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Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:55 am
  

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Knight

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Comment: "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."
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So I have a player who has a 51 SNPS. I know the rule is that he can throw his max carry weight of 2550 lbs a max of 51 feet. The Chart in PFRPG2E p.17 also states that objects up to 100 lbs can be thrown a max of 100'+1'/PS point. So he could only throw a 100 Lb object up to 151 feet. Which is pretty far but not at all what I think it should be considering the force required to throw a 2550 lb object 51.

I could get into the math of this and such, but its pretty obvious that the 100 lbs max distance of 151 feet doesn't make much sense.

Also by the lack of rules governing weights over 100 but less than your max it seems that once that 100 lbs threshold is passed you revert back to the 1ft/point of PS which means at 101lbs you can only throw it 51 feet when you can throw 1 lb less 3 times as far and you can throw 25 times as much weight that same 51 feet. It really makes no sense.

Is there a rule I'm overlooking or one in another book that makes more sense of this?

_________________
"We live in a world where people use severed plant genitals to express affection.
Rifts is really not much weirder than that." ~~Killer Cyborg

"If we let technical problems scare us away from doing anything, humanity would still be in the trees flinging poo at each other."~~Killer Cyborg

"Everything that breeds is a threat."~~Killer Cyborg


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:20 am
  

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Thinyser wrote:
So I have a player who has a 51 SNPS. I know the rule is that he can throw his max carry weight of 2550 lbs a max of 51 feet. The Chart in PFRPG2E p.17 also states that objects up to 100 lbs can be thrown a max of 100'+1'/PS point. So he could only throw a 100 Lb object up to 151 feet. Which is pretty far but not at all what I think it should be considering the force required to throw a 2550 lb object 51.

I could get into the math of this and such, but its pretty obvious that the 100 lbs max distance of 151 feet doesn't make much sense.

Also by the lack of rules governing weights over 100 but less than your max it seems that once that 100 lbs threshold is passed you revert back to the 1ft/point of PS which means at 101lbs you can only throw it 51 feet when you can throw 1 lb less 3 times as far and you can throw 25 times as much weight that same 51 feet. It really makes no sense.

Is there a rule I'm overlooking or one in another book that makes more sense of this?


Probably not.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:16 am
  

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Knight

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Comment: "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."
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Killer Cyborg wrote:
Thinyser wrote:
So I have a player who has a 51 SNPS. I know the rule is that he can throw his max carry weight of 2550 lbs a max of 51 feet. The Chart in PFRPG2E p.17 also states that objects up to 100 lbs can be thrown a max of 100'+1'/PS point. So he could only throw a 100 Lb object up to 151 feet. Which is pretty far but not at all what I think it should be considering the force required to throw a 2550 lb object 51.

I could get into the math of this and such, but its pretty obvious that the 100 lbs max distance of 151 feet doesn't make much sense.

Also by the lack of rules governing weights over 100 but less than your max it seems that once that 100 lbs threshold is passed you revert back to the 1ft/point of PS which means at 101lbs you can only throw it 51 feet when you can throw 1 lb less 3 times as far and you can throw 25 times as much weight that same 51 feet. It really makes no sense.

Is there a rule I'm overlooking or one in another book that makes more sense of this?


Probably not.

Sadly I think you are correct.
With that most likely being the case I am also open to hearing house rules. I will likely do the math working backwards from the max 2550lbs out to 51 and say for every 1/2 reduction of weight you double the distance and cap it at 500 feet. So for this character it would go like this.
Weight:Distance
2550: 51
1275 : 102
637.5: 204
318.75: 408
159.375: 500
79.6875: 500
And if the weight falls between listed weights you guestimate it as best you can so an 1800 lb object would be about 80 feet since its about half way between the max and half the max so the distance would fall about halfway between these as well. Capping it at 500 feet simply because as you get down to lower weights you simply cannot move your arm at ballistic speeds so the 159lbs going 816 feet and 79 lbs going 1632 feet gets silly. Though a manhole cover discus style throw out to 2000' has a certain appeal to it. :lol:

_________________
"We live in a world where people use severed plant genitals to express affection.
Rifts is really not much weirder than that." ~~Killer Cyborg

"If we let technical problems scare us away from doing anything, humanity would still be in the trees flinging poo at each other."~~Killer Cyborg

"Everything that breeds is a threat."~~Killer Cyborg


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:28 am
  

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Priest

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Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
Thinyser wrote:
Though a manhole cover discus style throw out to 2000' has a certain appeal to it. :lol:


Yes, it does! :D

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Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:39 am
  

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Comment: The silent thief of Rozrehxeson.
I haven't been happy with this either, and it's come up a few times in my Heroes Unlimited game. Palladium seems to think that you're going to throw something either moderately heavy, or as heavy as you can lift, and never lift and throw anything in-between. Which is bogus. I like the idea of scaling up the throwing range based on the maximum throw range.

