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 Post subject: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:35 am
  

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Have any GMs out there created a Parkour Skill? I'm creating a group of super villains for HU, which I'll put up against the Characters and a Parkour Skill would really fit with them.

If anyone has created a Parkour Skill, I'd like to see what you've done and see if it'd fit my games.

Thanks in advance! :-D

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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 5:46 am
  

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GreenGhost wrote:
Have any GMs out there created a Parkour Skill? I'm creating a group of super villains for HU, which I'll put up against the Characters and a Parkour Skill would really fit with them.

If anyone has created a Parkour Skill, I'd like to see what you've done and see if it'd fit my games.

Thanks in advance! :-D
imo the skill is unneeded.
it would just be an application of the acrobatics and gymnastics skills as circumstances require.

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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:53 pm
  

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Damian Magecraft wrote:
GreenGhost wrote:
Have any GMs out there created a Parkour Skill? I'm creating a group of super villains for HU, which I'll put up against the Characters and a Parkour Skill would really fit with them.

If anyone has created a Parkour Skill, I'd like to see what you've done and see if it'd fit my games.

Thanks in advance! :-D
imo the skill is unneeded.
it would just be an application of the acrobatics and gymnastics skills as circumstances require.


That's true. I was thinking that the Acrobatics and Gymnastics skills are "limited" to particular O.C.C.'s. I think it can be useful in many Palladium Systems. Thieves in Palladium Fantasy is one of the O.C.C.'s that I think would be beneficial from a Parkour skill. :-D

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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 4:09 am
  

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The problem with creating a new skill is first you have ask
"will this skill provide anything new to the system."
"Can this be replicated by use of existing skills?"
"Who will be able to access this skill?"

And imo parkour is not justified to be a new skill.
Either acrobatics or gymnastics can be used in the appropriate situations.

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It's a shoddy carpenter who blames his tools. - Killer Cyborg
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It is not a good session until at least one player looks you in the eye and says "you sick twisted evil ****"


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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 4:36 am
  

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If Palladium had taken that approach we wouldn't have Acrobatics and Gymnastics (and Tumbling).

If you want a skill that is not Acrobatics or Gymnastics to represent Parkour, I'd say Tumbling from PFRPG book 3 is your go to.

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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:02 am
  

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Jefffar wrote:
If Palladium had taken that approach we wouldn't have Acrobatics and Gymnastics (and Tumbling).

If you want a skill that is not Acrobatics or Gymnastics to represent Parkour, I'd say Tumbling from PFRPG book 3 is your go to.

And if they had we might not have the skill bloat that exists now. (After a certain point granularity becomes excessive).

But yes the Tumbling skill would be a good substitute.

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DM is correct by the way. - Ninjabunny
It's a shoddy carpenter who blames his tools. - Killer Cyborg
Every group has one problem player. If you cannot spot the one in your group; look in the mirror.
It is not a good session until at least one player looks you in the eye and says "you sick twisted evil ****"


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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:10 pm
  

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I just hate the IDE of having those type skills. When exactly do you use them? In the ones we have now do we roll it for each move? Do we roll it for the "difficult" moves? How do we determine "difficult" moves? Do we only roll it for the entire performance? If there is a series of 22 moves required to get through a field of laser sensors do we roll 22 times? Worse for Parkour/Free Running do we'd be rolling constantly or once for the "course" or does the GM arbitrarily decide there are x number of difficult maneuvers that will need to be rolled for?

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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:55 pm
  

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when i created this skill (i called it freerunning though), i mainly focused on the special moves stuff.. how it allows you to scale walls and such.

my WIP version:

Freerunning: Freerunning is the art of crossing obstacles, so not to be slowed down when running. A freerunner has the ability to leap onto and jump off walls to reach high places or cross high walls, can jump from high heights and land running, run up and along vertical surfaces for short distances, and slide under or over obstacle to cross them without having to stop. Freerunning was created for urban movement, dealing with walls, fences, cars, and other such parts of the urban environment, but the principles can be applied to any obstacles, including natural ones like forests or rocky areas.
+1D4 SPD
+1 P.E.
+1 P.P.
Sense of Balance. 30% plus 5% Per Level
Wall scaling: A freerunner can use their momentum and leaping ability to run up vertical and near vertical surfaces for brief periods, to pass over obstacles or scale short walls. 30% plus 5% Per Level
Rebounding: a freerunner can use the local enviroment to jump high obstacles by bouncing off of walls and large items; and can land running, taking half damage and retaining momentum. 40% plus 5% per level

i'm still working on figuring out limits and penalties based on heights and stuff so it's less likely to be badly abused by players. i will probably tie it to the characters jump distance.

for use, you'd just roll the appropriate sub-skill for each challenging obstacle.

