Instant Death From Teleporting Into An Object?

[MaxxSterling]

What does this really mean? 0 h.p./s.d.c. or 0 m.d.c. and then roll for coma/death or the character is completely dead, rip up the sheet or what? Not very clear, not sure if it's spelled out somewhere. I'd be interested in any info/takes you guys have on it...

[Killer Cyborg]

Instant death.

[Nightmask]

I use X-men last stand as a reference on this. When Kitty Pride phased Juggernaut waist deep in the floor it should have killed him but He is Invulnerable so the SDC objects had no effect on his MDC body. So if NightCrawler teleported Juggernaut halfway through a wall it would kill him? No I do not think so. MDC objects do not take damage of any sort from SDC objects.

Those don't go together, Juggernaut is an exception because as you note he has the specific power of Invulnerability so he can no more be injured by being teleported into an object than Nightcrawler can teleport his head off. A non-invulnerable being on the other hand is still going to end up dead being teleported into a solid mass because they've ended up with all this random matter fused throughout their body which would shut down ALL bodily functions. Only a being that wouldn't be harmed by something like that (say an Earth Elemental) would be able to survive something like teleporting into an object. Otherwise being MDC or SDC is irrelevant, teleporting into solid matter is going to kill you.

[Glistam]

The risk of teleporting into an object and instantly dying is stupid and I typically ignore that result on the teleport tables. It isn't applied consistently across various teleport spells or abilities and serves no enjoyable game purpose that I can see.

[Nekira Sudacne]

What does this really mean? 0 h.p./s.d.c. or 0 m.d.c. and then roll for coma/death or the character is completely dead, rip up the sheet or what? Not very clear, not sure if it's spelled out somewhere. I'd be interested in any info/takes you guys have on it...

It means your dead-dead. no rolls.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I use X-men last stand as a reference on this. When Kitty Pride phased Juggernaut waist deep in the floor it should have killed him but He is Invulnerable so the SDC objects had no effect on his MDC body. So if NightCrawler teleported Juggernaut halfway through a wall it would kill him? No I do not think so. MDC objects do not take damage of any sort from SDC objects.

Marvel is not a cannonical source for palladium books.

Not that I don't see the logic in the argument, but just because marvel did it that way dosn't mean palladium does

[drewkitty ~..~]

What does this really mean? 0 h.p./s.d.c. or 0 m.d.c. and then roll for coma/death or the character is completely dead, rip up the sheet or what? Not very clear, not sure if it's spelled out somewhere. I'd be interested in any info/takes you guys have on it...

To put it bluntly, Roll-up a new character.

[Jefffar]

Well if you want to use Marvel for precedent there was an old Excalibur issue where Kitty used her power to force two begins to coexist in the same space and then unphased one.

The result was both of them breaking down on the sub-atomic level in a somewhat violent exothermic reaction (ie an explosion).

[Killer Cyborg]

If you want to put up a damage value = Damage to hit points equal the SDC of object. Teleporting into a paper mache wall causing instant death is a bit much after all.

You've obviously never had paper mache in your blood stream, brain, or spinal fluid.

[Killer Cyborg]

Well if you want to use Marvel for precedent there was an old Excalibur issue where Kitty used her power to force two begins to coexist in the same space and then unphased one.

The result was both of them breaking down on the sub-atomic level in a somewhat violent exothermic reaction (ie an explosion).

Or there's the old Magik issues, where she phases people partially into the floor, then while they're screaming in agony, kills them with her sword.
That's how she killed Nightcrawler, anyway.

[Nightmask]

If you want to put up a damage value = Damage to hit points equal the SDC of object. Teleporting into a paper mache wall causing instant death is a bit much after all.

Not really, you can kill someone by putting an air bubble in their blood stream or a tiny blood clot, let alone having a solid mass merging with your heart and lungs meaning heart can't beat because it and the blood in it is now solid and lungs can't fill with oxygen because every space is filled with paper mache and all the nerves merged with the paper mache can no longer transmit any signals. Oh and of course the brain can't function either for the same reason, as the cells can no longer gain nourishment (even if you're generous enough to say the cells remain intact) and nerves can't communicate. It's why Palladium nerfs the Phasing power so you can't phase an object into someone and leave it there because it would be an instant kill (and evil characters with phasing and alternate versions of Kitty Pryde have easily killed people phasing them into objects).