Here's the throwing rules that I extracted and extrapolated from the Heroes Unlimited Game Master's Guide, pages 54 & 55:

Normal Throwing

A character can not throw more than he can carry. When a throwing range is provided, add 1 foot for every P.S. attribute point. When a throwing range is not provided for an object, use these guidelines below:

Normal and Strong P.S.: up to a 1 lb object can be thrown 50 feet, + 1 foot per P.S. point. Heavier objects (up to the maximum carry weight limit) can be thrown 2 feet per every 3 P.S. points (0.4 inches per P.S., plus 1 foot per P.S.).

Extraordinary P.S.: Up to a 1 lb object can be thrown 200 feet. Up to a 10 lb object can be thrown 100 feet. Up to a 100 lb object can be thrown 50 feet. Up to a 200 lb object can be thrown 10 feet. All these distances are increased by 1 foot per P.S. point. Heavier objects (up to the maximum carry weight limit) can be thrown 4 feet per every 3 P.S. points (4 inches per P.S., plus 1 foot per P.S.).

Superhuman P.S.: Up to a 1 lb object can be thrown 200 feet. Up to a 10 lb object can be thrown 100 feet. Up to a 100 lb object can be thrown 50 feet. Up to a 200 lb object can be thrown 10 feet. All these distances are increased by 1 foot per P.S. point. Heavier objects (up to the maximum carry weight limit) can be thrown 5 feet per every 3 P.S. points (8 inches per P.S., plus 1 foot per P.S.).

Supernatural P.S: Up to a 1 lb object can be thrown 300 feet. Up to a 10 lb object can be thrown 200 feet. Up to a 100 lb object can be thrown 100 feet. Up to a 200 lb object can be thrown 30 feet. All these distances are increased by 1 foot per P.S. point. Heavier objects (up to the maximum carry weight limit) can be thrown 6 feet per every 3 P.S. points (12 inches/1 foot per P.S., plus 1 foot per P.S.).

Damage from Heavy Objects: 1D6 + 1D6 points per every 33 pounds (3D6 points per every 100 lbs), plus P.S. damage bonus. So a 200 pound (90 kg) item will inflict 7D6 points of damage! A 2,000 lb (1 ton) object will inflict 7D6x10!

_________________
Zerebus: "I like MDC. MDC is a hundred times better than SDC."

kiralon: "...the best way to kill an old one is to crash a moon into it."

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Temporal Wizard O.C.C. update 0.8 | New Temporal Magic
Rifts random encounters | New Elemental Magic | Lore: Superhuman

OK, Boomer.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:13 am
  

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Knight

Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2004 7:58 pm
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Location: Sioux Falls SD
Comment: "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."
~George Carlin
Glistam wrote:
I haven't been happy with this either, and it's come up a few times in my Heroes Unlimited game. Palladium seems to think that you're going to throw something either moderately heavy, or as heavy as you can lift, and never lift and throw anything in-between. Which is bogus. I like the idea of scaling up the throwing range based on the maximum throw range.

Here's the throwing rules that I extracted and extrapolated from the Heroes Unlimited Game Master's Guide, pages 54 & 55:

Normal Throwing

A character can not throw more than he can carry. When a throwing range is provided, add 1 foot for every P.S. attribute point. When a throwing range is not provided for an object, use these guidelines below:

Normal and Strong P.S.: up to a 1 lb object can be thrown 50 feet, + 1 foot per P.S. point. Heavier objects (up to the maximum carry weight limit) can be thrown 2 feet per every 3 P.S. points (0.4 inches per P.S., plus 1 foot per P.S.).

Extraordinary P.S.: Up to a 1 lb object can be thrown 200 feet. Up to a 10 lb object can be thrown 100 feet. Up to a 100 lb object can be thrown 50 feet. Up to a 200 lb object can be thrown 10 feet. All these distances are increased by 1 foot per P.S. point. Heavier objects (up to the maximum carry weight limit) can be thrown 4 feet per every 3 P.S. points (4 inches per P.S., plus 1 foot per P.S.).

Superhuman P.S.: Up to a 1 lb object can be thrown 200 feet. Up to a 10 lb object can be thrown 100 feet. Up to a 100 lb object can be thrown 50 feet. Up to a 200 lb object can be thrown 10 feet. All these distances are increased by 1 foot per P.S. point. Heavier objects (up to the maximum carry weight limit) can be thrown 5 feet per every 3 P.S. points (8 inches per P.S., plus 1 foot per P.S.).