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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:34 am
  

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Jefffar wrote:
If Palladium had taken that approach we wouldn't have Acrobatics and Gymnastics (and Tumbling).

If you want a skill that is not Acrobatics or Gymnastics to represent Parkour, I'd say Tumbling from PFRPG book 3 is your go to.


Acrobatics (as in Circus) is not the same as Gymnastics (Olympic or competitive), they rely on totally different type of moves, maneuvers and skills. I couldn't see an Olympic gymnast working the trapeze or high wire, likewise a Circus acrobat doing a routine on the uneven parallel bars or the pommel horse.

Parkour/Free Running/Tracing/ect. is essentially a combination of Acrobatics and Running. Acrobatics having the leaping, tumbling, climbing and balance skills and Running having the endurance, technique, and timing training. So why reinvent the horse?

P.S. Tumbling is just a lesser version of Acrobatics with out the aerial and climbing skills.

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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:16 am
  

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Yes, if you want to make a fine enough distinction you can. But then we could have Knitting as a separate skill from Sewing too.

In game terms, Acrobatics, Gymnastics and Tumbling are close enough that they could be rolled into a single skill.

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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:24 pm
  

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glitterboy2098 wrote:
when i created this skill (i called it freerunning though), i mainly focused on the special moves stuff.. how it allows you to scale walls and such.

my WIP version:

Freerunning: Freerunning is the art of crossing obstacles, so not to be slowed down when running. A freerunner has the ability to leap onto and jump off walls to reach high places or cross high walls, can jump from high heights and land running, run up and along vertical surfaces for short distances, and slide under or over obstacle to cross them without having to stop. Freerunning was created for urban movement, dealing with walls, fences, cars, and other such parts of the urban environment, but the principles can be applied to any obstacles, including natural ones like forests or rocky areas.
+1D4 SPD
+1 P.E.
+1 P.P.
Sense of Balance. 30% plus 5% Per Level
Wall scaling: A freerunner can use their momentum and leaping ability to run up vertical and near vertical surfaces for brief periods, to pass over obstacles or scale short walls. 30% plus 5% Per Level
Rebounding: a freerunner can use the local enviroment to jump high obstacles by bouncing off of walls and large items; and can land running, taking half damage and retaining momentum. 40% plus 5% per level

i'm still working on figuring out limits and penalties based on heights and stuff so it's less likely to be badly abused by players. i will probably tie it to the characters jump distance.

for use, you'd just roll the appropriate sub-skill for each challenging obstacle.


Great adaption, I did my own also, took half gymnastics and half running to combine and one skill.

Parkour ** +2 Roll, +1 P.P. +2D4 Spd
50% + 5% per level — Sense of balance
60% + 5% per level — Back flip
25% Base climb ability or +7% to climb skill.

** A training discipline using movements developed from obstacle courses including running, climbing, swinging, vaulting, jumping, rolling, and quadrupedal movement using only the human body and the surroundings for propulsion, with a focus on maintaining as much momentum as possible while still remaining safe. Popular with City Rats, Juicers, and Crazies.

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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 2:05 pm
  

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Zer0 Kay wrote:
I just hate the IDE of having those type skills. When exactly do you use them? In the ones we have now do we roll it for each move? Do we roll it for the "difficult" moves? How do we determine "difficult" moves? Do we only roll it for the entire performance? If there is a series of 22 moves required to get through a field of laser sensors do we roll 22 times? Worse for Parkour/Free Running do we'd be rolling constantly or once for the "course" or does the GM arbitrarily decide there are x number of difficult maneuvers that will need to be rolled for?


Really, all of your questions represent the different ways GMs handle the situation, as I'm sure you know. So I have a question for you in return. How would you do it?

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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:28 pm
  

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Alrik Vas wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:
I just hate the IDE of having those type skills. When exactly do you use them? In the ones we have now do we roll it for each move? Do we roll it for the "difficult" moves? How do we determine "difficult" moves? Do we only roll it for the entire performance? If there is a series of 22 moves required to get through a field of laser sensors do we roll 22 times? Worse for Parkour/Free Running do we'd be rolling constantly or once for the "course" or does the GM arbitrarily decide there are x number of difficult maneuvers that will need to be rolled for?


Really, all of your questions represent the different ways GMs handle the situation, as I'm sure you know. So I have a question for you in return. How would you do it?


