Elves and Dwarves in Rifts World (Elf Dwarf)

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Dinne
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Elves and Dwarves in Rifts World (Elf Dwarf)

Unread post by Dinne »

I put elf and dwarf in the title to assist with searching for this topic for later uses.

I am coming across an issue with players in my Rifts World campaign. I wanted the characters to feel free to use a desired R.C.C. I have run across to issues with this, and one only being a slight problem.

#1 Issue/Question:I have a player that wanted to make a Techno-Wizard Dwarf(Conversion Book 1). I was just curious about the community input on this idea. I think that it's perfectly fine. As long as the player understands that they are aberrant to most elves and ALL dwarves, this idea is acceptable in my book.

#2 Issue/ Question:Using R.C.C. and/or O.C.C.'s from phase world and other space dimensions. I have a player who has setup a Star Elf R.C.C. as a Ley Line Walker from the Anvil Galaxy book. I personally believe that ANYTHING from the dimension books is basically off limits for a Rifts World campaign. I am reserving the right to nerf hammer this character. I would really appreciate some input on what you think I should nerf after the fact of making a character and just the idea of adding something like this, phase world material, into a campaign that will be geared toward rift's world... not mdc space aliens.

As always I am genuinely great for any input you guys give. :)
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Re: Elves and Dwarves in Rifts World (Elf Dwarf)

Unread post by Dinne »

Thought I should ask this..

#3 Issue/Question: Asgardian High Elves and Asgardian Dwarves. These are in a conversion pantheons book, but they seem to be unbalancing for a Rifts World campaign. I was hoping for some input relating to nerf hammer and thoughts similar to what was asking about the phase world material in previous post. :)

Thanks a million

ryan.
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Re: Elves and Dwarves in Rifts World (Elf Dwarf)

Unread post by Marrowlight »

Maybe a little more background on what your campaign is like, so we can better advise you? I'm guessing most of the other players and setting focus on SDC races and lower MDC gear and monsters?
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Dinne
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Re: Elves and Dwarves in Rifts World (Elf Dwarf)

Unread post by Dinne »

First, Thank you for your response.

The setting of the campaign is in West Lone Star, East of the Bend. It's in between the bend and the CS 'claimed' territory. So there are supernatural creatures that can come out of the Bend, the vast expanse of empty space and desert for bandits, and the (I believe) Pecos river for transport and aquatics. I already have some towns/cities and what not around the area setup. There should be plenty of magic, tech, and w/e in the area available.

I usually base the character selection around humans as the Null or Default race. As I said before I strive to let the players be diverse. As a general rule though, I believe dimension books (and the Asgardian races) are out of place on Rifts Earth and would like your input. I hope this helps clarify the setting. :)
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Re: Elves and Dwarves in Rifts World (Elf Dwarf)

Unread post by Prysus »

Dinne wrote:I put elf and dwarf in the title to assist with searching for this topic for later uses.

I am coming across an issue with players in my Rifts World campaign. I wanted the characters to feel free to use a desired R.C.C. I have run across to issues with this, and one only being a slight problem.

Greetings and Salutations. First, I don't really run or play Rifts, so take that into consideration. However I have been on these boards a long time (even checking out the Rifts forum) and I do own all the books (even Rifts), so I'm not talking blindly either. Anwyays ... onto the advice section of this post ...

Yeah, running into problems when you leave the door open is probably going to happen. With a setting such as Rifts, usually you need to figure out what kind of game/power level you want to run, and then set restrictions accordingly. While it may be possible to run a successful game with a open door policy, it's definitely tricky and not something I'd recommend for a new G.M. (which I believe you said you were in a different thread).

Sometimes it's hard for a new G.M. to say no to players, it's not a bad thing. I mean, I know it's not easy or always the most fun, but it can be a necessary evil. Don't feel bad about it. While you want players to have options, you also need to be able to stay in your own comfort zone as well. I'd suggest setting restrictions, at least until you have more experience and have a better idea what you can and can't handle.

Dinne wrote:#1 Issue/Question:I have a player that wanted to make a Techno-Wizard Dwarf(Conversion Book 1). I was just curious about the community input on this idea. I think that it's perfectly fine. As long as the player understands that they are aberrant to most elves and ALL dwarves, this idea is acceptable in my book.

Eeeehhhhh ... originally, dwarves were supposed to be against magic. However, at this point, it's really more just dwarves specifically from the Palladium Fantasy world/setting. Dwarves from pretty much ANYWHERE else can do so, without real problem. So unless the dwarf was born on the Palladium World and rifted here, probably not that big of a deal anymore.

