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Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:25 pm
  

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Palladin

Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:33 pm
Posts: 10514
Location: Peterborough, Ontario
Comment: Yeah yeah yeah just give me my damn XP already :)
I have noticed in recent weeks that some posts get quietly deleted without comment or explanation to the person posting.

I have had this happen, and I know of at least 3 others that have had this happen. Having seen their posts and knowing how I personally post, I can say with some conviction, none of the posts violated any rules and none of the posters were given any explanation for these stealth deletions. I myself finally received an explanation when I proceeded to repeatedly post until they did PM me an explanation which I disagreed with but at the time left it alone.

What I want to know is if this is now standard practice on these forums and if so to what end?

These forums have a bad enough reputation and this will do nothing but worsen that reputation.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:31 pm
  

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Palladin

Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:11 am
Posts: 8438
Location: Northern Gun
Comment: 24 was the start... We are Legion.
I've noticed posts disappearing with out explanation or anything as well. At first I thought it was people removing their own posts to just avoid hassle but it's not.

Someone is removing them. For it to happen, it 'has' to be someone with admin privileges, as, common users can't make other people's posts disappear. I've seen posts go up, and disappear from threads, to go back up, and disappear again.

I've noticed entire threads that I've commented on, suddenly disappear with no explanation.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:32 pm
  

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Megaversal® Ambassador

Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:09 pm
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Comment: The silent thief of Rozrehxeson.
What was the explanation?

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:33 pm
  

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Palladin

Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:33 pm
Posts: 10514
Location: Peterborough, Ontario
Comment: Yeah yeah yeah just give me my damn XP already :)
@Glistam - I would rather not air such laundry publicly but suffice to say the posts that were deleted in fact did not break any rules. I can explain in PM if you want.

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I am very opinionated. Yes I rub people the wrong way but at the end of the day I just enjoy good hard discussion and will gladly walk away agreeing to not agree :D

Email - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, Facebook - Jaymz LaFlamme, Robotech.com - Icerzone

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:46 pm
  

D-Bee

Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:07 am
Posts: 40
Comment: Yabba Dabba Doo
I have noticed posts or entire threads disappear.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:46 pm
  

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Explorer

Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:11 pm
Posts: 167
Location: Wiesbaden, Hessen, Germany
Pepsi Jedi wrote:
I've noticed posts disappearing with out explanation or anything as well. At first I thought it was people removing their own posts to just avoid hassle but it's not.

Someone is removing them. For it to happen, it 'has' to be someone with admin privileges, as, common users can't make other people's posts disappear. I've seen posts go up, and disappear from threads, to go back up, and disappear again.

I've noticed entire threads that I've commented on, suddenly disappear with no explanation.


That's what I noticed too. And it's not just a recent thing. A lot of threads that got even mldly critical about PB just went.

Last thread I posted in that got removed was one about mssing startimg ISP of some class I forgot. Still not sure why it warranted purging.

Also very curious if this thread will disappear.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:08 am
  

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Hero

Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:18 pm
Posts: 1323
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Several of my posts have been deleted recently. No message given as to why, no temp ban that I'd usually associate with 'acting out' or poor behaviour or breaking forum rules.

A moderator is actively pruning posts that they disagree with, apparently without oversight or transparency.

This is Palladium's forum, and thus their rules, but even posts not breaking those rules are being deleted without warning or follow up. However, as I have not been given any feedback, I don't even know if this is actual Palladium policy, or if a moderator has taken it upon themselves to harass me personally for some slight (real or imagined).

Seems that it'd be easier to just ban me.

Unless that would attract attention.

And remove a source of activity (positive, negative, or otherwise) in one of the most dead subforums on this forum.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:56 am
  

Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:03 pm
Posts: 211
kinda funny on a topic that is asking your opinion that a post not breaking rules gets deleted. we all know eventually someone will ask over there why are so many people saying no to this? for the hell of i'm trying a third time over there. doubt the post will make it the day.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:50 pm
  

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Demon Lord Extraordinaire

Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:28 pm
Posts: 6299
Location: Apocrypha
Comment: You probably think this comment is about you, don't you?
Forar wrote:
Several of my posts have been deleted recently. No message given as to why, no temp ban that I'd usually associate with 'acting out' or poor behaviour or breaking forum rules.

A moderator is actively pruning posts that they disagree with, apparently without oversight or transparency.

This is Palladium's forum, and thus their rules, but even posts not breaking those rules are being deleted without warning or follow up. However, as I have not been given any feedback, I don't even know if this is actual Palladium policy, or if a moderator has taken it upon themselves to harass me personally for some slight (real or imagined).

Seems that it'd be easier to just ban me.

Unless that would attract attention.

And remove a source of activity (positive, negative, or otherwise) in one of the most dead subforums on this forum.


I agree with Forar. Either stop selectively editing or deleting posts that aren't violating any board rules or just ban me.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:15 pm
  

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Demon Lord Extraordinaire

Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:28 pm
Posts: 6299
Location: Apocrypha
Comment: You probably think this comment is about you, don't you?
Forar wrote:
Several of my posts have been deleted recently. No message given as to why, no temp ban that I'd usually associate with 'acting out' or poor behaviour or breaking forum rules.