That is the issue. Like so many other rules there should be... Rules on how they're applied. I have at some point used all and more frequently than not skip the roll and allow the skill use if it advances the story, isn't ridiculous abuse of the skill and isn't combat related. In other cases if the player does something like "I bounce of the wall, run up the other wall and back flip onto the I-beam." Then Id have them roll for each item. If I say "well you can get over to the other side of the broken bridge by using your Free Running." Then I may only have them roll once or produce an "Arbitrary" number of times for the "difficult locations".

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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:51 pm
  

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Then there ya go. As there's no hard and fast rule for how it works, that's all we can really do. Palladium GMing is all about judgment calls. It's why you can have 2 different sessions run completely different, but still have as much fun...or argue for 2 hours haha...

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Y'all seem to assume that Palladium books are written with the same exacting precision with which they are analyzed. I think that is... ambitious.

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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:48 pm
  

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Knight

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Zer0 Kay wrote:
Alrik Vas wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:
I just hate the IDE of having those type skills. When exactly do you use them? In the ones we have now do we roll it for each move? Do we roll it for the "difficult" moves? How do we determine "difficult" moves? Do we only roll it for the entire performance? If there is a series of 22 moves required to get through a field of laser sensors do we roll 22 times? Worse for Parkour/Free Running do we'd be rolling constantly or once for the "course" or does the GM arbitrarily decide there are x number of difficult maneuvers that will need to be rolled for?


Really, all of your questions represent the different ways GMs handle the situation, as I'm sure you know. So I have a question for you in return. How would you do it?


That is the issue. Like so many other rules there should be... Rules on how they're applied. I have at some point used all and more frequently than not skip the roll and allow the skill use if it advances the story, isn't ridiculous abuse of the skill and isn't combat related. In other cases if the player does something like "I bounce of the wall, run up the other wall and back flip onto the I-beam." Then Id have them roll for each item. If I say "well you can get over to the other side of the broken bridge by using your Free Running." Then I may only have them roll once or produce an "Arbitrary" number of times for the "difficult locations".
which is a feature not a bug of the system.
different situations are going to require differing resolution.
which is appropriate?
That would depend on the tension level you are looking to create.

_________________
DM is correct by the way. - Ninjabunny
It's a shoddy carpenter who blames his tools. - Killer Cyborg
Every group has one problem player. If you cannot spot the one in your group; look in the mirror.
It is not a good session until at least one player looks you in the eye and says "you sick twisted evil ****"


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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:03 pm
  

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Jefffar wrote:
Yes, if you want to make a fine enough distinction you can. But then we could have Knitting as a separate skill from Sewing too.

In game terms, Acrobatics, Gymnastics and Tumbling are close enough that they could be rolled into a single skill.


The same could be said for all piloting...

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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:42 pm
  

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SpiritInterface wrote:
Jefffar wrote:
Yes, if you want to make a fine enough distinction you can. But then we could have Knitting as a separate skill from Sewing too.

In game terms, Acrobatics, Gymnastics and Tumbling are close enough that they could be rolled into a single skill.


The same could be said for all piloting...


Funnily enough, I considered using some of the piloting skill choices for such as well. The whole category could easily be shrunk into Pilot Ground Vehicles, Pilot Air Vehicles, Pilot Sea Vehicles and Pilot Space Vehicles.

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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:52 pm
  

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Knight

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Jefffar wrote:
SpiritInterface wrote:
Jefffar wrote:
Yes, if you want to make a fine enough distinction you can. But then we could have Knitting as a separate skill from Sewing too.

In game terms, Acrobatics, Gymnastics and Tumbling are close enough that they could be rolled into a single skill.


The same could be said for all piloting...


Funnily enough, I considered using some of the piloting skill choices for such as well. The whole category could easily be shrunk into Pilot Ground Vehicles, Pilot Air Vehicles, Pilot Sea Vehicles and Pilot Space Vehicles.

Pilot Sea should probably be broken down into powered and sail (different principles of operation).

_________________
DM is correct by the way. - Ninjabunny
It's a shoddy carpenter who blames his tools. - Killer Cyborg
Every group has one problem player. If you cannot spot the one in your group; look in the mirror.
It is not a good session until at least one player looks you in the eye and says "you sick twisted evil ****"


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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:39 pm
  

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Knight

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Comment: Don't waste your time gloating over a wounded enemy. Pull the damn trigger.
There's no need to. That's the attitude that brought us the skill mess this game has, honestly. Though let me clarify that, realistically, piloting a motorboat doesn't give you the ability to sail. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE. Though, to be honest, you could say the skill encompasses both through a simple explanation of your character's background.

"I grew up sailing with my dad, he was in the navy and loved get on the water. When I grew up, I got into motor boat racing because I love me some speed."

BAM, 1 skill, 2 uses. Easily explained.

