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Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:46 pm
  

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Wanderer

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Heey guuys! :lol:

Soo, I noticed that no one compiled a list of what they consider to be creation spells. I made a list of every spell that says that it 'creates' something and/or has create in the name. After viewing this list I feel like it balances the class because of PPE limits OCC and the access to anything in the list makes them able to compete, to a degree. I feel like the limit to spells being added adds a flavor of challenge to pick the right one! These are the spells that I found based on create being in description or name.

Level 1
Blinding Flash
Cloud of Smoke

Level 3
Armor of Ithan
Create Wood
Energy Bolt
Float in Air
Magic Shield

Level 4
Carpet of Adhesion
Energy Field
Fire Bolt
Magic Net
Multiple Image

Level 5
Armor Bizarre
Circle of flame
Horrific Ilusion

Level 6
Apparition
Call Lightning
Create Water
Fire Ball
Fire Blossom
Illusory Wall
Magic Pigeon
Mask of Deceit

Level 7
Globe of Silence
Sub-Particle Acceleration
Wind Rush

Level 8
Fire Globe
Hallucination
Ley Line Tendril Bolts
Shockwave
Wall of Wind

Level 9
Create Steel
D-Step
Ley Line Time Flux

Level 10
Illusory Forest
Magic Warrior
Mystic Portal


Level 11
Anti-Magic Cloud
Astral Hole
Create Mummy
Create Magic Scroll
Energy Sphere
Id Alter Ego
Illusory Terrain
Ley Line Storm Defense

Level 12
Create Zombie
Null Sphere

Level 13
Create Golem
Shadow Wall
Summon and Control Storm

Level 14
Annihilate
Impenetrable Wall of Force

Level 15
Enchant Weapon

Thoughts?


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Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:24 pm
  

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Dungeon Crawler

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Maybe add Globe of Daylight to the list? It is creating something.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:53 pm
  

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Mechghost wrote:
Maybe add Globe of Daylight to the list? It is creating something.


Oh ya, I didn't add it because the conjurer already gets it. What do you think about whether it gives the class the balance? I feel like it basically 'follows the rules'.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:15 am
  

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Comment: The silent thief of Rozrehxeson.
I don't like the illusion spells on that list. The Conjurer creates real things, not pretend images of things.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:31 am
  

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Comment: The silent thief of Rozrehxeson.
i don't like that there are enchantment and necromancy spells on that list, too. The conjurer makes things. He doesn't empower them. He doesn't enchant them. There are too many spells in this list that, in my opinon, simply don't belong. Here's what I would pare the list down to:

Level 1
Blinding Flash
Cloud of Smoke

Level 3
Create Wood

Level 4
Fire Bolt

Level 5
Circle of flame

Level 6
Call Lightning
Create Water
Fire Ball
Fire Blossom

Level 8
Fire Globe

Level 9
Create Steel

Level 14
Annihilate

I'm still not convinced the Fire or Lightning spells belong on there (can a Conjurer make fire?), but spells I would add would be the Elemental spells that create things. Specifically the Earth and Water elemental spells.

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kiralon: "...the best way to kill an old one is to crash a moon into it."

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:16 pm
  

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Monk

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
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Create Mummy
Create Magic Scroll
Create Zombie
Create Golem
Enchant Weapon

These are all enchantment spells. Not conjuring something out of "thin air".

And Float int he Air is not conjuring ether, & some of the other spells I would have to review to state it they are or are not conjuration spells.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:33 pm
  

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Wanderer

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I thought about all of that, but there is obviously some balance smoothing that is needed or they did when they wrote it. Create in the title seems to be almost ALL ritual spells, for the most part. I've actually left out a few spells that still have the word create in them (that i meant to have in). I'm wondering if I should just include anything with the word 'create' in the definition and the title. It will allow the caster to have more options. It would make sense that the writers would have designed it that was for a balancing effect. They get a bunch of spells with different functions to pick from that they can pick any of from any level, but you only get to pick 7 for the entire game.

