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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:15 pm
  

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I ask this question as I went back a few pages and didnt see a thread on the subject, but I'm not in this forum very often.

Anyway, I've a got player who got pletny of experience at player fighting types and "action oriented people", and now he's trying to rise to the challenge of playing the brains of the outfit after he rolled 19 for his IQ stat (he's a parapsychologist in the BTS game). While I admire his trying to rise to the challenge, he's having a hard time with it.

And while I've offered him some ideas and brought up the more obvious issues of high IQ folks (its hard playing characters smarter than you), but I know its still bugging him. Anyone here got some advice on playing high intelligence characters?

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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:29 pm
  

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mrloucifer wrote:
I ask this question as I went back a few pages and didnt see a thread on the subject, but I'm not in this forum very often.

Anyway, I've a got player who got pletny of experience at player fighting types and "action oriented people", and now he's trying to rise to the challenge of playing the brains of the outfit after he rolled 19 for his IQ stat (he's a parapsychologist in the BTS game). While I admire his trying to rise to the challenge, he's having a hard time with it.

And while I've offered him some ideas and brought up the more obvious issues of high IQ folks (its hard playing characters smarter than you), but I know its still bugging him. Anyone here got some advice on playing high intelligence characters?


Confidence.

When I started RPing back when I was a teenager YEARS ago my friends used to make fun of me being stupid (one of them was the second most intelligent person in the state and the others were just blue collar snobs :lol:). Like your friend if there was a problem they'd give my characters a bit of string and then lock me in the room with something they wanted dead and counted on me to win. For years this is how I developed as a player, learning how to defeat superior combatants and challenges through mastering the art of tactical combat and taking advantage of condition or circumstance. Yet, I was always mocked for being stupid. I just accepted it. Years later after realizing I was successful and most of the people I grew up with still lived with their parents I got tired of being called stupid and so on a dare I took the MENSA test to get an official IQ rating so I could approve I was average and not slow but then, much to my surprise, I got more than a "good result", I qualified for Mensa!

I realized I wasn't as stupid as everyone had always said and that I could do more than just fight and solve puzzles in a game. Plus my old "friends" had to eat humble pie. It was pretty great but I guess my point is, confidence. Tell your player to just believe in himself and embrace his imagination. There is NO REASON he cannot be an action-orientated person who is also a smart character. Tell him to play to his strengths and have confidence in himself.

The other thing you could do is as Game Master give him help. If he is the smartest character in the group and his character is "the brain" you could prepare notes, something small, to pass to the player throughout the adventure that are things he has figured out that the others have not cottoned on to yet. (This would allow him to have Dr. Who-style eureka moments, just don't write his outbursts, just a list of facts and final conclusion and leave the rest to him to improvise). :)

Be careful with this though, less mature groups will see this as a "them-vs.-us" situation.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:12 am
  

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Comment: "So gentlemen, are you prepared to open your minds and travel to worlds hitherto undreamed of?"
I would suggest drip feeding him some important info about the plot/mystery.

He might be able to deduce two or three "potentials" from whatever clues or evidence they have come up with. Giving him a few ideas, one of which may be correct, you havent spilled the beans to him but narrowed down the trail of thought to an average IQ of the player.

I would also use his skills heavily as they are his "abilities".

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Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:03 pm
  

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The Dark Elf wrote:
I would suggest drip feeding him some important info about the plot/mystery.

He might be able to deduce two or three "potentials" from whatever clues or evidence they have come up with. Giving him a few ideas, one of which may be correct, you havent spilled the beans to him but narrowed down the trail of thought to an average IQ of the player.