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Mark Hall wrote:
Y'all seem to assume that Palladium books are written with the same exacting precision with which they are analyzed. I think that is... ambitious.

Talk from the Edge: Operation Dead Lift, Operation Reload, Operation Human Devil, Operation Handshake, Operation Windfall 1, Operation Windfall 2, Operation Sniper Wolf, Operation Natural 20


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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:21 pm
  

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Monk

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Alrik Vas wrote:
There's no need to. That's the attitude that brought us the skill mess this game has, honestly. Though let me clarify that, realistically, piloting a motorboat doesn't give you the ability to sail. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE. Though, to be honest, you could say the skill encompasses both through a simple explanation of your character's background.

"I grew up sailing with my dad, he was in the navy and loved get on the water. When I grew up, I got into motor boat racing because I love me some speed."

BAM, 1 skill, 2 uses. Easily explained.


And BAM one skill two uses for one character background. What happens if my character learned how to pilot large ships in the navy but never learned how to pilot something with an outboard motor or a sail and rudder. Your single skill approach breaks down. The current skill mess handles varried skills very well. Minimal skills like most R. Talsorian or White Wolf titles streamline gameplay but also make for relatively flat characters only differing in their back stories.

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BEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid

Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech

Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus

The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray,
Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)


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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:35 pm
  

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Supreme Being

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Zer0 Kay wrote:
Alrik Vas wrote:
There's no need to. That's the attitude that brought us the skill mess this game has, honestly. Though let me clarify that, realistically, piloting a motorboat doesn't give you the ability to sail. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE. Though, to be honest, you could say the skill encompasses both through a simple explanation of your character's background.

"I grew up sailing with my dad, he was in the navy and loved get on the water. When I grew up, I got into motor boat racing because I love me some speed."

BAM, 1 skill, 2 uses. Easily explained.


And BAM one skill two uses for one character background. What happens if my character learned how to pilot large ships in the navy but never learned how to pilot something with an outboard motor or a sail and rudder. Your single skill approach breaks down. The current skill mess handles varried skills very well. Minimal skills like most R. Talsorian or White Wolf titles streamline gameplay but also make for relatively flat characters only differing in their back stories.


Add skill specializations.

ie: Character has Pilot Watercraft (base skill 35%) but has taken a specialty in Large Ships so is at +20% dealing with those. They would have to take another specialty in powerboats to be good with them.

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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:24 pm
  

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Knight

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Comment: Don't waste your time gloating over a wounded enemy. Pull the damn trigger.
That I offered an explanation does not mean there is only one option.

Your GM can, if you so wish, limit you to piloting only one type of boat if that fits your background.

Yet I would have to wonder why you would want to, PC's being the doers of the RPG world and all. It doesn't make sense to be less capable.

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Mark Hall wrote:
Y'all seem to assume that Palladium books are written with the same exacting precision with which they are analyzed. I think that is... ambitious.

Talk from the Edge: Operation Dead Lift, Operation Reload, Operation Human Devil, Operation Handshake, Operation Windfall 1, Operation Windfall 2, Operation Sniper Wolf, Operation Natural 20


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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:34 pm
  

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Monk

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Jefffar wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:
Alrik Vas wrote:
There's no need to. That's the attitude that brought us the skill mess this game has, honestly. Though let me clarify that, realistically, piloting a motorboat doesn't give you the ability to sail. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE. Though, to be honest, you could say the skill encompasses both through a simple explanation of your character's background.

"I grew up sailing with my dad, he was in the navy and loved get on the water. When I grew up, I got into motor boat racing because I love me some speed."

BAM, 1 skill, 2 uses. Easily explained.


And BAM one skill two uses for one character background. What happens if my character learned how to pilot large ships in the navy but never learned how to pilot something with an outboard motor or a sail and rudder. Your single skill approach breaks down. The current skill mess handles varried skills very well. Minimal skills like most R. Talsorian or White Wolf titles streamline gameplay but also make for relatively flat characters only differing in their back stories.


Add skill specializations.

ie: Character has Pilot Watercraft (base skill 35%) but has taken a specialty in Large Ships so is at +20% dealing with those. They would have to take another specialty in powerboats to be good with them.


Right... But how is that different than having all the skills? Why end there? Lets go back even farther. Pilot with specializations and then a concentration on top of that? Heck lets make it a PP check skill with a specialization of pilot a concentration of watercraft and a focus of sailing? We don't because a general means that you can do all watercraft at the lower skill rating. Which isn't true in real life. Ones ability to figure out how something works without similarities is a combination of trial and error and intelligence. And on my most extreme example you'd be able to pilot a boat because you have gymnastics because they're both PP skills. Just doesn't work that way.