[Nightmask]

Well if you want to use Marvel for precedent there was an old Excalibur issue where Kitty used her power to force two begins to coexist in the same space and then unphased one.

The result was both of them breaking down on the sub-atomic level in a somewhat violent exothermic reaction (ie an explosion).

Or there's the old Magik issues, where she phases people partially into the floor, then while they're screaming in agony, kills them with her sword.
That's how she killed Nightcrawler, anyway.

Well she HAD been turned into a demon cat by Belasco and was quite ruthless (as in Wolverine ruthless), so she went for using it to 'just' restrain him so she could finish him off herself, otherwise she'd have insta-killed him leaving his chest, head, or entire body in a wall. Something the RPG doesn't nerf like Palladium does and relies on the PC to behave like a hero or the GM to help curtail abuses of the instant kill possibilities.

[Ice Dragon]

What does this really mean? 0 h.p./s.d.c. or 0 m.d.c. and then roll for coma/death or the character is completely dead, rip up the sheet or what? Not very clear, not sure if it's spelled out somewhere. I'd be interested in any info/takes you guys have on it...

Death, zero what ever. Ressurection still possible if you can get the character out of the object.

[Nightmask]

If you want to put up a damage value = Damage to hit points equal the SDC of object. Teleporting into a paper mache wall causing instant death is a bit much after all.

You've obviously never had paper mache in your blood stream, brain, or spinal fluid.

... it wouldn't be in your blood stream. what basically happens is you got a Clean seperation between tissues... with a quantum entanglement not allowing it to be removed. In Marvel when you teleport objects into people it only does damage equal to the rank of material (or endurance). you won't kill Anyone with a Pencil unless it's put in the right place.

Twice material strength (or Strength for living creatures), which is enough to kill the average person since a fairly healthy human has around 20 Health and your average object is Good material strength, which would result in 20 health damage. That pencil is going to hurt considerably (as it should).

[arouetta]

I started to write a post supporting the "instant death" from the standpoint that if you teleport into a paper mache wall, your atoms and molecules and its atoms and molecules get mixed, creating a new substance that is neither blood and tissue nor paper mache, and that would really ruin all your organs and make for a bad day.

But mid-sentence, I reversed my stance. Because the very air you teleport into would have the same issue. All that nitrogen and oxygen and carbon dioxide would mix right in, and the human body really doesn't like that much nitrogen. Plus pollutant particulate matter mixing in with bones, pollen mixing into brain matter, and all sorts of nasties. And since each teleport would more compactly mix these components, weight would increase, body may expand, etc.

So the only way to stay consistent is to say that when you reappear, you push aside the existing atoms. Fine if in air. Fine for most of your body if you appear in liquid and your head is in air. Fine if you appear waist down in solid and someone has a jackhammer. Die of suffocation due to no room for chest to expand if appearing any more encased in a solid object.

[Nightmask]

I started to write a post supporting the "instant death" from the standpoint that if you teleport into a paper mache wall, your atoms and molecules and its atoms and molecules get mixed, creating a new substance that is neither blood and tissue nor paper mache, and that would really ruin all your organs and make for a bad day.

But mid-sentence, I reversed my stance. Because the very air you teleport into would have the same issue. All that nitrogen and oxygen and carbon dioxide would mix right in, and the human body really doesn't like that much nitrogen. Plus pollutant particulate matter mixing in with bones, pollen mixing into brain matter, and all sorts of nasties. And since each teleport would more compactly mix these components, weight would increase, body may expand, etc.

So the only way to stay consistent is to say that when you reappear, you push aside the existing atoms. Fine if in air. Fine for most of your body if you appear in liquid and your head is in air. Fine if you appear waist down in solid and someone has a jackhammer. Die of suffocation due to no room for chest to expand if appearing any more encased in a solid object.