I would also use his skills heavily as they are his "abilities".
This is similar to how we play it when someone makes a character that is more knowledgeable in various areas than the player. Give them a constant drip of information when pointing out things that would be within their purview. If they are making something, try to squeeze a rough idea out of them and present them with a few detailed ideas that resemble it. If you and the player get a feel for his/her 'style', tell them about things or ideas that may occur to their character.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:59 pm
  

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on a roleplay focus, i'd suggest ot him he pick some movies/TVshows/novels which highly intelligent (but likeable) main characters, and watch a bunch of them to get an idea of how he wants to play the role.
when i made my BTS2 parapsychologist, i decided to borrow mannerisms from Sherlock Holmes for example.. i even worked a love of Arthur Conan Doyle novels into the character's background to help explain some of it.

depending on the player's preferences in entertainment, you could find any number of role models to use, all with different personalities and quirks. the mythbusters, Bill Nye, Mr. Wizard, Carl Sagan, the characters from The Big Bang Theory, etc..

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Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:02 pm
  

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Comment: "So gentlemen, are you prepared to open your minds and travel to worlds hitherto undreamed of?"
glitterboy2098 wrote:
the characters from The Big Bang Theory, etc..


Penny?

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Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:19 pm
  

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The Dark Elf wrote:
glitterboy2098 wrote:
the characters from The Big Bang Theory, etc..


Penny?


she's got a very high inter-personal intelligence, and actually is fairly bright, just not as well educated in the hard science and geek concepts as the guys.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:05 am
  

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I would take notes during game, and look them over w/some out of game free time and treat it like a puzzle. So the info was always fresh in my mind for the next session.

I like Malcolm from Malcolm in the middle he had something like a 168 IQ which I would play as a 17 in Palladium. In one episode he had a conversation w/ a kid who had a 230ish IQ (going by memory) and Malcolm asked what it was like when and idea came to him? The other kid asked Malcolm what his ideas felt like, then Malcolm said something like it was a crackle of energy then an explosion of insight. Then the other kid said, "Think of that as a bee, I my mind is like I have a whole hive in it." One of my favorite scenes hope I did not butcher it to much.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:04 pm
  

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I've never tried it myself, but has anyone allowed a player to "bluff" their way past an intellectual arena when playing characters of higher intelligence? For example, when playing a parapsychologist relating a theory on magic, a player might ad lib some bologna off the top of the head that may be "false" and may possibly make absolutely no sense to the "true brains" of the group that goes something like this:

"While Dr. Lazlo's book, Ruins of Illumination, brought forth a solid foundation on just why the ruins of Anchor Blat were fashioned in the deep jungles of Cadmus rather than the more popular flat lands of Congo, a colleague of his, Austin Nott, purposed a theory that, while at odds with Lazlo, placates a little more smoothly with the mysterious conumdrum that we are facing. I therefore extrapolate we are dealing with the pygmy shrew tribe that was thought instinct until 1920, when Lewis and Clark sailed the ocen blue."

Other players: . . .

Of course, 3/4 of the above is complete malarkey (misspelled and nonsensical, too), but at least an effort was made, right? However, be careful with this approach if you use it, assome of the "smarter" players may lose patience if the "bluffing" isn't done just right.

Another option to consider is give the player in question a little more prep time than the others. Give him a list of books to check out at the library that you might be using in the next couple of sessions or may otherwise help him. If he doesn't like to read, try a few movies (ideally, they ought to be documentaries or otherwise deal with skills or aspects to his character). Maybe he'll actually learn a few things and find out he's not so "stupid" or may otherwise find an interest, too. :)

*The scenes portrayed are not meant to insult anyone; just show a hyperbolic example, perhaps.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:42 pm
  

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I do that at parties with professors. It works okay sometimes <.<

That stuff I've done in games too. I always make sure I'm dealing with people who do not understand my character's field of study, to make it a bit easier. It's much easier in social sciences than hard sciences.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:35 am
  

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Slip the player hints as the story evolves. Let them know more so their character can know more.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:15 pm
  

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thanx for all the advice so far guys... I'm taking notes. :)

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Unread postPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 9:46 pm
  

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Unread postPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 7:11 am
  

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The bonus for high IQ is way too insignificant as written.