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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:36 pm
  

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Alrik Vas wrote:
That I offered an explanation does not mean there is only one option.

Your GM can, if you so wish, limit you to piloting only one type of boat if that fits your background.

Yet I would have to wonder why you would want to, PC's being the doers of the RPG world and all. It doesn't make sense to be less capable.


It makes sense if you've already come up with a concept and aren't just trying to max everything out.

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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:11 pm
  

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Knight

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Zer0 Kay wrote:
Alrik Vas wrote:
That I offered an explanation does not mean there is only one option.

Your GM can, if you so wish, limit you to piloting only one type of boat if that fits your background.

Yet I would have to wonder why you would want to, PC's being the doers of the RPG world and all. It doesn't make sense to be less capable.


It makes sense if you've already come up with a concept and aren't just trying to max everything out.

but human nature is to grab as much as possible without getting called on it.

I am all for streamlining the skill system but there is such a thing as too few skills.

it is an uneasy balance to maintain...

_________________
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It is not a good session until at least one player looks you in the eye and says "you sick twisted evil ****"


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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:25 pm
  

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Monk

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Damian Magecraft wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:
Alrik Vas wrote:
That I offered an explanation does not mean there is only one option.

Your GM can, if you so wish, limit you to piloting only one type of boat if that fits your background.

Yet I would have to wonder why you would want to, PC's being the doers of the RPG world and all. It doesn't make sense to be less capable.


It makes sense if you've already come up with a concept and aren't just trying to max everything out.

but human nature is to grab as much as possible without getting called on it.

I am all for streamlining the skill system but there is such a thing as too few skills.

it is an uneasy balance to maintain...


Agreed.

It is funny because we were playing a Dead Reign game and our characters were us and it was then that I determined that the skills given to classes are by no means meant to represent a real person's wealth of knowledge.

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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:59 pm
  

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If you know the material and have a mature understanding with your players, you aren't going to have issues with them sneaking powers in there. They should understand it's your call.

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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:23 pm
  

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Knight

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Alrik Vas wrote:
If you know the material and have a mature understanding with your players, you aren't going to have issues with them sneaking powers in there. They should understand it's your call.

Are we talking about the same hobby?
Mature?
I have seen better behavior out of a group of pre-teens than I have ever seen out of a group of so called adults; where gaming is concerned.

_________________
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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:05 am
  

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Knight

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You have my condolences for your experiences. I haven't gamed with that sort since my late teens/early twenties...and the sort that WAS that way grew up by their late twenties (either getting out of RPGs anyway, or being much more mature about it).

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Y'all seem to assume that Palladium books are written with the same exacting precision with which they are analyzed. I think that is... ambitious.

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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:26 am
  

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Supreme Being

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Any thoughts on Parkour (or at least skills) or shall we let this thread pass on?

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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:33 pm
  

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Monk

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Jefffar wrote:
Any thoughts on Parkour (or at least skills) or shall we let this thread pass on?

I don't know when they switched to powers its almost as if someone posted in the wrong post.

If we are going to increase granularity in order to increase resolution then Parkour/Free Running should be a separate skill.
It should give a PS, PE and Spd bonus and maybe have a max wall height to traverse without a percentile roll and maybe a max number of rebounds before skill roll and both can increase per level and total distance traveled regulated by PE. But would changing surfaces be a roll to strike or a percentage roll? Modifiers being based off of distance to new surface.
Parkour is more different from Gymnastics and Acrobatics than they re from each other. Granted it is close to a combination of both plus running.

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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:54 pm
  

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Knight

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Zer0 Kay wrote:
Jefffar wrote:
Any thoughts on Parkour (or at least skills) or shall we let this thread pass on?

I don't know when they switched to powers its almost as if someone posted in the wrong post.

If we are going to increase granularity in order to increase resolution then Parkour/Free Running should be a separate skill.
It should give a PS, PE and Spd bonus and maybe have a max wall height to traverse without a percentile roll and maybe a max number of rebounds before skill roll and both can increase per level and total distance traveled regulated by PE. But would changing surfaces be a roll to strike or a percentage roll? Modifiers being based off of distance to new surface.
Parkour is more different from Gymnastics and Acrobatics than they re from each other. Granted it is close to a combination of both plus running.
on the subject of Parkour as a skill...
lose the stat bonuses (if a player wants those that badly they can take the parent skills)but keep the rest.
Imo parkour and acrobatics and gymnastics are not that dissimilar. Parkour just includes a focus on environmental factors.