Well it's generally a required secondary power of teleportation that it will displace air and sometimes water since otherwise it'd injure or kill you, but you can't displace solids because, well, they're solid there's no where for those atoms to go other than into you. So teleporting into a solid object will kill you, at a minimum if you were only partially merged and it wasn't something vital like your chest or head you'd still end up instantly trapped and crippled, worse it may kill you anyway if it qualified as an instant limb severing since unless you've some way to stop the bleeding having your leg from the knee down instantly sliced off is death from blood loss in minutes since those are some seriously major arteries in the legs. If you were 'just' bonded on the other hand you've effectively stopped all the blood circulation through that area and may cause blood to pool in that region and kill you anyway.

[arouetta]

I started to write a post supporting the "instant death" from the standpoint that if you teleport into a paper mache wall, your atoms and molecules and its atoms and molecules get mixed, creating a new substance that is neither blood and tissue nor paper mache, and that would really ruin all your organs and make for a bad day.

But mid-sentence, I reversed my stance. Because the very air you teleport into would have the same issue. All that nitrogen and oxygen and carbon dioxide would mix right in, and the human body really doesn't like that much nitrogen. Plus pollutant particulate matter mixing in with bones, pollen mixing into brain matter, and all sorts of nasties. And since each teleport would more compactly mix these components, weight would increase, body may expand, etc.

So the only way to stay consistent is to say that when you reappear, you push aside the existing atoms. Fine if in air. Fine for most of your body if you appear in liquid and your head is in air. Fine if you appear waist down in solid and someone has a jackhammer. Die of suffocation due to no room for chest to expand if appearing any more encased in a solid object.

Well it's generally a required secondary power of teleportation that it will displace air and sometimes water since otherwise it'd injure or kill you, but you can't displace solids because, well, they're solid there's no where for those atoms to go other than into you. So teleporting into a solid object will kill you, at a minimum if you were only partially merged and it wasn't something vital like your chest or head you'd still end up instantly trapped and crippled, worse it may kill you anyway if it qualified as an instant limb severing since unless you've some way to stop the bleeding having your leg from the knee down instantly sliced off is death from blood loss in minutes since those are some seriously major arteries in the legs. If you were 'just' bonded on the other hand you've effectively stopped all the blood circulation through that area and may cause blood to pool in that region and kill you anyway.

Scientifically speaking though, the difference between a gas, a liquid and a solid is how fast the molecules and atoms are zipping around. A solid is slow, but there is still movement. So bringing good old high school chemistry into this, the molecules could get shoved aside as they are movable and do wiggle around. Obvious proof of this is glass - if you look at really old window panes they have a rippled, runny effect because even though they are a solid, the molecules are moving around, responding to gravity.

[drewkitty ~..~]

To be resurrected the char needs a body to be resurrected into. With T-porting into something there isn't anything left of the body.

[Killer Cyborg]

If you want to put up a damage value = Damage to hit points equal the SDC of object. Teleporting into a paper mache wall causing instant death is a bit much after all.

You've obviously never had paper mache in your blood stream, brain, or spinal fluid.

... it wouldn't be in your blood stream. what basically happens is you got a Clean seperation between tissues... with a quantum entanglement not allowing it to be removed. In Marvel when you teleport objects into people it only does damage equal to the rank of material (or endurance). you won't kill Anyone with a Pencil unless it's put in the right place.

This isn't Marvel.

(Also, in Marvel Comics, there has been at least one villain who used his teleportation powers to teleport drugs into his victim's bloodstream directly.
So while you might be accurately describing the Marvel RPG, you're not describing the comic books.)

[say652]

yes your character dies a horrible death as you basicaly lose(chopped off) what ever winds up in the object. i think i saw an anime or cartoon where the "hero" teleported people into stuff killing bunchs of enemies quickly.

[Nightmask]

I started to write a post supporting the "instant death" from the standpoint that if you teleport into a paper mache wall, your atoms and molecules and its atoms and molecules get mixed, creating a new substance that is neither blood and tissue nor paper mache, and that would really ruin all your organs and make for a bad day.