Supernatural P.S: Up to a 1 lb object can be thrown 300 feet. Up to a 10 lb object can be thrown 200 feet. Up to a 100 lb object can be thrown 100 feet. Up to a 200 lb object can be thrown 30 feet. All these distances are increased by 1 foot per P.S. point. Heavier objects (up to the maximum carry weight limit) can be thrown 6 feet per every 3 P.S. points (12 inches/1 foot per P.S., plus 1 foot per P.S.).

Damage from Heavy Objects: 1D6 + 1D6 points per every 33 pounds (3D6 points per every 100 lbs), plus P.S. damage bonus. So a 200 pound (90 kg) item will inflict 7D6 points of damage! A 2,000 lb (1 ton) object will inflict 7D6x10!

Thanks for sharing. I noticed 2 things here. First it still does not adequately address items that are Very heavy but not anywhere near the max capacity of the thrower. Example I made a Eugenic that has SNPS 95 who by HU rules can carry 300x that or 28,500 lbs and toss it 95 feet But can also only hurl 2000 lbs (or 201 lbs) that same distance. Also the extra bonus of 30' for objects between 101-200 lbs is piddly.

Second, the math for the damage on 1 ton is wrong. It should be 1d6+6d6x10 not 7d6x10 since that first 1d6 is the "base damage" and the added d6's are dependent on the weight. Not that it makes a big difference really when you average the rolls out but if that d6 rolls a 6 its a difference of 54 points of damage. Ramp that up however and you get 7d6x100 at 20,000 when it should be 1d6+6d6x100 now that 1 six sider which should be accounting for only 1-6 damage is now accounting for 100-600 damage so could be off by as much as 594 damage.

_________________
"We live in a world where people use severed plant genitals to express affection.
Rifts is really not much weirder than that." ~~Killer Cyborg

"If we let technical problems scare us away from doing anything, humanity would still be in the trees flinging poo at each other."~~Killer Cyborg

"Everything that breeds is a threat."~~Killer Cyborg


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:24 am
  

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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:09 pm
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Location: Plymouth, CT
Comment: The silent thief of Rozrehxeson.
Ah, I see what you're talking about there. Good catch!

28,500 lbs out to 95 feet... So then should they be able to throw 2,850 lbs 950 feet? 285 lbs 9,500 feet (one and three-quarters miles). In my gut I feel like that should be reasonable but then I keep scaling down... 28½ lbs can be thrown 17½ miles? 2½ lbs can be thrown 179 miles?

Like, I know Superman could throw things crazy far, but Palladium can't even approach that level of power, and this feels like it might be getting close to that.

Hmm.. This gives me an idea to think about.

_________________
Zerebus: "I like MDC. MDC is a hundred times better than SDC."

kiralon: "...the best way to kill an old one is to crash a moon into it."

Image

Temporal Wizard O.C.C. update 0.8 | New Temporal Magic
Rifts random encounters | New Elemental Magic | Lore: Superhuman

OK, Boomer.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:52 am
  

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Knight

Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2004 7:58 pm
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Location: Sioux Falls SD
Comment: "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."
~George Carlin
Glistam wrote:
Ah, I see what you're talking about there. Good catch!

28,500 lbs out to 95 feet... So then should they be able to throw 2,850 lbs 950 feet? 285 lbs 9,500 feet (one and three-quarters miles). In my gut I feel like that should be reasonable but then I keep scaling down... 28½ lbs can be thrown 17½ miles? 2½ lbs can be thrown 179 miles?

Like, I know Superman could throw things crazy far, but Palladium can't even approach that level of power, and this feels like it might be getting close to that.

Hmm.. This gives me an idea to think about.
That's why I suggested capping the light weights at 500 feet.

In the right campaign I might make exceptions on exceptionally aerodynamic items and IF the character was able to put the correct spin on them (like he might be able to throw a artillery shell like a quarterback can spiral a football) allowing them to be thrown at the full scaled distance, though accuracy would be horrible. So I would probably let a character practice throwing said artillery shells to perfect his spiral out to several miles but where it actually lands might be hundreds of feet off his intended target simply because he cannot be as accurate and precise as an actual howitzer.

_________________
"We live in a world where people use severed plant genitals to express affection.
Rifts is really not much weirder than that." ~~Killer Cyborg

"If we let technical problems scare us away from doing anything, humanity would still be in the trees flinging poo at each other."~~Killer Cyborg

"Everything that breeds is a threat."~~Killer Cyborg


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:24 pm
  

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Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:42 am
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Location: Perrysburg, Oh
Comment: I have been gaming since 1977 and GMing since 1986.
If its an RPG or has minis, Its here somewhere.
You can also look at Heroes Unlimited GMG, it has rules for "Super' combat that includes throwing
rules for normal, extraordinary, super human and super natural.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:34 pm
  

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Knight

Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2004 7:58 pm
Posts: 4119
Location: Sioux Falls SD
Comment: "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."
~George Carlin
JimmyB wrote:
You can also look at Heroes Unlimited GMG, it has rules for "Super' combat that includes throwing
rules for normal, extraordinary, super human and super natural.
Thanks, I had. Its still not realistic at all. They pretty much use the exact same methods which make no sense.

