Board index » Across the Megaverse® » G.M.s Forum

 


Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.
Author Message
Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:47 pm
  

User avatar
Hero

Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 9:48 pm
Posts: 817
Location: Top Secret Goverment Thinktank
I was reading a biography of Lewis B "Chesty" Puller and in it they talk about how Chesty was strong enough to keep a Thompson SMG on target while firing it on full auto. It got me thinking that shouldn't characters with Super Human or Supernatural strengths be able to overcome the effects of firing a burst (i.e. no penalty for burst fire)?

_________________
Veni Vidi Vici
Una Salus Victis Nullam Sperare Salutem
Sic vis pacem, Para bellum
Audentes fortuna iuvat
O Tolmon Nika
Oderint Dum Metuant


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:38 pm
  

User avatar
Megaversal® Ambassador

Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:25 pm
Posts: 1648
Location: Reno, Nevada
Not sure which rule book you're referencing. Rifts Ultimate Edition does not indicate that the attack bonus reduction is due to recoil, and it wouldn't make sense if it did since most energy weapons don't have a recoil.

_________________
Contact me if you're looking for games in Reno, Nevada.
Resources


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:44 pm
  

User avatar
Priest

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
Posts: 28366
Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
Bill wrote:
Not sure which rule book you're referencing. Rifts Ultimate Edition does not indicate that the attack bonus reduction is due to recoil, and it wouldn't make sense if it did since most energy weapons don't have a recoil.


A short burst from a slugthrower works the same as a short burst from a laser rifle.
Either slugthrowers don't have recoil either, or laser rifles do.

_________________
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)

"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell

Check out my Author Page on Amazon!


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:53 pm
  

User avatar
Megaversal® Ambassador

Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:25 pm
Posts: 1648
Location: Reno, Nevada
The rule does not mention recoil.

Rifts, Ultimate Edition, p.361 wrote:
Shooting bursts: Automatic firing, or bursts, are not intended for accuracy: reduce the shooter's normal W.P. bonuses to strike by half. If the character does not have a W.P. for the weapon he is -3 to strike.


I think it accurately reflects that it's much harder to hit a target multiple times in rapid succession than it is to fire once. If you want to make it about recoil and complicate things with a houserule that recoilless weapons and beings able to compensate for the recoil of a weapon with supernatural strength are not subject to the reduction, be my guest.

_________________
Contact me if you're looking for games in Reno, Nevada.
Resources


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:55 pm
  

User avatar
Priest

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
Posts: 28366
Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
Bill wrote:
The rule does not mention recoil.

Rifts, Ultimate Edition, p.361 wrote:
Shooting bursts: Automatic firing, or bursts, are not intended for accuracy: reduce the shooter's normal W.P. bonuses to strike by half. If the character does not have a W.P. for the weapon he is -3 to strike.


I think it accurately reflects that it's much harder to hit a target multiple times in rapid succession than it is to fire once.


Because of recoil.

Quote:
If you want to make it about recoil and complicate things with a houserule that recoilless weapons and beings able to compensate for the recoil of a weapon with supernatural strength are not subject to the reduction, be my guest.


If you want to assume that slugthrowers never have recoil, and/or that recoil doesn't affect the accuracy of bursts, go right ahead. ;)

_________________
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)

"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell

Check out my Author Page on Amazon!


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:14 pm
  

User avatar
Megaversal® Ambassador

Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:25 pm
Posts: 1648
Location: Reno, Nevada
Killer Cyborg wrote:
Bill wrote:
The rule does not mention recoil.

Rifts, Ultimate Edition, p.361 wrote:
Shooting bursts: Automatic firing, or bursts, are not intended for accuracy: reduce the shooter's normal W.P. bonuses to strike by half. If the character does not have a W.P. for the weapon he is -3 to strike.


I think it accurately reflects that it's much harder to hit a target multiple times in rapid succession than it is to fire once.


Because of recoil.