_________________
DM is correct by the way. - Ninjabunny
It's a shoddy carpenter who blames his tools. - Killer Cyborg
Every group has one problem player. If you cannot spot the one in your group; look in the mirror.
It is not a good session until at least one player looks you in the eye and says "you sick twisted evil ****"


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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:20 am
  

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i think the stat bonuses i put in work fine. they don't really make it a "must have" skill, but they do help reflect the exercise the character gets learning the skill.

and yes i agree that there needs to be limits on things like distances using these techniques. though they need to be flexible since from all the footage i've seen of Freerunning/parkour, there is a fair difference between what the better skilled can do and what the less skilled can do.

so i'd say that you set a lower bound (say, twice the normal jump height), and then a penalty for attempting to exceed that (say, -10% for each jump height past that)

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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 5:58 pm
  

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Monk

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Damian Magecraft wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:
Jefffar wrote:
Any thoughts on Parkour (or at least skills) or shall we let this thread pass on?

I don't know when they switched to powers its almost as if someone posted in the wrong post.

If we are going to increase granularity in order to increase resolution then Parkour/Free Running should be a separate skill.
It should give a PS, PE and Spd bonus and maybe have a max wall height to traverse without a percentile roll and maybe a max number of rebounds before skill roll and both can increase per level and total distance traveled regulated by PE. But would changing surfaces be a roll to strike or a percentage roll? Modifiers being based off of distance to new surface.
Parkour is more different from Gymnastics and Acrobatics than they re from each other. Granted it is close to a combination of both plus running.
on the subject of Parkour as a skill...
lose the stat bonuses (if a player wants those that badly they can take the parent skills)but keep the rest.
Imo parkour and acrobatics and gymnastics are not that dissimilar. Parkour just includes a focus on environmental factors.


I have never seen a gymnast run up a wall. And neither gymnastics nor acrobatics has as much running. They aren't parent skills. All skills are I learned to do this, NOT that. Most skills are self contained, very rarely are prerequisites encountered. So Free Running should either be self contained like the new SCUBA or have prerequisites of Acrobatics and/or Gymnastics like SCUBA used to require swimming. Or maybe Free Running could be a free synergy skill for having Gymnastics, Acrobatics and Running.

_________________
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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:09 pm
  

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glitterboy2098 wrote:
i think the stat bonuses i put in work fine. they don't really make it a "must have" skill, but they do help reflect the exercise the character gets learning the skill.

and yes i agree that there needs to be limits on things like distances using these techniques. though they need to be flexible since from all the footage i've seen of Freerunning/parkour, there is a fair difference between what the better skilled can do and what the less skilled can do.

so i'd say that you set a lower bound (say, twice the normal jump height), and then a penalty for attempting to exceed that (say, -10% for each jump height past that)


But there your assuming that a better role means you are more skilled. And we allow a novice to possibly match the master with a minimum plus roll instead of a level base max before roll.

So your way a novice and a master who have a 5 foot jump height can automatically make a 10 foot wall but an 11 foot wall the master has a better CHANCE to succeed.

My current brainstormed method the master will ALWAYS out jump the novice for "free" before having to roll, where the master will STILL be more like to make the jump.

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Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech

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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:58 pm
  

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Knight

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Comment: Evil GM
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Zer0 Kay wrote:
Damian Magecraft wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:
Jefffar wrote:
Any thoughts on Parkour (or at least skills) or shall we let this thread pass on?

I don't know when they switched to powers its almost as if someone posted in the wrong post.

If we are going to increase granularity in order to increase resolution then Parkour/Free Running should be a separate skill.
It should give a PS, PE and Spd bonus and maybe have a max wall height to traverse without a percentile roll and maybe a max number of rebounds before skill roll and both can increase per level and total distance traveled regulated by PE. But would changing surfaces be a roll to strike or a percentage roll? Modifiers being based off of distance to new surface.
Parkour is more different from Gymnastics and Acrobatics than they re from each other. Granted it is close to a combination of both plus running.
on the subject of Parkour as a skill...
lose the stat bonuses (if a player wants those that badly they can take the parent skills)but keep the rest.
Imo parkour and acrobatics and gymnastics are not that dissimilar. Parkour just includes a focus on environmental factors.


I have never seen a gymnast run up a wall. And neither gymnastics nor acrobatics has as much running. They aren't parent skills. All skills are I learned to do this, NOT that. Most skills are self contained, very rarely are prerequisites encountered. So Free Running should either be self contained like the new SCUBA or have prerequisites of Acrobatics and/or Gymnastics like SCUBA used to require swimming. Or maybe Free Running could be a free synergy skill for having Gymnastics, Acrobatics and Running.

the wall running is an environmental "hazard" adaption.
watch a full gymnastics meet...
every skill displayed in parkour is demonstrated.
I have no issue with including Parkour/Freerunning as a new skill as long as it provides something new to the list. (which providing improved checks for environmental hazards does).
if all it does is provide bonuses and duplicate an existing skill/combo then it just looks to be making a skill to be making a skill or for min/maxing purposes.