But mid-sentence, I reversed my stance. Because the very air you teleport into would have the same issue. All that nitrogen and oxygen and carbon dioxide would mix right in, and the human body really doesn't like that much nitrogen. Plus pollutant particulate matter mixing in with bones, pollen mixing into brain matter, and all sorts of nasties. And since each teleport would more compactly mix these components, weight would increase, body may expand, etc.

So the only way to stay consistent is to say that when you reappear, you push aside the existing atoms. Fine if in air. Fine for most of your body if you appear in liquid and your head is in air. Fine if you appear waist down in solid and someone has a jackhammer. Die of suffocation due to no room for chest to expand if appearing any more encased in a solid object.

Well it's generally a required secondary power of teleportation that it will displace air and sometimes water since otherwise it'd injure or kill you, but you can't displace solids because, well, they're solid there's no where for those atoms to go other than into you. So teleporting into a solid object will kill you, at a minimum if you were only partially merged and it wasn't something vital like your chest or head you'd still end up instantly trapped and crippled, worse it may kill you anyway if it qualified as an instant limb severing since unless you've some way to stop the bleeding having your leg from the knee down instantly sliced off is death from blood loss in minutes since those are some seriously major arteries in the legs. If you were 'just' bonded on the other hand you've effectively stopped all the blood circulation through that area and may cause blood to pool in that region and kill you anyway.

Scientifically speaking though, the difference between a gas, a liquid and a solid is how fast the molecules and atoms are zipping around. A solid is slow, but there is still movement. So bringing good old high school chemistry into this, the molecules could get shoved aside as they are movable and do wiggle around. Obvious proof of this is glass - if you look at really old window panes they have a rippled, runny effect because even though they are a solid, the molecules are moving around, responding to gravity.

There's a great deal more difference between the three than that, and glass is a poor example as its physical nature due to how its molecules interact is different than many solids. Solids don't generally change as you suggest the rigidness of their molecular bonds prevents it (like with diamonds), and to teleport into something and push all of that out of the way would be infinitely more difficult with a solid than something that by its very nature is fluid or dispersed and can be easily pushed aside. You simply can't go teleporting into something particularly a large object and expect all that rigid and highly bound mass to move because it can't, it has nowhere to go and there's just too much of it to compress.

So teleporting into things tends to get depicted as either you end up merged with the object and dead, bringing about a serious explosion and dead, or somehow displacing the stuff and dead. A Marvel villain for example had a failed teleportation experiement fuse him with the floor of his lab, given it was a super-hero comic he survived by draining the lifeforces of others brought to him by energy duplicates. Graviton meanwhile gained his powers when his teleportation experiment landed him in the middle of someone else's graviton research experiment, but Palladium generally doesn't go for those kinds of empowering events and generally just has teleportation be lethal.

[MaxxSterling]

Thanks for the input, that's how we always played, but I never really bothered to look into it deeply.

Here's the good thing, this character is a god/godling that was metamorphed into a demon. They screwed up on the teleport as a demon, because with the deific power they actually become that thing with all it's powers, that's canon.

SOOOO...... I'm going to say since this didn't happen in hell and they were a demon, that they die, lose their stuff, but they are reborn in Hades, but as themselves since the magic would have cancelled out upon death. They'll then have to go through that process and find their way out of Hades, naked with no armor/weapons/items... I think it's a good way around it in this particular instance, plus it still punishes them overly severely for the bad roll. I really hated to see an awesome 4 year + character die, because of 1 single crappy roll. I always felt this game needed some sort of Karma system or Hero Points or something that allowed a re-roll of certain bad rolls.

[flatline]

This all depends on what mechanism is used when teleporting. I generally allow my players to choose, within reason, the mechanism used by their powers. This allows them to personalize their powers and sometimes has some interesting side effects. For those of you familiar with Champions, this is what they refer to as "special effects".

