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Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:40 pm
  

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Demon Lord Extraordinaire

Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:28 pm
Posts: 6289
Location: Apocrypha
Comment: You probably think this comment is about you, don't you?
Has anyone looked into replacing the current skill selection systems with a point-based one? I've been sick of the cookie-cutter OCC system for a long time now, and while the skill program system from HU is an improvement, it doesn't allow for as much customization as I would like to see. I have a rough idea of what I'd like to use, but I don't have a clue for fleshing it out more. My basic ideas are as follows:

Base education points are determined by IQ. I realize that some people feel that skills should be tied to attributes more than they currently are, which is fine. I feel that way as well. Learning how to do something though should always be based of off your IQ.

Base points are then modified by education levels, social status, and/or cultural backgrounds. So someone in the HU setting getting a BA has their ed points multiplied by 2 or 3 or whatever, whereas someone from the Timero kingdom in PFRPG might have no modifier, or even a loss due to lack of education, money, societal pressures, or whatever.

Each OCC still gets free skills (I'm thinking 5-10) that are taught to everyone with that OCC. So for example Ley Line Walkers might all get trained in Magic Lore, Demon & Monster Lore, Fairy Lore, Dragonese, and Literacy. Your basic CS soldier gets trained in WP Energy Rifle, First Aid, Basic Radio, Military Etiquite, and HtH Expert (Advanced soldiers get those, plus piloting skills, mechanical skills, or medical skills. All depends on what MOS they take). A thief gets Prowl, Pick Pockets, Pick Locks, Safecracking, and Streetwise. All of these skills are in addition to the skills you would get from your ed points.

Learning a skill outside of your OCC or education level can be done, but at a penalty. So for example your mage could learn how to pilot a robot, but at twice the required ed points. A high school dropout could learn to be a MD, but that costs him four times the points (plus the requirements for that skill). This should allow for some freedom with deciding how you want your character to develop, but at the same time restrict you from being able to munchkinize your character away from how a class was originally conceived. (I think that's what I want to say. This is one of the spots I'm getting a roadblock at.)

RCCs, that are truly RCCs and not "ThisisanewspeciesImadeandI'mjustcallingitanRCCeventhoughImeanspeciesbecauseittakeslesstimeandprinterinktosayRCCthanitdoesspeciesandhere'swhatskillsmostofthemhavebutI'mnotgoingtoclarifythattheycanbeOCCsaswellbecauseoftime&money" will not be changed at all. The RCCs that are not truly RCCs can then be clarified for what their social and cultural backgrounds are so you can figure out what their ed points are, and also be given a template as to what skills most tend to have.

After that I have no idea where to go. Should all skills cost a single ed point? Should some cost way more than others? This is kind of why I'm asking if anyone has looked into this idea already.


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Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:04 pm
  

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Megaversal® Ambassador

Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:25 pm
Posts: 1648
Location: Reno, Nevada
I think your idea is unnecessarily complicated. I would prefer a base number of skill slots that can be filled to meet your desired concept with skill values established by category (general education +15%, professional training +25%, self-taught +0%). Skill slots could then be added as an intelligence bonus, per level, and by accepting disadvantages (age, organizational ties/being hunted, etc.) and traded for bonuses to individual skills(+10% for general ed, +15% for professional training, +5% for self-taught), psychic powers (replacing random powers), stat bonuses (instead of physical skills that don't establish a new capability), and other advantages (professional quality, additional area of knowledge).

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Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:31 am
  

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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:09 pm
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Location: Plymouth, CT
Comment: The silent thief of Rozrehxeson.
I tried to implement a house rule once which had a PC add up all the "+X% per level" notes of all their skills, and turn that total into a # of skill points that could be added to the skills every level. The limit was that no skill could go above 98%, and no skill could have more points added to it than the character's I.Q. number. We only played one or two games though so it never got really play tested.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:34 pm
  

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Palladin

Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:32 am
Posts: 6675
Location: 'Murica
Comment: Avid Cyborg and Braka Braka enthusiast.
As gm i add in 3 or 4 MOS skills to some occs, or i allow the player 2 mutant traits to make their character unique.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:09 am
  

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Knight

Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:50 am
Posts: 6152
Location: WI
It sounds like you just want a new way to determine Other/Related & Secondary Skills that isn't fixed by the class that takes into account I.Q. In which case I'd just go with the IQ attribute being divided up equally and may be even a +1 or +2 to each. That is off-hand though, if I did a pool of OCCs and such I might change the ratio and extras.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 7:21 pm
  

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Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:03 am
Posts: 365
Location: Phoenix, AZ

