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Unread postPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 9:38 pm
  

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Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:42 pm
Posts: 206
thanks for the help guys


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Unread postPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 1:14 pm
  

Hero

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:29 pm
Posts: 1064
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Thinyser wrote:
goodhometownboy wrote:
ok so let me get this straight so i know.... the spd attributte in battle is the amount of feet you can move in a action.. example: a character with a spd of say 30 means he can move 30 feet per action and he can only move and attack if the target is within 15 or less feet? ok and if i read the books right there in no charge attack right?

NO!!! The Spd attribute is how many feet you can move in a second!!!!!! ]

Not in an action. Actions differ in length of time from char to char, and so a speed of such and such a number whould never remain constant.

Didn't mean to jump down your throat on this but i needed to nip this thought in the bud in no uncertain terms.

Spd = feet per second. Period.


i've actually run into a problem with the Feet Per Second thing as it does not seem to work during melee combat because melee combat is turn based not time based.

currently, combatants are to use up their melee actions turn for turn - A B A B A B - until they run out of actions per melee. then any character who still have actions left can keep taking melee actions while the others cannot until they also run out of action per melee - A B A B A B B for example.

this implies that both characters are using the exact same amount of time to attack eachother for each combat action in the melee, only one runs out of gas before the other so to speak.

thus Feet Per Second does not work properly by my count during a combat melee.

a character with a speed of 10 and 3 actions can actually run farther and faster in a single combat turn than a character with a speed of 14 and 5 actions can in a single turn.

10 x 20 = 200/4 = 50/3 = 16.667 (17 rounded) per turn

14 x 20 = 280/4 = 70/5 = 14 per turn

and that is exactly how it is described by the book.

_________________
diagonally parked in a parallel universe

One book to rule them all. One book to find them. One book to bring them all and in the Megaverse bind them.

As you sit down with your players and start to unfold your story, remember one thing: plot never survives contact with players.


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Unread postPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 11:05 pm
  

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Knight

Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2004 7:58 pm
Posts: 4119
Location: Sioux Falls SD
Comment: "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."
~George Carlin
EPIC wrote:
Thinyser wrote:
goodhometownboy wrote:
ok so let me get this straight so i know.... the spd attributte in battle is the amount of feet you can move in a action.. example: a character with a spd of say 30 means he can move 30 feet per action and he can only move and attack if the target is within 15 or less feet? ok and if i read the books right there in no charge attack right?

NO!!! The Spd attribute is how many feet you can move in a second!!!!!! ]

Not in an action. Actions differ in length of time from char to char, and so a speed of such and such a number whould never remain constant.

Didn't mean to jump down your throat on this but i needed to nip this thought in the bud in no uncertain terms.

Spd = feet per second. Period.


i've actually run into a problem with the Feet Per Second thing as it does not seem to work during melee combat because melee combat is turn based not time based.

currently, combatants are to use up their melee actions turn for turn - A B A B A B - until they run out of actions per melee. then any character who still have actions left can keep taking melee actions while the others cannot until they also run out of action per melee - A B A B A B B for example.

this implies that both characters are using the exact same amount of time to attack eachother for each combat action in the melee, only one runs out of gas before the other so to speak.

thus Feet Per Second does not work properly by my count during a combat melee.

a character with a speed of 10 and 3 actions can actually run farther and faster in a single combat turn than a character with a speed of 14 and 5 actions can in a single turn.

10 x 20 = 200/4 = 50/3 = 16.667 (17 rounded) Yards per turn

14 x 20 = 280/4 = 70/5 = 14 Yards per turn

and that is exactly how it is described by the book.


First what book is this in?

If this is infact how its detailed (and i've never seen it done so) then IMO the book's way of doing it is totally incorrect. The character with the lower speed and fewer actions can run farther but never faster... his actions take 5 seconds rathar than the 3 seconds per action that the character with 5 actions gets so he has longer per action to run and thus could run father in those 5 seconds than the other character can in his 3 seconds...

The whole ABABABBB way of running it is just stupid. Its a convention employed to make combat take less "real world" time. Discard this convention and use some common sense and math to determine the correct order to which the actions would happen and you will eleminate this problem.

Imagine a foot race between these two characters
A= spd 10 and 3 atm
B= spd 14 and 5 apm

Both start at same time
after one action A is 17 yards from the start and B is only 14
after 2 actions A is 34 yards from the start and B is 28
after 3 actions A is 51 yards from the start and B is 42
At this point A STOPS MOVING COPLETELY 51 yards is his total distace traveled and for actions 4 and 5 B runs another 28 yards for a total of 70 yards.

Does this make sense? NOT at all IMO.

In this case drop the actions and simply take the spd as feet per second and multiply by the seconds (15) and you get 150 feet for A (thats 50 yards) and 210 for B (thats 70 yards) and at any point durring the race you can calculate how far ahead B is simply by determining how many seconds into the race you are. It gets more complicated when you actually try to figure it out using actions but not so much so that I've ever had a problem with it.

_________________
"We live in a world where people use severed plant genitals to express affection.
Rifts is really not much weirder than that." ~~Killer Cyborg

"If we let technical problems scare us away from doing anything, humanity would still be in the trees flinging poo at each other."~~Killer Cyborg

"Everything that breeds is a threat."~~Killer Cyborg


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:55 am
  

Hero

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:29 pm
Posts: 1064
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
it's actually fairly simple math as the book describes speed as SPD x 20 per minute ... a speed of 10 equals 200 ft per minute

one melee takes exactly 15 seconds and 60/15 equals 4 ... so you take 200 and divide that by 4 to get 50 ft per melee

so now this character might have say 5 actions per melee so you divide down again ... 50 divided by 5 equals 10 ft per action.

and that's how you figure out how far a character can move in a single action.

that is also why it is way easier to leave combat exactly how it curently works - turn based rather than time based - and just say that a character can move a distance equal to their speed attribute in feet per action.