For instance, if teleporting worked by switching places with whatever was in the volume that you were teleporting into, teleporting into an object would not be fatal immediately, but you'd have nothing to breath and even if your head was exposed, you could not expand your chest to draw air in. Of course, you could simply teleport again before you suffocate.

Another nifty side effect would be that you leave clues of where you teleport every time you teleport. If you teleport into a bakery, perhaps the people you left might notice the fresh baked bread smell of the air that you swapped places with. Or if you teleport into water, they might see a human shaped amount of water appear and then fall to the floor.

Imagine making a door by teleporting into the wall. When you teleport back out, now there's a space for others to crawl through (multiple teleports might make the space more accommodating).

Just food for thought.

--flatline

[MaxxSterling]

Well, I had to get creative and even though things aren't spelled out, it is in the omission and poor editing where we can strive in palladium books. Since the deific power says you actually become a demon, with all their powers/abilities. Then, this is logically the outcome. If they had been in Hades when doing the teleport, then of course they would have "died" no loophole there. But since they were not, there lies the magic. Now, the real question is, can you fight your way out of Hades stark nude... That remains to be seen.

[Nightmask]

I think that "solution" is a non solution. waking up naked in hell means you're dead game over with no hope of escaping unless you contact an angel to swoop you out of hell ala Dean in Supernatural.

Well if things are going that far there's always the option of some other supernatural being contacting the PC group to inform them about the survival of their companion and nudge them towards a rescue. Turn it into another storyarc for the group, and it doesn't have to be an angel doing things, demons will do things like that as well if they think it can help them achieve some task, like tricking the PC group into weakening or eliminating a rival while they are nobly fighting to rescue their friend. If they succeed the demon's in a better position than before, fail and well not like it's lost any useful resources. Plus if they succeed the demon may be able to exploit the group later on as they figure they can trust this mysterious being that helped them and their friend out.

[The Dark Elf]

What does this really mean? 0 h.p./s.d.c. or 0 m.d.c. and then roll for coma/death or the character is completely dead, rip up the sheet or what? Not very clear, not sure if it's spelled out somewhere. I'd be interested in any info/takes you guys have on it...

rip up sheet.

[cornholioprime]

I started to write a post supporting the "instant death" from the standpoint that if you teleport into a paper mache wall, your atoms and molecules and its atoms and molecules get mixed, creating a new substance that is neither blood and tissue nor paper mache, and that would really ruin all your organs and make for a bad day.

But mid-sentence, I reversed my stance. Because the very air you teleport into would have the same issue. All that nitrogen and oxygen and carbon dioxide would mix right in, and the human body really doesn't like that much nitrogen. Plus pollutant particulate matter mixing in with bones, pollen mixing into brain matter, and all sorts of nasties. And since each teleport would more compactly mix these components, weight would increase, body may expand, etc.

So the only way to stay consistent is to say that when you reappear, you push aside the existing atoms. Fine if in air. Fine for most of your body if you appear in liquid and your head is in air. Fine if you appear waist down in solid and someone has a jackhammer. Die of suffocation due to no room for chest to expand if appearing any more encased in a solid object.

The magic and/or pseudo-physics of technological or magical-based teleportation takes care of any problems that a teleporting character might have with air.

It does not provide such protection for the occasional failing roll which occasionally places the teleporter into solid objects.

The magical power/super ability won't be 100% consistent with real-world logic because it is an outside-of-the-game mechanism created by the game authors as an obstacle for players.

[flatline]

The magical power/super ability won't be 100% consistent with real-world logic because it is an outside-of-the-game mechanism created by the game authors as an obstacle for players.

If the rule doesn't represent an in-game mechanism, then throw it out.

If you want create an obstacle for the players, make it make sense within the setting rather than some meta-game skullduggery.

--flatline

[Nightmask]

Given I had someone PM me regarding how they thought it to be an 'Urban Myth' that getting air in your veins can kill, well they're wrong. It's not as likely but air in the circulatory system at any point can kill whether it's the arteries or veins, it's most definitely not an urban myth. The urban myth would be that it can't (and even if there are medical procedures that make use of a small amount of air as a diagnostic tool that doesn't mean it can't kill you, just that as part of controlled medical procedure it's less likely).