I do like the idea of separating WHAT YOU ARE from WHAT YOU DO. I mean, so many of the alien races throughout palladium books are only allowed to be the one thing that they were designed as, be that a specialized pilot, thief, gun-bunny, what have you... I certainly get the concept that certain races would be naturally good at certain things, and would tend to do those things naturally, but that doesn't mean that EVERY MEMBER of those races do ONLY those things... I think things would be much easier, and more flexible, If they were separated... it's something that should have happened a long time ago. I may be wrong, but I think Palladium is the only gaming system in current publication that still uses the "You do what you are" concept. D&D left that behind in second edition, back in 1989. I don't want to see Palladium turn into just another d20 system, but there are lessons from the evolution of the gaming industry that could be used to improve Palladium.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 5:00 am
  

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Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:54 am
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Comment: I ******* hate the atmosphere of the conversations here on these forums
have fun with the game

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Last edited by mercedogre on Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:54 pm
  

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Palladin

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
Posts: 9478
Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
torjones wrote:

I do like the idea of separating WHAT YOU ARE from WHAT YOU DO. I mean, so many of the alien races throughout palladium books are only allowed to be the one thing that they were designed as, be that a specialized pilot, thief, gun-bunny, what have you... I certainly get the concept that certain races would be naturally good at certain things, and would tend to do those things naturally, but that doesn't mean that EVERY MEMBER of those races do ONLY those things... I think things would be much easier, and more flexible, If they were separated... it's something that should have happened a long time ago. I may be wrong, but I think Palladium is the only gaming system in current publication that still uses the "You do what you are" concept. D&D left that behind in second edition, back in 1989. I don't want to see Palladium turn into just another d20 system, but there are lessons from the evolution of the gaming industry that could be used to improve Palladium.

A solution there might be some sort of 'skill swap'
So if your race is natural <something> then you can take any O.C.C. but the race automatically takes Skills X, Y, and Z, as O.C.C. Related skills. If you have more OCCR skill slots then buy away (and there could even be a list of skills that the race can take regardless of class with their bonus.)
So for example, a race which is amazing pilots
All members buy Pilot: Hovercraft or Pilot Aircraft +15, Acrobatic flight, Combat Flying, Read sensory Instruments+5
All members may buy any flying piloting skill regardless of OCC +10, and may buy from the pilot related class, as well as basic mechanics, and basic electronics at +5.

Then you could be the SpiffyPilito's R.C.C.........or a Cyber-Doc who happens to be a SpiffyPilito and flies a mean hover ambulance.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 2:44 am
  

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Explorer

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:15 am
Posts: 126
Location: Upland California
I know this post is a bit old, but I wanted to add to it. I build custom OCC's for each PC character or significant NPC. I have no specific rules or boundaries. The human brain is only limited by education, ability and experience. I have made "Juicer" with 22 skills total, and I have an Invid Clone Pilot with 67 skills because he wants to live as a human and be an "artist". I tried points, skill slot numbers, and game balance strategies, and they all fell short of the feel that I wanted. So, I just build the characters the way their background describes them. My fear when I first tried this was that it would make characters too powerful or too much overlap in skill sets. What I discovered, now that I've built 10 characters and prepped a dozen more OCC's for future use, is that characters get a lot of the intellectual skills they need and are often overlooked or sacrificed for combat ability. This had made the games much richer because all my PC's have hobbies and side-jobs that I can use as tie-ins to my story lines. There are no cookie-cutter characters in my game, but I must admit that it takes a bit of dedication to build that many characters and get really good at it. One of my balancing tricks is to control specialization. My Invid Artist for example has no skills with a bonus greater than 10%. Why? He's only 5 years old as a clone. To have as many interests as he has and to be so young, I limited his ability to specialize. My Juicer on the other hand is a professional burglar and pick-pocket (+15 or 20 to rogue skills), who turned to juicing in an act of desperation. He's really not a good fighter, but his abilities make him like the Hulk. Even Hand to Hand Basic looks good when you are juiced. One of the keys to making this work is that the GM has build the character around a specific background and not allow players to min/max. There is no taking Boxing to get that extra attack unless being a Boxer is in your background as a key point. I began dabbling with this idea nearly a year ago and now have enough excel files with premade skill sets (like MOS's) that I can now build most any type of character that I need. Currently I have active as PC's or NPC's: Rogue/Peace Officer (similar skill sets, different side of the badge), Doctor, Mech Pilot, Smuggler, Artist, Journalist, Infantry (with or without Power Armor training), Rock Star and Theater Actor so far.

I'm not saying you have to rewrite all the OCC's like I did. But don't be afraid to make house rules that make the game more rich and interesting. I just awarded on of my PC's with "Impersonation" because he spent the last 4 games roleplaying it. Waiting till he is 3rd level when he's already making the game fun now is just silly. At 3rd level he can have his OCC bonus of 10%.


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