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Is an Integrated design useful in Phase World?
Yes, both types 33%  33%  [ 1 ]
Yes, Medium and large ships like the Trinity only 33%  33%  [ 1 ]
Yes, Small types like the Chimaerus only 33%  33%  [ 1 ]
No 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 3
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Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:10 am
  

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I regularly pledge Ryan Wolfe's starship poster Kickstarters and this time is an integrated starship called The Trinity . It is a pair of small cruiser/escort carriers that can dock with a larger cruiser carrier to form a larger ship. He previously did The Chimaerus which is three unique spacecraft that come together to form a larger ship that is more powerful than its component parts.

Question 1 is simple, would ships like this make sense in Phase World? I am not talking about larger ships that carry parasite craft like fighters, shuttles or even gunboats and the like but true integrated ships like these.

Question 2, have you created any integrated ships for Phase World.

My answer Chimaerus yes, Trinity probably not.

The Chimaerus functions just like a primary ship with 2 parasite craft attached. In fact if I ever get to run a Phase World campaign again I think they may start out with this as a player group ship.

Trinity is 3 fully functional FTL starships and I am not sure I see a purpose having them attach together and then detach.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:44 am
  

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Depends on the technologies involved. It might be easier for a larger starship to travel through FTL-space and resist being pulled out of it by mascons in real space, so if smaller ships can be attached to/become effectively a larger vessel, they wouldn't be as susceptible to being yanked around in FTL travel;.

Or, you could treat the integrated ship design like a carrier, with larger sub-ships in place of fighters. The smaller/weaker ships may not be able to travel through FTL as fast as the larger ship, or have the range/endurance of the larger ship, but trade off in being more agile or having a better acceleration/deceleration profile, so having them along for the ride is a good thing.
An integrated ship along these lines might be a military vessel with detachable cargo transports, or. a starliner that breaks up upon arrival to provide service to several different planets in a. system, or afford different views of a sight, depending on passenger class.

The hookup points are the big if, though...how long does it take to securely hook up and how vulnerable are the attachment points? Can they be universally oriented, or do the parasites have to be right- or left-oriented? And how vulnerable is the larger ship/gestalt to damage inflicted on one individual ship in the link?

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:36 am
  

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taalismn wrote:
Depends on the technologies involved. It might be easier for a larger starship to travel through FTL-space and resist being pulled out of it by mascons in real space, so if smaller ships can be attached to/become effectively a larger vessel, they wouldn't be as susceptible to being yanked around in FTL travel;.
...snip

There is also the point that unless all the ships' clocks are synced down to the 23rd decimal (or the nth degree or something), then the fleet/BG/squadron/division will come out of FTL all over the place.
P.S.: yes, most times this is ignored in fiction and games.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:47 pm
  

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Warshield73 wrote:
Trinity is 3 fully functional FTL starships and I am not sure I see a purpose having them attach together and then detach.

this is a common question for such craft, especially in the trek community and the USS Prometheus

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Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:59 pm
  

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The use I can think of for merging is if the power needed to go faster in FTL is notably less with one hull. IE, the power it takes to get one large ship going 7 ly/h is on par with what it takes three medium ships 6 ly/h.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:12 am
  

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
taalismn wrote:
Depends on the technologies involved. It might be easier for a larger starship to travel through FTL-space and resist being pulled out of it by mascons in real space, so if smaller ships can be attached to/become effectively a larger vessel, they wouldn't be as susceptible to being yanked around in FTL travel;.
...snip

There is also the point that unless all the ships' clocks are synced down to the 23rd decimal (or the nth degree or something), then the fleet/BG/squadron/division will come out of FTL all over the place.
P.S.: yes, most times this is ignored in fiction and games.

What I am focused on is the standard Three Galaxies tech described in the books. If people want to give information on their homebrew system as well that works too but they would want to spell out the relevant rules and information.

As for large ships being more resistant the rules as is just put that as a function of local gravity, ship size never comes into it.

As for the spread of ships I have always included that in my rules. I talked about them here on Contra-Gravitronic FTL Drives - Rules and Stats it is my rule #5. However if you have the computer control necessary to fly through space at thousands of times c than you can probably set a course that has your ships coming out fairly close to each other.

The only fiction I know that covers this in any degree is Honor Harrington but that uses a hyper space system not FTL.

taalismn wrote:
Or, you could treat the integrated ship design like a carrier, with larger sub-ships in place of fighters. The smaller/weaker ships may not be able to travel through FTL as fast as the larger ship, or have the range/endurance of the larger ship, but trade off in being more agile or having a better acceleration/deceleration profile, so having them along for the ride is a good thing.
An integrated ship along these lines might be a military vessel with detachable cargo transports, or. a starliner that breaks up upon arrival to provide service to several different planets in a. system, or afford different views of a sight, depending on passenger class.