In Rifts, they've moved away from the dwarves can't use magic thing (Conversion Book One discusses dwarves from Palladium Fantasy). This can be seen with things such as the Asgardian Dwarves (who can use Rune Magic, as well other other spell casters), Nuhr Dwarves (originally mentioned in I believe Rifts Underseas, but finally stated in D-Bees of North America), and the Dwarven Guildmasters (from Anvil Galaxy, along with the Star Elves) all can use magic, with no special restrictions. While they tend to add in some note about how thy still (typically) avoid it, they also say how they can and do (5% of them is the figure in one "rare" case listed, though not sure 5% is really that rare anymore, even if still in the minority). So yes, while the ones in the Conversion Book One mentions they won't, I can't see anyone in Rifts giving it a second look.

First, very few will know the reason why Dwarves from Palladium Fantasy gave up magic (war between Elves and Dwarves over 10,000 years ago with lots of badness). Second, even if they did, there are enough other magic using dwarves on the world to not make it so odd anymore. So if this was for Palladium Fantasy I'd say "**** no!" In Rifts? You get a shrug and, "Sure ... why not."

Dinne wrote:#2 Issue/ Question:Using R.C.C. and/or O.C.C.'s from phase world and other space dimensions. I have a player who has setup a Star Elf R.C.C. as a Ley Line Walker from the Anvil Galaxy book. I personally believe that ANYTHING from the dimension books is basically off limits for a Rifts World campaign. I am reserving the right to nerf hammer this character. I would really appreciate some input on what you think I should nerf after the fact of making a character and just the idea of adding something like this, phase world material, into a campaign that will be geared toward rift's world... not mdc space aliens.

Well, it would probably be hard to reach Rifts Earth from space. However, with rift activity that can go anywhere (across space and/or dimensions), it's plausable to have just about anything. Really what you have to ask yourself is how the power level works for you.

If it's the power level you're concerned with, and the player just likes the flavor of space elves (and not worried about the added power), then a good compromise might be to just take the stats for the Elves from Conversion Book One, and change the flavor text to match the Star Elves. This helps keep the flavor while maintaining a desired power level. Similarly, if it's the power level the character wants and the flavor text that bothers you, you can still just swap them out.

If there's a clash then you just have to make a decision, for better or worse.

Dinne wrote:#3 Issue/Question: Asgardian High Elves and Asgardian Dwarves. These are in a conversion pantheons book, but they seem to be unbalancing for a Rifts World campaign. I was hoping for some input relating to nerf hammer and thoughts similar to what was asking about the phase world material in previous post. :)

See my response above.

Hope that helps. Not sure if it really did, but ... well, I think what it really comes down to is that you may have to set some restrictions, at least until you have more experience. Or, you know, you could just let them take whatever and learn through trial by fire (not generally recommended).

Anyways, that's all for now. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys for now.
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Re: Elves and Dwarves in Rifts World (Elf Dwarf)

Unread post by Zamion138 »

Id only restrict a normal dwarf from being a caster if first generation from palladium and look down apon by the 1st gens if they are 2nd generation......currently in a PbP game im a dwarven mystic knight. My grandfather wont talk to me anymore and shuns me my mom and dad think it was a horrible idea, and my sister also became a caster......gotta do the oppisite of what your folks wont you know....
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Re: Elves and Dwarves in Rifts World (Elf Dwarf)

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

1) Possible, yes. However, the char will be hunted if other dwarves find out before he is a uber powerful mage like the dwarf magic user that is a part of the United Warlock Worlds. (RDB #3).

2) So long as when you only use Race/Class combos, it will be fine so long as you allow it.
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I would avoid "Nerfing" anything if you can help it. Equipment is fair game for not surviving the transfer between dimensions. :twisted:

3) Remember that the minion races you mentioned are not from a High tech society, so would be at a disadvantage when plopped in a high tech society. More likely to be arrested for murder when they kill someone.
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Re: Elves and Dwarves in Rifts World (Elf Dwarf)

Unread post by Bill »

I'd allow both ideas. There's no canon statement on how long dwarves have lived on Rifts earth, but they do exist there. Which in my opinion justifies a rogue technowizard dwarf if not an entire settlement of technowizard dwarves from an as yet unnamed dimension.

I'd definitely take a close look at the star-elf as its powers relate to the rest of the group. As long as it's not going to totally upstage or make somebody else redundant, I wouldn't nerf it. That said, I generally agree with you regarding the dimension books. Some of the stuff in them is completely out of scale with the main Rifts series.
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Re: Elves and Dwarves in Rifts World (Elf Dwarf)

Unread post by Dinne »

Thank you everyone for you input!!

I think that I'm going to do as drew kitty recommended and kill some items when they cross over. I feel like this will cause them to catch up. I assume by that time everyone should be on a similar level with mdc armor and what not.

I like the dwarf ideas! thanks! Being hunted for being a renegade dwarf sounds great!
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Re: Elves and Dwarves in Rifts World (Elf Dwarf)

Unread post by Zamion138 »

Dinne wrote:Thank you everyone for you input!!

I think that I'm going to do as drew kitty recommended and kill some items when they cross over. I feel like this will cause them to catch up. I assume by that time everyone should be on a similar level with mdc armor and what not.

I like the dwarf ideas! thanks! Being hunted for being a renegade dwarf sounds great!