Make a house rule that gives a more significant benefit for having high IQ. Something like "2xIQ bonus is applied to each skill at level 1 and then the regular bonus is applied again every time the character levels up"

Smarter characters should also be able to pick up more skills that dumber characters. I don't have a good mechanic to suggest for this, though.

--flatline


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Unread postPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 8:10 pm
  

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Comment: "Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there... wondering, fearing, doubting" - Edgar Allen Poe
flatline wrote:
Smarter characters should also be able to pick up more skills that dumber characters. I don't have a good mechanic to suggest for this, though.


Hey, that's not bad! I can see some potential with this one, some ideas I'm already kicking around for example...

-When the character is first created, they can select more skills if their IQ is over 15, using the ME bonus equivalent of the IQ stat. For example, a character with an IQ of 19 could select two extra skills when creating their character.

-When a character goes up a level and gets to select skills, let them add an extra skill selection, representing their ability to learn and acquire knowledge faster.

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Unread postPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 11:23 pm
  

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mrloucifer wrote:
flatline wrote:
Smarter characters should also be able to pick up more skills that dumber characters. I don't have a good mechanic to suggest for this, though.


Hey, that's not bad! I can see some potential with this one, some ideas I'm already kicking around for example...

-When the character is first created, they can select more skills if their IQ is over 15, using the ME bonus equivalent of the IQ stat. For example, a character with an IQ of 19 could select two extra skills when creating their character.

-When a character goes up a level and gets to select skills, let them add an extra skill selection, representing their ability to learn and acquire knowledge faster.


*shakes his head*

A lot of game systems do it that way but I'd steer clear of it with Palladium. If you have a higher IQ you are better than anyone who is not trained in the field who has a lower IQ than you. Intelligent Quotient is not tied to skill or having a broader range of skills, it is more about having a deeper understanding of things and puzzle solving. Skills are determined by how you live your life and WHAT you learn. If you seem to know more than others it SHOULD be because you have studied more than others or have a larger base, having a higher IQ doesn't allow you to automatic juggle Gym and Advanced Physics at the same time. It just means you'd have a better grasp of both than someone with a lower IQ.

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Unread postPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 1:14 pm
  

D-Bee

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Akashic Soldier wrote:
mrloucifer wrote:
flatline wrote:
Smarter characters should also be able to pick up more skills that dumber characters. I don't have a good mechanic to suggest for this, though.


Hey, that's not bad! I can see some potential with this one, some ideas I'm already kicking around for example...

-When the character is first created, they can select more skills if their IQ is over 15, using the ME bonus equivalent of the IQ stat. For example, a character with an IQ of 19 could select two extra skills when creating their character.

-When a character goes up a level and gets to select skills, let them add an extra skill selection, representing their ability to learn and acquire knowledge faster.


*shakes his head*

A lot of game systems do it that way but I'd steer clear of it with Palladium. If you have a higher IQ you are better than anyone who is not trained in the field who has a lower IQ than you. Intelligent Quotient is not tied to skill or having a broader range of skills, it is more about having a deeper understanding of things and puzzle solving. Skills are determined by how you live your life and WHAT you learn. If you seem to know more than others it SHOULD be because you have studied more than others or have a larger base, having a higher IQ doesn't allow you to automatic juggle Gym and Advanced Physics at the same time. It just means you'd have a better grasp of both than someone with a lower IQ.



