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Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:19 pm
  

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Explorer

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Greetings,

While playing we had a short discussion regarding Phase Weapons and Impervious to Energy.
Does the spell block phase weapon damage or not?

In the end we ruled it was special, just as some other types of energy and it was not blocked we were left wondering.

Curious how others are ruling/playing it.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 2:08 pm
  

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Palladin

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DB2 pg122 mentions "phase beamers are stopped by magic barriers the same as if they were force fields, including magic armor, magic invulnerability, energy field, impenetrable wall of force, id barrier, and magic walls (any)."

I guess it depends on how ItE operates, if it is is a barrier type spell or operates by changing physical properties of the object. The spell description doesn't give much help. Though by all indications it looks like ItE would block Phase beamers given it doesn't appear to operate as a barrier type spell.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 6:52 pm
  

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Wanderer

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I2E is NOT a barrier spell, and only protects against "energy" weapons, a class of weapons like lasers, flamethrowers, natural fire, particle beams, and such that project or launch energy beams or blasts that burn, shock, explode or scorch the target.

A phase weapon is NOT an energy weapon. While it's similar, a high tech death ray that runs on batteries, the method of damaging the target is very different. A phase beamer does not heat you up, burn or shock you. it tears apart your body by dragging parts of it out of phase with the rest of the universe. The phase weapons have special rules, and enough flavor text otherwise to declare phase beamers are not energy, ignore I2E, and be only stopped by actual magic barriers and force fields as listed.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:37 am
  

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ITWastrel wrote:
I2E is NOT a barrier spell, and only protects against "energy" weapons, a class of weapons like lasers, flamethrowers, natural fire, particle beams, and such that project or launch energy beams or blasts that burn, shock, explode or scorch the target.

A phase weapon is NOT an energy weapon. While it's similar, a high tech death ray that runs on batteries, the method of damaging the target is very different. A phase beamer does not heat you up, burn or shock you. it tears apart your body by dragging parts of it out of phase with the rest of the universe. The phase weapons have special rules, and enough flavor text otherwise to declare phase beamers are not energy, ignore I2E, and be only stopped by actual magic barriers and force fields as listed.


Which leaves me to wonder, what would phase weapons do to somebody who is "invulnerable"? Since he's only truly harmed by magical/psionic or supernatural strength attacks?


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Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:40 pm
  

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Monk

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The twisting of space and time effect is not an energy blast.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:20 pm
  

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Demon Lord Extraordinaire

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Nuristas wrote:
Which leaves me to wonder, what would phase weapons do to somebody who is "invulnerable"? Since he's only truly harmed by magical/psionic or supernatural strength attacks?


As I recall, the wording in their description (phase weapons) implies that you have to specifically be immune to their attacks, and that other types of invulnerability don't protect against phase weapons.


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Unread postPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:40 am
  

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The Beast wrote:
Nuristas wrote:
Which leaves me to wonder, what would phase weapons do to somebody who is "invulnerable"? Since he's only truly harmed by magical/psionic or supernatural strength attacks?


As I recall, the wording in their description (phase weapons) implies that you have to specifically be immune to their attacks, and that other types of invulnerability don't protect against phase weapons.


True,

you could even consider it like a magical attack I think. Since it transcends what science can do/understand and even magic has difficulties replicating it.
It you consider it as such, all discussion is moot.

No clue if that is the right way to go though or over the top.


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Unread postPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:06 am
  

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Monk

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Nuristas wrote:
The Beast wrote:
Nuristas wrote:
Which leaves me to wonder, what would phase weapons do to somebody who is "invulnerable"? Since he's only truly harmed by magical/psionic or supernatural strength attacks?


As I recall, the wording in their description (phase weapons) implies that you have to specifically be immune to their attacks, and that other types of invulnerability don't protect against phase weapons.


True,

you could even consider it like a magical attack I think. Since it transcends what science can do/understand and even magic has difficulties replicating it.
It you consider it as such, all discussion is moot.

No clue if that is the right way to go though or over the top.


Look at the Phase Mystic in the 1st G3 book. They use ISP as their power source. If anything they are Psionic effects. But the thing is...the Phase weapons use e-clips...so they are 'in themselves' mundane (non-mystical) even if they do produce a quasi-mystical effect.

--------
The Beast wrote:
As I recall, the wording in their description (phase weapons) implies that you have to specifically be immune to their attacks, and that other types of invulnerability don't protect against phase weapons.


What do you think of a Char with the "Create Force Fields" super power. Would their power block phase weapons?

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Unread postPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:19 pm
  

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
What do you think of a Char with the "Create Force Fields" super power. Would their power block phase weapons?


If the superpower was mystically bestowed in some way, yes I'd allow it to stop phase weapons. Otherwise I'd be leaning toward treating it as a normal shield, however I think that if I were GM'ing I'd try to get a consensus for the others at the table first in case they either don't agree with it or one of them knows where Palladium has already ruled one way or the other.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:18 am
  

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Wanderer

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Create force field qualifies to stop phase beamers in it's title. Phase weapons are stopped by forcefields (DB2, pp122), whether magic or tech, and the title of the power kinda brooks no argument.