Not to ruin your game and disregard my opion for you own story line but only palladium fantasy dwarves care about the no magic thing.
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Re: Elves and Dwarves in Rifts World (Elf Dwarf)

Unread post by The Dark Elf »

I am against nerfing characters classes if possible. Nerf a star elf - just play and elf! As youre NOT playing a star elf (cos u nerfed it, its not the same RCC).
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Re: Elves and Dwarves in Rifts World (Elf Dwarf)

Unread post by Dinne »

I didn't disregard your post Zamion.. I just didn't give notice to everyone, but I believe your input would be relative to a family life type of thing. I think that your input still fits.

@The Dark Elf I think that if I allow everyone to catch up with gear and such and just basically set the star elf back on gear... then in later levels it won't really matter since dependencies will go from char life and/or abilities to gear and magic. IMHO.
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Re: Elves and Dwarves in Rifts World (Elf Dwarf)

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@Zamion128 Zamion I love and respect you as I do all of Ymir's children.
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Re: Elves and Dwarves in Rifts World (Elf Dwarf)

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Now i gotta look up Ymir hahaha
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Re: Elves and Dwarves in Rifts World (Elf Dwarf)

Unread post by Nightmask »

The Dark Elf wrote:I am against nerfing characters classes if possible. Nerf a star elf - just play and elf! As youre NOT playing a star elf (cos u nerfed it, its not the same RCC).


I'd have to agree with this, you aren't playing a particular character or race if it's not possessed of the abilities said character or race is supposed to have.
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Re: Elves and Dwarves in Rifts World (Elf Dwarf)

Unread post by The Dark Elf »

Dinne wrote:I didn't disregard your post Zamion.. I just didn't give notice to everyone, but I believe your input would be relative to a family life type of thing. I think that your input still fits.

@The Dark Elf I think that if I allow everyone to catch up with gear and such and just basically set the star elf back on gear... then in later levels it won't really matter since dependencies will go from char life and/or abilities to gear and magic. IMHO.

Up to you mate! Whatever you feel is fun is the right choice!
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Re: Elves and Dwarves in Rifts World (Elf Dwarf)

Unread post by random_username »

Check out Part One of the following link; possibly starting with COMMON INDIVIDUAL PLAYER STATS.

http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=129640

A quick power scale which you could then utilize to better define the starting player character creation limits.
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Re: Elves and Dwarves in Rifts World (Elf Dwarf)

Unread post by Devjannz »

As a GM, I have told players that they can play anything from any Palladium game in RIFTS, but they need to have a good back story for why that character is on Rifts Earth and I need to approve it. The better the back story, the more likely I am to allow characters that are out of the norm.

I had a player who wanted to play Bounty Hunter who was a Godling (not Demi-God) and he came up with an elaborate back story about how the character did not know he was a Godling because he was found a an infant and raised in Lazlo and just thought that he special abilities were some kind of mutation or something. I liked it because it allowed me to work things into the game that dealt with his background.
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Re: Elves and Dwarves in Rifts World (Elf Dwarf)

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Better late than never?
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Re: Elves and Dwarves in Rifts World (Elf Dwarf)

Unread post by Alrik Vas »

Clearly defined ideas are necessary when beginning a campaign. State the books that races and classes are legal from, then tell them what is outlawed for the game.

There are many reasons aside "mechanically unbalancing" to ban certain things. Arter quip, if some powerhouse shows up and they have dangerous, supernatural abilities, no one is going to see them as friendly. Not the bandits, not random beasts, not the CS.

One of the ways sdc creatures survive in rifts is that they aren't always seen as a threat.
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Re: Elves and Dwarves in Rifts World (Elf Dwarf)

Unread post by say652 »

pantheons book. Asgardian dwarf. not to mention the knowledge to create RUNE weapons. jussayin.
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Re: Elves and Dwarves in Rifts World (Elf Dwarf)

Unread post by MADMANMIKE »

When I first started GMing (before RIFTS came out in 1990), I allowed anything, but after the Gnome Were-Bear trounced the Ogre Invasion by himself, I decided to rein things in. It took many years of frustrating arguments with my players to come back around and realize that in my games, if the characters are super-powerful, all I have to do is make the NPCs match.

Go with what's comfortable for you; remember the number one rule of gaming: Have Fun! This applies to GMs as much as it does the players. The GM isn't there to fight the players, but he's not there to cater to the players every whim either. Role-Playing is an interactive story-telling activity. If the primary story teller is unhappy, the story isn't going to be very good.
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Re: Elves and Dwarves in Rifts World (Elf Dwarf)

Unread post by say652 »

I allow any playable chatacter class. Just remember the stronger you are the tougher the opponent. For purposes of it wasnt my adventure. I didnt post PowerSurge and Desmond fighting nine dragons. My characters durability and well Desmond is a lesser Deity. You get the idea though right. O youre a B.A. huh..... say hello to an army or a squad of things designed to test you.
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