_________________
DM is correct by the way. - Ninjabunny
It's a shoddy carpenter who blames his tools. - Killer Cyborg
Every group has one problem player. If you cannot spot the one in your group; look in the mirror.
It is not a good session until at least one player looks you in the eye and says "you sick twisted evil ****"


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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:21 pm
  

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Monk

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Damian Magecraft wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:
Damian Magecraft wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:
Jefffar wrote:
Any thoughts on Parkour (or at least skills) or shall we let this thread pass on?

I don't know when they switched to powers its almost as if someone posted in the wrong post.

If we are going to increase granularity in order to increase resolution then Parkour/Free Running should be a separate skill.
It should give a PS, PE and Spd bonus and maybe have a max wall height to traverse without a percentile roll and maybe a max number of rebounds before skill roll and both can increase per level and total distance traveled regulated by PE. But would changing surfaces be a roll to strike or a percentage roll? Modifiers being based off of distance to new surface.
Parkour is more different from Gymnastics and Acrobatics than they re from each other. Granted it is close to a combination of both plus running.
on the subject of Parkour as a skill...
lose the stat bonuses (if a player wants those that badly they can take the parent skills)but keep the rest.
Imo parkour and acrobatics and gymnastics are not that dissimilar. Parkour just includes a focus on environmental factors.


I have never seen a gymnast run up a wall. And neither gymnastics nor acrobatics has as much running. They aren't parent skills. All skills are I learned to do this, NOT that. Most skills are self contained, very rarely are prerequisites encountered. So Free Running should either be self contained like the new SCUBA or have prerequisites of Acrobatics and/or Gymnastics like SCUBA used to require swimming. Or maybe Free Running could be a free synergy skill for having Gymnastics, Acrobatics and Running.

the wall running is an environmental "hazard" adaption.
watch a full gymnastics meet...
every skill displayed in parkour is demonstrated.
I have no issue with including Parkour/Freerunning as a new skill as long as it provides something new to the list. (which providing improved checks for environmental hazards does).
if all it does is provide bonuses and duplicate an existing skill/combo then it just looks to be making a skill to be making a skill or for min/maxing purposes.


Uh... Still missing the gymnastic part where they teach one to run up a wall. Not beam, not vault not parallel bars, not floor not rings not pommel horse, I must have missed wall. Saying that such a feat is easily adapted is like saying all runners should be able to do it because it is just a different surface, heck if you walk on the ground you should be able to walk up a wall, and that simply is not true.

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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:37 pm
  

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Knight

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"Wall running" = climb

Look, you convinced me the skill is justified.
But not if it provides an end run around existing restrictions.

No stat boosts that should be reserved for the larger skills (not every physical skill needs to provide a stat boost).
Have it grant a list of sub-skills (at lower bases than the "parent" skills) and a short list of additional bonuses for overcoming environmental hazards (the skills real strength).

Otherwise you run the risk of rendering Acrobatics and Gymnastics moot.

_________________
DM is correct by the way. - Ninjabunny
It's a shoddy carpenter who blames his tools. - Killer Cyborg
Every group has one problem player. If you cannot spot the one in your group; look in the mirror.
It is not a good session until at least one player looks you in the eye and says "you sick twisted evil ****"


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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:07 pm
  

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Supreme Being

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Comment: Being a moderator doesn't mean I speak for Palladium Books. It just makes me the lifeguard at their pool.
To be honest, the stat bonuses of most physical skills could probably be trimmed and things like outdoorsmanship or manual labour turned into character background bonuses.

But that's a whole other topic.

I've seen gymnasts and acrobats run up walls or spring off them in the context of performing flips or repositioning themselves for their next tricks. Also, Jackie Chan was trained as an acrobat and a martial artist by people who had likely never heard of parkour, but I think he is probably the greatest example of what parkour is supposed to be capable of.

I'm still not convinced that Acrobatics, Gymnastics, Tumbling and a hypothetical Parkour should be separate skills. I'd much rather a D&D style approach where they are unified into one skill (Tumbling in that case) and synergies are made in combination with other skills (like Climb) to represent the diverse actions a character can accomplish. This makes for simpler character design, less out of control bonus grabbing, and more creative play.