[random_username]

Teleporting Something into a target is generally a game-breaking ability that is typically simply eliminated as a variant possibility.

Teleporting (underlying game mechanics): Basically there are inherent safeguards that allow any type of teleportation to occur without immediately obliterating the teleporting being/object.
- Displacing the air/gasses or in some cases even liquid in the target area (easily movable material).
- Not rematerializing in solid objects.
- Not accidentally rematerializing over cliffs, mid-air (without flight/hover/parachute), or other unpleasant circumstance.
- Not causing any carried items or worn gear to be outside the normal safe area covered by teleportation. Meaning teleports the individual safely but doesn't adjust for added dimensions of worn or carried items thus rematerializing them in solid matter, not displacing the air or liquid, etc.

Some of these various teleporting effects have already run this right to the edge of their calculation capabilities leading to possible accidents.

A good comparison for similar inter-dimensional effects are the D-Phase spell (WB3, BoM) allowing beings to phase through matter but if they fail to exit the material before spell expiry they are ejected as a safeguard.

Ultimately Teleporting tends to be one of those 'just have fun using it' abilities. Attempting to turn off the safeguards on an often unstable inter-dimensional effect is "bad"... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyaLZHiJJnE

[say652]

would the power combo of intangibility and teleportation eliminate the intstant death sentence for teleporting into stuff?

[Killer Cyborg]

would the power combo of intangibility and teleportation eliminate the intstant death sentence for teleporting into stuff?

THAT is a good question!

I'd have to say that if you were intangible already when you were teleporting, that you wouldn't suffer instant death for teleporting into an object.
Of course, if you appear deep underground or something, you might run out of air before you can get to the surface... but then again, you might not.
Intangibility would help prevent a lot of potential mishaps, as far as I'm concerned.

[cornholioprime]

The magical power/super ability won't be 100% consistent with real-world logic because it is an outside-of-the-game mechanism created by the game authors as an obstacle for players.

If the rule doesn't represent an in-game mechanism, then throw it out.

If you want create an obstacle for the players, make it make sense within the setting rather than some meta-game skullduggery.

--flatline

The possibility of fatally catastrophic Teleport Failure makes sense both within the game ("be careful with using Magic, because if and when it fails there's absolutely no telling what harm might befall you") and outside of the game ("let's craft this particular spell so that players will think twice before using it, if they ever decide to use it at all.").

On top of that, probably every spell, psionic power, super power, and pseudo-scientific effect or device in a fictional game has some element or other or "meta-game skullduggery" incorporated into it -if for no other reason than to set limits on its usage -so what's your overall point?

[flatline]

]The possibility of fatally catastrophic Teleport Failure makes sense both within the game ("be careful with using Magic, because if and when it fails there's absolutely no telling what harm might befall you") and outside of the game ("let's craft this particular spell so that players will think twice before using it, if they ever decide to use it at all.").

Magic is dangerous if it fails? Not in this system.

Besides Teleport:Superior and Teleport:Lesser, can you name 3 spells that can cause negative effects for the caster when they fail?

There are hundreds of invocations in the BoM and the vast majority aren't risky at all unless you consider a target making a saving throw to be risky.

--flatline

[cornholioprime]

]The possibility of fatally catastrophic Teleport Failure makes sense both within the game ("be careful with using Magic, because if and when it fails there's absolutely no telling what harm might befall you") and outside of the game ("let's craft this particular spell so that players will think twice before using it, if they ever decide to use it at all.").

Magic is dangerous if it fails? Not in this system.

Besides Teleport:Superior and Teleport:Lesser, can you name 3 spells that can cause negative effects for the caster when they fail?

There are hundreds of invocations in the BoM and the vast majority aren't risky at all unless you consider a target making a saving throw to be risky.

--flatline

The exact number of magic spells which are risky, and the number of spells which aren't, isn't the relevant point here.