That is basically The Chimaerus so I largely agree with you. If you treat the costs of FTL drives in the Three Galaxies books as covering all sizes smaller than dreadnoughts than this type of ship only makes sense for small craft as any large ship is so expensive that adding even the fastest FTL drive is insignificant to the cost. But for my rules where FTL is based on mass than it works for all kinds of vessels. I love your idea of the star liner.

taalismn wrote:
The hookup points are the big if, though...how long does it take to securely hook up and how vulnerable are the attachment points? Can they be universally oriented, or do the parasites have to be right- or left-oriented? And how vulnerable is the larger ship/gestalt to damage inflicted on one individual ship in the link?

I think all of these would depend on the design. For both of the ships above the hookups are substantial and for the Chimaerus they are completely covered by the parasites. I think with contra-gravity fields these hookups can carry the load of the ship pretty easily but the Trinity would would be the most vulnerable.

The Chimaerus is very specific, each ship has a place and only that ship in that place. The Trinity however can switch between sides and you could imagine having other types of ships to attach there as well. Both the parasites are carriers similar to the main ship but you could imagine a variant looking vary similar but being a light cruiser or other weapons platforms.

glitterboy2098 wrote:
Warshield73 wrote:
Trinity is 3 fully functional FTL starships and I am not sure I see a purpose having them attach together and then detach.

this is a common question for such craft, especially in the trek community and the USS Prometheus

:mad: :frust: :puke:

Yeah I found most Voyager episodes to be barely watchable but that was one of the worst. I think Spacedock compared it to a bad GI Joe toy.

Omegasgundam wrote:
The use I can think of for merging is if the power needed to go faster in FTL is notably less with one hull. IE, the power it takes to get one large ship going 7 ly/h is on par with what it takes three medium ships 6 ly/h.

We have no rules on FTL to cover this but I could definitely see it but it is almost a Stargate SG-1 kind of system. FTL in that is based on power so regular fusion engines you can pop around the galaxy, drop in a ZPM and no you can go between galaxies in days. This is how I run FTL in Phase World but nothing in the rules about it.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:54 pm
  

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Warshield73 wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
taalismn wrote:
Depends on the technologies involved. It might be easier for a larger starship to travel through FTL-space and resist being pulled out of it by mascons in real space, so if smaller ships can be attached to/become effectively a larger vessel, they wouldn't be as susceptible to being yanked around in FTL travel;.
...snip

There is also the point that unless all the ships' clocks are synced down to the 23rd decimal (or the nth degree or something), then the fleet/BG/squadron/division will come out of FTL all over the place.
P.S.: yes, most times this is ignored in fiction and games.

What I am focused on is the standard Three Galaxies tech described in the books. If people want to give information on their homebrew system as well that works too but they would want to spell out the relevant rules and information.

...snip...

The only fiction I know that covers this in any degree is Honor Harrington but that uses a hyper space system not FTL.

FTL has the same timing limitation. If the fleet clocks are out of synch then they don't end up in the same end locus. Of course 'slowing down from ludicrous speed' before actual 'stopping' does give ships time to adjust their speed to match each other (and avoids any stashed helmets).....if their sensors worked in FTL flight or near c conditions.

And no...wasn't giving any "house rules". Just some possible 'real world considerations' to expand on the things taalismn said. (If I had house rules I wanted to state I would of giving actual rules. Along with a notification that they were my house rules.)

As far as the Rifts game, their is too little rules about FTL travel to not have house rules to add to the all but barren landscape of rules that PB gave the rifts game.

In the HU2 MW setting rules about FTL travel: There are a few. But there are a few contradictory rules within that rules set. As such they too need to have some house rules just the rectify the contradictions. The only house rules I have for these is for one set of acceleration number is for strait line 'run to jump/FTL' acceleration and the other set of acceleration numbers is for maneuvering/combat accelerations. And the other being about overloading a ship's drive; by overloading with cargo or towing another ship; will decrease the hauling/towing ship's top speed.
➢If the example ships were using the HU space setting rules, with my house rules, then the core ship would need drives rated to the total tonnage of all three ships to go its rated max 'speed factor' while loaded down with the pair of parasite ships.

To answer the question: In the Rifts Rules for FTL travel is there any "real" reason to be able to link up multiple starships as with the example models? No.

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