The burst rule applies to weapons that don't have recoil though, hence why it is about firing multiple times in rapid succession and not recoil.

_________________
Contact me if you're looking for games in Reno, Nevada.
Resources


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:18 pm
  

User avatar
Priest

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
Posts: 28366
Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
Bill wrote:
Killer Cyborg wrote:
Bill wrote:
The rule does not mention recoil.

Rifts, Ultimate Edition, p.361 wrote:
Shooting bursts: Automatic firing, or bursts, are not intended for accuracy: reduce the shooter's normal W.P. bonuses to strike by half. If the character does not have a W.P. for the weapon he is -3 to strike.


I think it accurately reflects that it's much harder to hit a target multiple times in rapid succession than it is to fire once.


Because of recoil.

The burst rule applies to weapons that don't have recoil though, hence why it is about firing multiple times in rapid succession and not recoil.


Sure.
Except if it's only about hasty aim from multiple shots, THAT would mean that recoil doesn't actually affect accuracy when firing multiple bullets, and anybody who's fired a real gun knows that simply isn't true.
Hence, it is about recoil.

Also, the rules in multiple books state that it's partially about recoil.
Hence, it is partially about recoil.

TMNT 67
A burst is the shooting of several rounds, one immediately after another. Aim is more hasty and the recoil moves the weapon with each shot, reducing accuracy.

HU2 75
The act of shooting several rounds makes aim more hasty and the recoil moves the weapon with each shot, reducing the accuracy.

Rifts 34
A burst is the shooting of several rounds, one immediately after another. Aim is more hasty and the recoil moves the weapon with each shot, reducing the accuracy.

Just for example.

_________________
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)

"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell

Check out my Author Page on Amazon!


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:25 pm
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:20 pm
Posts: 4916
Location: Right behind you.
Comment: Don't waste your time gloating over a wounded enemy. Pull the damn trigger.
wait, half bonuses but -3 for no WP? I'd just make it -3 all the time...come on palladium...

_________________
Mark Hall wrote:
Y'all seem to assume that Palladium books are written with the same exacting precision with which they are analyzed. I think that is... ambitious.

Talk from the Edge: Operation Dead Lift, Operation Reload, Operation Human Devil, Operation Handshake, Operation Windfall 1, Operation Windfall 2, Operation Sniper Wolf, Operation Natural 20


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:34 pm
  

User avatar
Hero

Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 9:48 pm
Posts: 817
Location: Top Secret Goverment Thinktank
In the Rifts GMG page 40 Siembieda talks about energy weapons outside lasers having recoil. He also exempts lasers from the penalties for burst fire. That has been covered extensively in previous posts.

The point of this thread in not about that, it is about being able to overcome its effects.

_________________
Veni Vidi Vici
Una Salus Victis Nullam Sperare Salutem
Sic vis pacem, Para bellum
Audentes fortuna iuvat
O Tolmon Nika
Oderint Dum Metuant


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:21 pm
  

User avatar
Priest

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
Posts: 28366
Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
SpiritInterface wrote:
In the Rifts GMG page 40 Siembieda talks about energy weapons outside lasers having recoil. He also exempts lasers from the penalties for burst fire. That has been covered extensively in previous posts.

The point of this thread in not about that, it is about being able to overcome its effects.


Don't remember the bolded part, and I can't check my copy because it's on loan to a friend.

Your overall question is about whether characters with Supernatural PS should be more resistant to penalties from recoil, and part of that would be determining what the penalties are.
But, of course, only part.

In any case, I'd say YES, they should be less effected by recoil, BUT so should really strong guys with normal PS, and characters with enhanced strength like Dog Boys and such, and (possibly more than anybody else) Robots.
And characters with low PS should be even more affected by recoil.

Which seems to add up to a lot of rule/chart making, if one wants things done really right.
So far, I've simply been content to run the burst rules as they are. It might not be an accurate simulation of reality, but much of the game shares the same problem.