The point here is that the Authors' decision to engineer a certain amount of risk into the system, however tiny a percentage compared to all the rest, makes both in-game (sense of risk to employ this device/magic spell/psionic ability/super power/etc by the PCs) and out-of-game (let's make the players think twice about using "Awesome X" just any old time they feel like it) sense.

[Looonatic]

Here's a question: Would teleporting into water kill you?

[cornholioprime]

Here's a question: Would teleporting into water kill you?

Only failure on the roll kills you, by teleporting you into and merging you with the matter at the other end of your teleport.

Normally and otherwise, the spell magically 'protects' you from a wide variety of potentially harmful, even fatal effects that could conceivably occur if the molecules in your body were simply moved from one spot to another.

So presuming that you'd already been there before, yes you could potentially teleport into water per the wording of the spell; because you can normally still move about in water.


But by the same token, I would say that you could not deliberately teleport into that same body of water if it were frozen.

[Reagren Wright]

This just happened with my players. Had a greatest rune weapon. Used it to teleport to place
only been once. Failed first time ended up 25 miles in the wrong direction. Tried ginned the
player roles 100. Well done deal.

[Looonatic]

Here's a question: Would teleporting into water kill you?

Only failure on the roll kills you, by teleporting you into and merging you with the matter at the other end of your teleport.

Normally and otherwise, the spell magically 'protects' you from a wide variety of potentially harmful, even fatal effects that could conceivably occur if the molecules in your body were simply moved from one spot to another.

So presuming that you'd already been there before, yes you could potentially teleport into water per the wording of the spell; because you can normally still move about in water.


But by the same token, I would say that you could not deliberately teleport into that same body of water if it were frozen.

Is that because water is a liquid? Does the spell push liquids out of the way? If so, what about glass?

Or is it a matter of density? Are substances below a certain density pushed out of the way? If so, what about mud? Loosely packed soil?

See, this is the problem that I'm having with this spell. It protects you from so much that could and probably should go wrong, that a little thing like a solid object seems trivial by comparison.

[cornholioprime]

Here's a question: Would teleporting into water kill you?

Only failure on the roll kills you, by teleporting you into and merging you with the matter at the other end of your teleport.

Normally and otherwise, the spell magically 'protects' you from a wide variety of potentially harmful, even fatal effects that could conceivably occur if the molecules in your body were simply moved from one spot to another.

So presuming that you'd already been there before, yes you could potentially teleport into water per the wording of the spell; because you can normally still move about in water.


But by the same token, I would say that you could not deliberately teleport into that same body of water if it were frozen.

Is that because water is a liquid? Does the spell push liquids out of the way? If so, what about glass?

Or is it a matter of density? Are substances below a certain density pushed out of the way? If so, what about mud? Loosely packed soil?

See, this is the problem that I'm having with this spell. It protects you from so much that could and probably should go wrong, that a little thing like a solid object seems trivial by comparison.

If and when the spell fails -when it fails -you could potentially be merged into any substance and killed. Whatever safeguards are built into the spell, fail to work in that case.

Otherwise, you're simply teleported to the general area that you indicate, and the spell does the rest; extrapolating how it functions from its wording, chances are that you cannot, in the normal course of events, try to "exploit" the spell by deliberately trying to place yourself (or others) directly into other objects no matter how loosely packed or dense they are.

[mastermesh]

would the power combo of intangibility and teleportation eliminate the intstant death sentence for teleporting into stuff?

I'd say yes, but it'd be a house rule... also it'd depend on if the character was intangible before the teleport...

Magnetism and Intangibility are a nice combo too.

http://www.oocities.org/soho/8006/Wren.html

[Stone Gargoyle]

I play it with the risk of death, generally. Rarely do I make an exception where if they roll the instant kill I allow them to just not go anywhere and have the teleportation fail completely. With the Intangibility issue, I would argue that they cannot work together for molecular reasons. If molecules are not in alignment with the world, how do you move them within that world. That has just been my take on it in the past.

[Akashic Soldier]

The "rules" for merging with objects are in the Walk Through Stone and Walk Through Walls Warlock spell in the book of magic. Peace.