing in the game which is set up for opposition is "Strike... Parry".

If you try to stop someone from doing anything other than hitting you, then there is simply no good mechanic in Palladium to do it.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:18 am
  

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Champion

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I would rule that a burster couldn't extinguish another's "Flame on". THe extinguish fire power, to my way of thinking, affects conventional fires not ones being fueled magically or psionically. I'd need to read over the burster description tonight to make a propoer judgement.

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