**in relation to not being conjuring**
I was using the assumption that the classification of the magic 'creation' is just a type of magic that doesn't have any real clear boundaries. For example, create mummy, zombie, golem.. these spells essentially are taking components and adding them together to create something. It is not 'conjuring', technically, it is creation. Possibly, the lvl 15 spell of enchant weapon is so powerful in the way it changes the nature of this weapon that the wording is different in that it is, essentially, creating a rune weapon of sorts. This would just based on the sheer difference. I was not to happy about the illusions being in there, but I could see it being there for balancing. So I justify it by saying that these spells are so power that creation magic is woven into their spells. I mean for the most part you could explain there being any reason that 'creation' is included as part of these particular spells.

I also want to draw a line in the sand between conjure and creation. The text says the caster is learning spells that are creation and not conjure.

Anyways, this is how I justified these things being added. Also, fits with the ruling in FOM, somewhat. It also balances the class by allowing it pick any level but only 7. The class has low PPE so it somewhat limits them on the higher up spells. Just my attempt at 'keeping it legal', but still making the class fun. :)


EDIT: What's up DrewKitty?! :)


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Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:57 am
  

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Ummm... the conjurer O.C.C. already lists the spells considered 'creation' spells to choose from. Page 33, right under '2. Limited spell knowledge'.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:04 pm
  

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Soldier of Od wrote:
Ummm... the conjurer O.C.C. already lists the spells considered 'creation' spells to choose from. Page 33, right under '2. Limited spell knowledge'.


Which book are you referring to? I checked BOM and FOM. Could you list them for me? o0


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Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:12 pm
  

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Dinne wrote:
Soldier of Od wrote:
Ummm... the conjurer O.C.C. already lists the spells considered 'creation' spells to choose from. Page 33, right under '2. Limited spell knowledge'.


Which book are you referring to? I checked BOM and FOM. Could you list them for me? o0

Greetings and Salutations. Upon seeing these two posts, I checked my books. In FoM, it states spells that start with "create." So if the spell doesn't start with that word, it wouldn't be included (by what's written). Now, with that said, I didn't stop my search there. Conjurers have also been printed in PF Book 10: Mount Nimro. On Page 33, it does indeed have a list of spells (19 total, only four of which have "Create" as the first word of the spell title). Due to forum rules, I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post the list here or not. If you can get a moderator to give the okay, I'll happily due so for you. Hope that at least helps. Farewell and safe journeys for now.


Note: I will say a good number of the spells in the PF Conjurer list are NOT on your list, while many of the ones on your list are NOT on the PF Conjurer list. Some of these are likely a result of difference in setting (PF has some spells that Rifts doesn't have, and vice versa). Though I will say the list includes 6 Summon spells, though none of which are the Summon spell on your list. I think only about 8 of the 19 spells are on both lists. I know that's a lot of vagueness, sorry.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:53 am
  

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Wanderer

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Ok.. I suck. I'll just make a new list that is seemly conjuration or creation... I hate my life. I feel like I should just omit this class, at this point.

Edit: Should creating energy be conjuration? Like Energy bolt or Fire blast? You are quite literally creating something out of nothing.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:29 am
  

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Comment: The silent thief of Rozrehxeson.
Can the Conjurer's special ability normally conjure fire?

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kiralon: "...the best way to kill an old one is to crash a moon into it."

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Temporal Wizard O.C.C. update 0.8 | New Temporal Magic
Rifts random encounters | New Elemental Magic | Lore: Superhuman

OK, Boomer.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:03 am
  

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Adventurer

Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:32 am
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Prysus wrote:
Dinne wrote:
Soldier of Od wrote:
Ummm... the conjurer O.C.C. already lists the spells considered 'creation' spells to choose from. Page 33, right under '2. Limited spell knowledge'.


Which book are you referring to? I checked BOM and FOM. Could you list them for me? o0

Greetings and Salutations. Upon seeing these two posts, I checked my books. In FoM, it states spells that start with "create." So if the spell doesn't start with that word, it wouldn't be included (by what's written). Now, with that said, I didn't stop my search there. Conjurers have also been printed in PF Book 10: Mount Nimro. On Page 33, it does indeed have a list of spells (19 total, only four of which have "Create" as the first word of the spell title). Due to forum rules, I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post the list here or not. If you can get a moderator to give the okay, I'll happily due so for you. Hope that at least helps. Farewell and safe journeys for now.