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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:43 pm
  

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Monk

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Damian Magecraft wrote:
"Wall running" = climb

Look, you convinced me the skill is justified.
But not if it provides an end run around existing restrictions.

No stat boosts that should be reserved for the larger skills (not every physical skill needs to provide a stat boost).
Have it grant a list of sub-skills (at lower bases than the "parent" skills) and a short list of additional bonuses for overcoming environmental hazards (the skills real strength).

Otherwise you run the risk of rendering Acrobatics and Gymnastics moot.


Hey no fair, you can not go IRL in one post and then IG in the next. Can't claim IRL if you watch a whole gymnastics meet I'll see All of the skills used in Free Running and then she I retort that IRL gymnastics does not include the skill, your response is that in game gymnastics does have climb as if that saves your statement that a gymnastics match IRL doesn't teach the exercise.

What do you mean about end run around existing restrictions?
I disagree, all physical training SHOULD include stat bonuses, otherwise it is just training, but then again I think some of the scholastic skills should provide I.Q., M.E., M.A. Bonuses, but that is just me. I agree about the skills being lesser than the "parent" skills with exceptional bonuses in new parkour/free run only stuff. Except, it should add synergistic bonuses to gymnastics and or acrobatics as each should do to each other as well. Making it beneficial to have all three rather than making any one subsume the others.

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Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech

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The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray,
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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:55 pm
  

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Monk

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Jefffar wrote:
To be honest, the stat bonuses of most physical skills could probably be trimmed and things like outdoorsmanship or manual labour turned into character background bonuses.

But that's a whole other topic.

I've seen gymnasts and acrobats run up walls or spring off them in the context of performing flips or repositioning themselves for their next tricks. Also, Jackie Chan was trained as an acrobat and a martial artist by people who had likely never heard of parkour, but I think he is probably the greatest example of what parkour is supposed to be capable of.

I'm still not convinced that Acrobatics, Gymnastics, Tumbling and a hypothetical Parkour should be separate skills. I'd much rather a D&D style approach where they are unified into one skill (Tumbling in that case) and synergies are made in combination with other skills (like Climb) to represent the diverse actions a character can accomplish. This makes for simpler character design, less out of control bonus grabbing, and more creative play.


Yes
Yes
Martial artists were the first displayed to leap off walls on film. A gymnast at a meet would never use a wall as a wall is never part of any event. Could they with training... Yeah, but it isn't taught as part of gymnastics. Acrobatics... well that is normal for show and less for competition so it all depends on what is needed. Jackie Chan probably learned it as part of martial arts, just as Bruce Lee did.
Yes it doe allow for more imagination just as whitewolf's magic system for mage allows for more imagination than D&D, and A system based off of using whatever stat is most closely related to a skill to use the skill, rather than actual having skills would allow for more creativity... and abuse.

_________________
:thwak: you some might think you're a :clown: but you're cool in book :ok: :thwak:--Mecha-Viper

BEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid

Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech

Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus

The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray,
Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)


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 Post subject: Re: Parkour Skill
Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 8:07 pm
  

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Knight

Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 4274
Location: chillicothe, ohio; usa
Comment: Evil GM
Master of Magics
Defender of the Faith
Zer0 Kay wrote:
Damian Magecraft wrote:
"Wall running" = climb

Look, you convinced me the skill is justified.
But not if it provides an end run around existing restrictions.

No stat boosts that should be reserved for the larger skills (not every physical skill needs to provide a stat boost).
Have it grant a list of sub-skills (at lower bases than the "parent" skills) and a short list of additional bonuses for overcoming environmental hazards (the skills real strength).

Otherwise you run the risk of rendering Acrobatics and Gymnastics moot.


Hey no fair, you can not go IRL in one post and then IG in the next. Can't claim IRL if you watch a whole gymnastics meet I'll see All of the skills used in Free Running and then she I retort that IRL gymnastics does not include the skill, your response is that in game gymnastics does have climb as if that saves your statement that a gymnastics match IRL doesn't teach the exercise.

What do you mean about end run around existing restrictions?
I disagree, all physical training SHOULD include stat bonuses, otherwise it is just training, but then again I think some of the scholastic skills should provide I.Q., M.E., M.A. Bonuses, but that is just me. I agree about the skills being lesser than the "parent" skills with exceptional bonuses in new parkour/free run only stuff. Except, it should add synergistic bonuses to gymnastics and or acrobatics as each should do to each other as well. Making it beneficial to have all three rather than making any one subsume the others.

By current raw they would synergize.
If a sub skills base is repeated you take the better of the two.
Add in the parkour environment handling and viola.

By end run around current restrictions i see parkour as a skill that would not be restricted like acrobatics and gymnastics are.

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