Why would there need to be a "if mystically bestowed" qualifier there?


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:42 pm
  

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Explorer

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ITWastrel wrote:
Create force field qualifies to stop phase beamers in it's title. Phase weapons are stopped by forcefields (DB2, pp122), whether magic or tech, and the title of the power kinda brooks no argument.

Why would there need to be a "if mystically bestowed" qualifier there?


I also don't think there needs to be a mystical quality to it.
Do Phase Weapons ignore cyber-armor or would they kill the cyborg's brain ignoring his metal body?


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:58 pm
  

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Wanderer

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Quote:
I was wondering what would happen if a full conversion borg was hit with a phase gun OR a phase spell. Being that their bodies are made of what I would assume to be similar material to MDC armor, wouldn't that mean that a Borg should be VERY SCARED of phase guns being that the only living body parts that they have are maybe a tongue and a brain? This would mean that a Borg with X hundred MDC could be taken out by the cheapest phase weapon in a shot or two.

Answer: Phase weaponry would bypass a Borgs normal armor. Unless the 'borg was protected by a force field, the phase beamer would harm his natural body parts. Since the few body parts are small, the phase beam would do half damage (the GM might require a called shot to hit the area where the flesh components are); the 'borg's hit points for these purposes would be either normal, or, for full conversions, P.E. plus 1D4 per level of experience.

Per the FAQ, question 9.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:45 am
  

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Champion

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This will depend on whether you consider a phase field energy, or an extremely local alteration of physical laws.

If I recall, Cosmoknights, whom are "Resistant to Energy attacks" (1/100th[?] damage) take reduced damage (1/2[?]) from phase attacks. In consideration of this, I would rule "Impervious to Energy" would essentially almost eliminate any damage, maybe a maximum of 1 point per die?

Nuristas wrote:
Do Phase Weapons ignore cyber-armor or would they kill the cyborg's brain ignoring his metal body?

Answered elsewhere, and apparently canon - phase weaponry damages the chassis of the 'borg. As a GM, I would rule that any supplemental armour bolted onto the chassis would be skipped.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:52 pm
  

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Borast wrote:
This will depend on whether you consider a phase field energy, or an extremely local alteration of physical laws.

If I recall, Cosmoknights, whom are "Resistant to Energy attacks" (1/100th[?] damage) take reduced damage (1/2[?]) from phase attacks. In consideration of this, I would rule "Impervious to Energy" would essentially almost eliminate any damage, maybe a maximum of 1 point per die?

Nuristas wrote:
Do Phase Weapons ignore cyber-armor or would they kill the cyborg's brain ignoring his metal body?

Answered elsewhere, and apparently canon - phase weaponry damages the chassis of the 'borg. As a GM, I would rule that any supplemental armour bolted onto the chassis would be skipped.



No offense intended, but nothing you posted is supported by the rules as written, or as intended. Cosmo-knights are NOT the impervious to energy spell. Any resistances they have are irrelevant. Per the official FAQ, Phase weapons ignore the chassis of a borg (all the artificial parts)as well as any armor, and only harm the organics.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:33 am
  

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Champion

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ITWastrel wrote:
No offense intended, but nothing you posted is supported by the rules as written, or as intended. Cosmo-knights are NOT the impervious to energy spell. Any resistances they have are irrelevant. Per the official FAQ, Phase weapons ignore the chassis of a borg (all the artificial parts)as well as any armor, and only harm the organics.


None taken.
However, you ARE making me walk over to my book shelf... Hang on...
>Spend several minutes reading<
Okay...
I remember reading somewhere that one type of "energy" weapon did increased damage versus CKs... (Maybe the Tri-Beam from the SA2 book?) Apparently not a phase beamer.

BUT... from the Mouth of Siembieda - Phase beamers can not "one-shot" a 'borg.
Also, from (somewhere in the morass that is) the RUE - 'borgs are immune to attacks that bypass armour.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:07 pm
  

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Wanderer

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RUE pp47 states that Borg are immune to attacks that cause damage direct to hit points.

Phase weapons do not do damage direct to hit points.
Phase weapons damage organic materials inflicting SDC or MDC as appropriate, and after depleting that SDC the damage comes off hit points as normal.

Since they ignore armor, and Borg apparently* have hit points, phase weapons do damage to the Borg's hit points. If they had SDC that would have come first.



*After a reread of the new RUE Borg entry, I am questioning if Borg actually HAVE hit points. Page 47 states "is considered a Mega-Damage bring now"
Are the new rules that a full conversion borg is an MDC structure/creature and thus has no hit points? If so, this whole discussion is moot and Borg are now likely immune to phase weapons.


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