Note: I will say a good number of the spells in the PF Conjurer list are NOT on your list, while many of the ones on your list are NOT on the PF Conjurer list. Some of these are likely a result of difference in setting (PF has some spells that Rifts doesn't have, and vice versa). Though I will say the list includes 6 Summon spells, though none of which are the Summon spell on your list. I think only about 8 of the 19 spells are on both lists. I know that's a lot of vagueness, sorry.


Yeah, Mount Nimro, as Prysus says. What does BOM and FOM stand for?


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:38 am
  

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Soldier of Od wrote:
Yeah, Mount Nimro, as Prysus says. What does BOM and FOM stand for?

Greetings and Salutations. Book of Magic and Federation of Magic, both Rifts books. Farewell and safe journeys.

_________________
Living the Fantasy (fan website)

Rifter #45; Of Bows & Arrows (Archery; expanding rules and abilities)
Rifter #52; From Ruins to Runes (Living Rune Weapons; playable characters and NPC)
Rifter #55; Home Away From Home (Quorian Culture; expanded from PF Book 9: Baalgor Wastelands)

Official PDF versions of Rifter #45, #52, and #55 can be found at DriveThruRPG.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:31 am
  

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Prysus wrote:
Soldier of Od wrote:
Yeah, Mount Nimro, as Prysus says. What does BOM and FOM stand for?

Greetings and Salutations. Book of Magic and Federation of Magic, both Rifts books. Farewell and safe journeys.


Oh, okay, sorry, - I didn't realise that the conjurer was also available in the Rifts setting. The original post didn't mention a game line. Thanks.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 6:38 pm
  

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Soldier of Od wrote:
Prysus wrote:
Soldier of Od wrote:
Yeah, Mount Nimro, as Prysus says. What does BOM and FOM stand for?

Greetings and Salutations. Book of Magic and Federation of Magic, both Rifts books. Farewell and safe journeys.


Oh, okay, sorry, - I didn't realise that the conjurer was also available in the Rifts setting. The original post didn't mention a game line. Thanks.


That's my bad I'm just rolling with the punches on this conjurer class. I have the new list that I think people might find more acceptable.

Level 2
Throwing Stones(5)

Level 3
Armor of Ithan(10)
Create Wood(10-20)
Magic Shield(6)
Orb of Cold(6)

Level 4
Carpet of Adhesion(10)
Magic Net(7)

Level 5
Armor Bizarre(15)

Level 6
Create Water(15)
Fire Blossom(20)
Ice(15)
Magic Pigeon (20)

Level 8
Fire Globe(40)
Invincible Armor(30)

Level 9
Create Steel(68)
Familiar Link(55)
Summon & Control Canines(50)
Water to Wine(40)

Level 10
Magic Warrior(60)
Meteor(75)
Summon and Control Rodents(70)
Summon Great Familiar(80)
Summon Shadow Beast(140)

Level 11
Create Mummy(160)
Energy Sphere(120)
Summon and Control Animals(125)

Level 12
Create Zombie(160)
Summon and Control Entity(150)
Wall of the Weird(180)

Level 13
Create Golem(170 or 1000)
Summon Lesser Being(425)
Talisman(500)

Level 15
Annihilate(300)


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Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 9:25 pm
  

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Monk

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
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Even with the "new" list you have things that are not Conjuring.

There are too many non-conjuring spells in your list.

Edited list that has all the non-conjuing spells removed.

Level 2
Throwing Stones(5)

Level 3
Armor of Ithan(10)
Create Wood(10-20)
Magic Shield(6)
Orb of Cold(6)

Level 4
Carpet of Adhesion(10)
Magic Net(7)

Level 5
Armor Bizarre(15)

Level 6
Create Water(15)
Fire Blossom(20)
Ice(15)
Magic Pigeon (20)

Level 8
Fire Globe(40)
Invincible Armor(30)

Level 9
Create Steel(68) (left this in even though it mostly Recycles Metals)


Level 10
Magic Warrior(60)
Meteor(75)

Level 11
Energy Sphere(120)


Level 12
Wall of the Weird(180)

Level 13

Level 15
Annihilate(300)

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