_________________
"We live in a world where people use severed plant genitals to express affection.
Rifts is really not much weirder than that." ~~Killer Cyborg

"If we let technical problems scare us away from doing anything, humanity would still be in the trees flinging poo at each other."~~Killer Cyborg

"Everything that breeds is a threat."~~Killer Cyborg


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Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:35 am
  

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Comment: The silent thief of Rozrehxeson.
I don't like the idea of capping the distance at a seemingly arbitrary 500 feet. I'd rather just cap how many times the weight is halved and the distance is doubled. Maybe to four "ranges" which happen to be unique per character? For example:

A character with a Supernatural P.S. of 51 can carry up to 15,300 lbs and throw that amount up to 102 feet away.
  • Weight between 7,651 lbs and 15,300 lbs can be thrown up to 102 feet away.
  • Weight between 3,826 lbs and 7,650 lbs can be thrown up to 204 feet away.
  • Weight between 1,913½ lbs and 3,825 lbs can be thrown up to 408 feet away.
  • Weight between "0" lbs and 1,912½ lbs can be thrown up to 816 feet away.

Some more examples:

A character with an Extraordinary P.S. of 28 can carry up to 2,800 lbs and throw that amount up to 37 feet.
  • Weight between 1,401 lbs and 2,800 lbs can be thrown up to 37 feet away.
  • Weight between 701 lbs and 1,400 lbs can be thrown up to 74 feet away.
  • Weight between 351 lbs and 700 lbs can be thrown up to 148 feet away.
  • Weight between "0" lbs and 350 lbs can be thrown up to 296 feet away.

A character with a Superhuman P.S. of 50 can carry up to 10,000 lbs and throw that amount up to 83 feet.
  • Weight between 5,001 lbs and 10,000 lbs can be thrown up to 83 feet away.
  • Weight between 2,501 lbs and 5,000 lbs can be thrown up to 166 feet away.
  • Weight between 1,251 lbs and 2,500 lbs can be thrown up to 332 feet away.
  • Weight between "0" lbs and 1,250 lbs can be thrown up to 664 feet away.

A character with a Supernatural P.S. of 95 can carry up to 28,500 lbs and throw that amount up to 190 feet away.
  • Weight between 14,251 lbs and 28,500 lbs can be thrown up to 190 feet away.
  • Weight between 7,126 lbs and 14,250 lbs can be thrown up to 380 feet away.
  • Weight between 3,563½ lbs and 7,125 lbs can be thrown up to 760 feet away.
  • Weight between "0" lbs and 3,562½ lbs can be thrown up to 1,520 feet away.

A character with a Strong P.S. of 25 can carry up to 500 lbs and throw that amount up to 17 feet away.
  • Weight between 251 lbs and 500 lbs can be thrown up to 17 feet away.
  • Weight between 126 lbs and 250 lbs can be thrown up to 34 feet away.
  • Weight between 63½ lbs and 125 lbs can be thrown up to 68 feet away.
  • Weight between "0" lbs and 62½ lbs can be thrown up to 136 feet away.

A character with a Normal P.S. of 9 can carry up to 90 lbs and throw that amount up to 6 feet away.
  • Weight between 46 lbs and 90 lbs can be thrown up to 6 feet away.
  • Weight between 23½ lbs and 45 lbs can be thrown up to 12 feet away.
  • Weight between 12 lbs and 22½ lbs can be thrown up to 24 feet away.
  • Weight between "0" lbs and 11 lbs can be thrown up to 48 feet away.

What if the range for a given object is listed as greater than the range at which the character can throw that weight? This could go two ways I think: Either go with that range, or rule that the character is so weak they just can't throw it that far. In the second case, trying to go past their maximum throwing distance could incur a penalty to strike.

Conversely, a strong character may have a maximum throwing range that is greater than the listed range for an object. Similarly to above, either the character's throwing range could be considered to supersede the listed range, or the strike roll could have a penalty applied because the character is throwing the object farther than it's designed accurately for.

_________________
Zerebus: "I like MDC. MDC is a hundred times better than SDC."

kiralon: "...the best way to kill an old one is to crash a moon into it."

Image

Temporal Wizard O.C.C. update 0.8 | New Temporal Magic
Rifts random encounters | New Elemental Magic | Lore: Superhuman

OK, Boomer.


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