Good point. Higher IQ might also represent the ease with which the character picks things up as well though. This could translate to the character having a broader range of knowledge/skills than others. Taking your example, they might rifle through an advanced physics text during gym classes and given their ability to absorb knowledge with ease, walk away retaining a working knowledge of both subjects (not after one class of course, unless we're talking Natural Genius level IQ's here). That may justify the character gettting a few free secondary skills as they level up.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:45 pm
  

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Also something that I haven't seen anyone else mention. Different highly intelligent people use their higher intelligence in different ways. Some try to master their academic skills quicker. Some use their higher IQ to get better at abusing the system. Others use it to build physical skills quicker. Still others use it to perceive things others do not. Then there are some that use higher intelligence to become a better con man. And the final kind I can think of use their higher IQ to rationalize or theorize things other do not even think of, to speak outside of the box if you will, as the eternal philosopher, etc. IQ is, as I understand it, merely a way to measure the quality and speed of taking in information.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:53 am
  

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Vrykolas2k wrote:
It's easy for a smart person to play a dumb person, but the reverse is not true.


Not so sure about this... I don't think it's easy either way.

I do as a GM have a big problem with people using IQ as a dump stat and then playing as if they are normal or above average intelligence. It seems to happen a lot more than I would like.

MA has a mechanic in game to show how it works, ditto with ME. That's the problem with mental stats, players can easily ignore them if they use them as dump stats and RP as if they were not handicapped by a low score.

I would like to see a game in which players use their own mental stats and just roll physical stats for their characters. It would be more realistic, as far as interpersonal interactions, but not sure about skill learning and stuff that is abstracted.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:28 pm
  

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Champion

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Iq 9 just as good as 15 at astrophysics....check.
Iq 9 only 1% behind IQ 16 at advanced math.... check.
Other than no rules for using M.A. in anything but rifters it is the worst stat issue.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:52 pm
  

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Knight

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Akashic Soldier wrote:
*shakes his head*

A lot of game systems do it that way but I'd steer clear of it with Palladium. If you have a higher IQ you are better than anyone who is not trained in the field who has a lower IQ than you. Intelligent Quotient is not tied to skill or having a broader range of skills, it is more about having a deeper understanding of things and puzzle solving. Skills are determined by how you live your life and WHAT you learn. If you seem to know more than others it SHOULD be because you have studied more than others or have a larger base, having a higher IQ doesn't allow you to automatic juggle Gym and Advanced Physics at the same time. It just means you'd have a better grasp of both than someone with a lower IQ.


More intelligent people learn things faster and with less effort. That means that in the same amount of time that a less intelligent person can learn something, a more intelligent person can develop a deeper mastery of it or an equivalent mastery of it with time left over for something else.

Palladium's rules barely acknowledge that there's a difference. Every other game that I can think of handles it better (especially points based systems like GURPS or Heroes).

--flatline

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Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:58 pm
  

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flatline wrote:
Akashic Soldier wrote:
*shakes his head*

A lot of game systems do it that way but I'd steer clear of it with Palladium. If you have a higher IQ you are better than anyone who is not trained in the field who has a lower IQ than you. Intelligent Quotient is not tied to skill or having a broader range of skills, it is more about having a deeper understanding of things and puzzle solving. Skills are determined by how you live your life and WHAT you learn. If you seem to know more than others it SHOULD be because you have studied more than others or have a larger base, having a higher IQ doesn't allow you to automatic juggle Gym and Advanced Physics at the same time. It just means you'd have a better grasp of both than someone with a lower IQ.


More intelligent people learn things faster and with less effort. That means that in the same amount of time that a less intelligent person can learn something, a more intelligent person can develop a deeper mastery of it or an equivalent mastery of it with time left over for something else.

Like say....having a higher percentage?

flatline wrote:
Palladium's rules barely acknowledge that there's a difference. Every other game that I can think of handles it better (especially points based systems like GURPS or Heroes).

--flatline

The 'problem' is that it doesn't penalize you for a low IQ....which means that there is so little functional difference between an IQ of 3 and IQ of 10 and an IQ of 14. When it kicks in you get a bonus to EVERYTHING though....even if it doesn't make sense (Smart people prowl better, and tumble better, and are better sky divers, and better stunt pilots, and.....)
But its more of an issue with trying to define Intelligence in games, than having the 'wrong' modeling of it.

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