_________________
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)

"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell

Check out my Author Page on Amazon!


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:32 pm
  

User avatar
Megaversal® Ambassador

Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:25 pm
Posts: 1648
Location: Reno, Nevada
Killer Cyborg wrote:
Also, the rules in multiple books state that it's partially about recoil.
Hence, it is partially about recoil.

TMNT 67
A burst is the shooting of several rounds, one immediately after another. Aim is more hasty and the recoil moves the weapon with each shot, reducing accuracy.

HU2 75
The act of shooting several rounds makes aim more hasty and the recoil moves the weapon with each shot, reducing the accuracy.

Rifts 34
A burst is the shooting of several rounds, one immediately after another. Aim is more hasty and the recoil moves the weapon with each shot, reducing the accuracy.

Just for example.

Thanks. I much prefer quoted rules.

_________________
Contact me if you're looking for games in Reno, Nevada.
Resources


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:10 pm
  

User avatar
Priest

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
Posts: 28366
Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
Bill wrote:
Killer Cyborg wrote:
Also, the rules in multiple books state that it's partially about recoil.
Hence, it is partially about recoil.

TMNT 67
A burst is the shooting of several rounds, one immediately after another. Aim is more hasty and the recoil moves the weapon with each shot, reducing accuracy.

HU2 75
The act of shooting several rounds makes aim more hasty and the recoil moves the weapon with each shot, reducing the accuracy.

Rifts 34
A burst is the shooting of several rounds, one immediately after another. Aim is more hasty and the recoil moves the weapon with each shot, reducing the accuracy.

Just for example.

Thanks. I much prefer quoted rules.


As do I.

I also prefer people be careful before they claim "x isn't in the rules," because it very often IS, just not where they were looking at that particular time.

_________________
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)

"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell

Check out my Author Page on Amazon!


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:15 pm
  

User avatar
Megaversal® Ambassador

Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:25 pm
Posts: 1648
Location: Reno, Nevada
Killer Cyborg wrote:
As do I.

I also prefer people be careful before they claim "x isn't in the rules," because it very often IS, just not where they were looking at that particular time.

You really ought to read my initial post. I specifically state the source that I was looking at and that I did not know what source the OP was referencing. Your attitude is unjustified. Had you offered a cited rule this conversation would have been far more cordial and far shorter. Instead you attack and incite argument. Your behavior is not conducive to a healthy forum environment.

_________________
Contact me if you're looking for games in Reno, Nevada.
Resources


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:58 pm
  

User avatar
Priest

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
Posts: 28366
Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
Bill wrote:
Killer Cyborg wrote:
As do I.

I also prefer people be careful before they claim "x isn't in the rules," because it very often IS, just not where they were looking at that particular time.

You really ought to read my initial post. I specifically state the source that I was looking at and that I did not know what source the OP was referencing. Your attitude is unjustified. Had you offered a cited rule this conversation would have been far more cordial and far shorter. Instead you attack and incite argument. Your behavior is not conducive to a healthy forum environment.


If you want to discuss my attitude, or your own, then we should probably do that via PMs.
That kind of discussion is generally considered "addressing the poster, not the post," and is the kind of thing that mods tend to crack down on.

_________________
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)

"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell

Check out my Author Page on Amazon!


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:22 am
  

User avatar
Supreme Being

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 1:01 am
Posts: 8554
Location: Unreality
Comment: Being a moderator doesn't mean I speak for Palladium Books. It just makes me the lifeguard at their pool.
Yes it is.


Locked for review.

_________________
Official Hero of the Megaverse

Dead Boy wrote:
All hail Jefffar... King of the Mods

Co-Holder with Ice Dragon of the "Lando Calrissian" award for Smooth. - Novastar

Palladium Forums of the Megaverse Rules

If you need to contact Palladium Books for any reason, click here.


          Top  
 
 
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group