_________________
diagonally parked in a parallel universe

One book to rule them all. One book to find them. One book to bring them all and in the Megaverse bind them.

As you sit down with your players and start to unfold your story, remember one thing: plot never survives contact with players.


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:13 am
  

Adventurer

Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:32 am
Posts: 683
Umm... the easiest way would be

Spd 30 = 30 feet per second
Attacks per Melee = 5 divided by 15(melee time) = 3 seconds
3 seconds = 90 feet

So each attack you can move 90 feet, or 30 yards.

Seems pretty easy to me.


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:17 pm
  

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Knight

Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2004 7:58 pm
Posts: 4119
Location: Sioux Falls SD
Comment: "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."
~George Carlin
EPIC wrote:
it's actually fairly simple math as the book describes speed as SPD x 20 per minute ... a speed of 10 equals 200 ft per minute

one melee takes exactly 15 seconds and 60/15 equals 4 ... so you take 200 and divide that by 4 to get 50 ft per melee

so now this character might have say 5 actions per melee so you divide down again ... 50 divided by 5 equals 10 ft per action.

and that's how you figure out how far a character can move in a single action.

that is also why it is way easier to leave combat exactly how it curently works - turn based rather than time based - and just say that a character can move a distance equal to their speed attribute in feet per action.
NO its Spd x 20 = yards per minute.

Spd 10
10 x 20 = 200 yards per minute
200 yards per minute x 3 feet per yard = 600 feet per minute
600 feet per minute / 60 seconds per minute = WOAH 10 feet per second.

Spd 10 = 10 feet per second

_________________
"We live in a world where people use severed plant genitals to express affection.
Rifts is really not much weirder than that." ~~Killer Cyborg

"If we let technical problems scare us away from doing anything, humanity would still be in the trees flinging poo at each other."~~Killer Cyborg

"Everything that breeds is a threat."~~Killer Cyborg


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:20 pm
  

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Knight

Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 4274
Location: chillicothe, ohio; usa
Comment: Evil GM
Master of Magics
Defender of the Faith
Thinyser wrote:
EPIC wrote:
it's actually fairly simple math as the book describes speed as SPD x 20 per minute ... a speed of 10 equals 200 ft per minute

one melee takes exactly 15 seconds and 60/15 equals 4 ... so you take 200 and divide that by 4 to get 50 ft per melee

so now this character might have say 5 actions per melee so you divide down again ... 50 divided by 5 equals 10 ft per action.

and that's how you figure out how far a character can move in a single action.

that is also why it is way easier to leave combat exactly how it curently works - turn based rather than time based - and just say that a character can move a distance equal to their speed attribute in feet per action.
NO its Spd x 20 = yards per minute.

Spd 10
10 x 20 = 200 yards per minute
200 yards per minute x 3 feet per yard = 600 feet per minute
600 feet per minute / 60 seconds per minute = WOAH 10 feet per second.

Spd 10 = 10 feet per second
hey thinyser ever feel like this? :frust:

_________________
DM is correct by the way. - Ninjabunny
It's a shoddy carpenter who blames his tools. - Killer Cyborg
Every group has one problem player. If you cannot spot the one in your group; look in the mirror.
It is not a good session until at least one player looks you in the eye and says "you sick twisted evil ****"


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:23 am
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2004 7:58 pm
Posts: 4119
Location: Sioux Falls SD
Comment: "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."
~George Carlin
Damian Magecraft wrote:
Thinyser wrote:
EPIC wrote:
it's actually fairly simple math as the book describes speed as SPD x 20 per minute ... a speed of 10 equals 200 ft per minute

one melee takes exactly 15 seconds and 60/15 equals 4 ... so you take 200 and divide that by 4 to get 50 ft per melee

so now this character might have say 5 actions per melee so you divide down again ... 50 divided by 5 equals 10 ft per action.

and that's how you figure out how far a character can move in a single action.

that is also why it is way easier to leave combat exactly how it curently works - turn based rather than time based - and just say that a character can move a distance equal to their speed attribute in feet per action.
NO its Spd x 20 = yards per minute.

Spd 10
10 x 20 = 200 yards per minute
200 yards per minute x 3 feet per yard = 600 feet per minute
600 feet per minute / 60 seconds per minute = WOAH 10 feet per second.

Spd 10 = 10 feet per second
hey thinyser ever feel like this? :frust:


Never to the point that I would really bash my head against a brick wall (or any wall for that matter) but yes sometimes.

_________________
"We live in a world where people use severed plant genitals to express affection.
Rifts is really not much weirder than that." ~~Killer Cyborg

"If we let technical problems scare us away from doing anything, humanity would still be in the trees flinging poo at each other."~~Killer Cyborg

"Everything that breeds is a threat."~~Killer Cyborg


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:21 pm
  

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Megaversal® Ambassador

Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 11:18 am
Posts: 77
Location: Tyler, Tx
We break the round into 5 , 3 second phases. And apply speed to the phase. The max speed you can move in a round is 3 times your speed and moving at full speed in a round takes an action. And you can move up to half you full speed (1.5 times you spd in feet )in a round without using an action. If you have over 5 attacks in a melee round you can use the extra attacks at any time. So if you had 6 attacks you could to a run by attack using your full movement and one action.

Super fast charcters could do it as one action by moving at half there speed. However a chacter can always choose to hold his action until the super fast character comes close and make a simutanious attack.

It should be noted that useing an extra attack is general considered doing some kind of cool stunt in our group and should be adiquately described.

These rules where based on splice attack rules that I read somewhere but I modified them so they where set to 5 phases in order to better meter out the speed issue. This has also made combat much easier to handle.

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