A moderator is actively pruning posts that they disagree with, apparently without oversight or transparency.

This is Palladium's forum, and thus their rules, but even posts not breaking those rules are being deleted without warning or follow up. However, as I have not been given any feedback, I don't even know if this is actual Palladium policy, or if a moderator has taken it upon themselves to harass me personally for some slight (real or imagined).

Seems that it'd be easier to just ban me.

Unless that would attract attention.

And remove a source of activity (positive, negative, or otherwise) in one of the most dead subforums on this forum.


That same moderator is now altering my signature.

Petty tyrants thrive when they have authority backed by vague regulations.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:59 pm
  

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Demon Lord Extraordinaire

Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:28 pm
Posts: 6299
Location: Apocrypha
Comment: You probably think this comment is about you, don't you?
jaymz wrote:
I have noticed in recent weeks that some posts get quietly deleted without comment or explanation to the person posting.

I have had this happen, and I know of at least 3 others that have had this happen. Having seen their posts and knowing how I personally post, I can say with some conviction, none of the posts violated any rules and none of the posters were given any explanation for these stealth deletions. I myself finally received an explanation when I proceeded to repeatedly post until they did PM me an explanation which I disagreed with but at the time left it alone.

What I want to know is if this is now standard practice on these forums and if so to what end?

These forums have a bad enough reputation and this will do nothing but worsen that reputation.


So is there any mods here with the testicular fortitude to address any of these concerns?




Petty tyrants thrive when they have authority backed by vague regulations.

Warning: For trolling


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Unread postPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:30 pm
  

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OLD ONE

Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2000 2:01 am
Posts: 7695
Location: Indianapolis
Comment: PROUDLY Not a member of the "Cabal of 24"
Just a reminder, here is a quote from the forum rules.

Quote:
Palladium Books and its moderators, have the right and the ability to remove anything we deem to be objectionable or inappropriate, for any reason. We will make every effort to do so quickly, however, how quickly depend on a number of factors and we may not be able to remove or edit particular messages immediately.

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Palladium Books 2015 Robotech RPG Tactics Tournament Rules


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Unread postPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:54 pm
  

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Hero

Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:18 pm
Posts: 1323
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
And it is forum policy that this will be done without notification?


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Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:28 pm
  

Champion

Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 1:01 am
Posts: 2795
So people want a bit of transparency because it makes it easier to understand the law of the land and tends to make communities more drama-free in general, and the only response from a moderator anywhere in the thread is a big fat NOPE! to the idea and a reminder that they can do whatever the hell they want.

That's... that's not really helping anyone NMI.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:33 pm
  

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Supreme Being

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 1:01 am
Posts: 8556
Location: Unreality
Comment: Being a moderator doesn't mean I speak for Palladium Books. It just makes me the lifeguard at their pool.
For transparency purposes I have moved this topic to the sub-forum generally used for discussions of moderation and other board issues.

As for the primary question of this topic.

There is no enforced policy on when and how a moderator documents their actions publicly or privately.

The system can and does log our interventions, but we don't have a specific requirement to post anything.

Now, have I moderated without an explanation post? Yes.

Why Has this happened? A few reasons.

Sometimes the intervention is so minor or obvious as to not require an intervention (ie removing a duplicate post).

Sometimes, I'm moderating from my phone at work during my lunch break and forget to go back to tag what I've done when I get home in the evening.

Sometimes the posts are removed to another file to review. In some of those cases, after any warnings are done from that space, returning the posts back to the original thread would only fan further agitation so I leave them in the review file. In those cases only those who received an official warning will be aware of such.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:02 pm
  

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Hero

Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:18 pm
Posts: 1323
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Well since we're now in the "Wish List" section of the forum, I think it would be a valuable tool to change moderation policy to advise forumers when a post is deleted or altered. A number of forums I'm on follow this guideline, and I find it infinitely more useful to know that a post was moved or removed. If it simply happens invisibly, how am I to know that I have crossed a line? Surely there should be an emphasis on acknowledging where a sentiment, comment, or behaviour is unwarranted or undesired, and to reduce that from occurring rather than having to trim posts repeatedly (nearly a dozen times in Morgan's case, if I'm not mistaken).

I'm certainly not expecting the moderation team to leap into a new manner of doing things, but the way it is being done lately seems counterproductive. Why delete or trim a post several or a dozen times without notifying that person? Bugs happen, mistakes happen, this wasn't a case of deleting an inadvertent double post.

Perhaps with the dearth of activity here, it's not that hard to keep up, but on several larger forums I participate on (one you yourself are on, Jefffar), moderation is handled with a great deal more transparency and feedback.

Again, I'm absolutely *not* challenging the moderation team's right to follow the guidelines as they're laid out, but the part quoted above seems more aimed towards intentionally offensive material. Someone going off with vulgarity or linking inappropriate images or pirated material. The posts of mine that were trimmed (that I know of, how many more have been culled over the years that I didn't notice? That is an infuriating thought) were neither vulgar nor untrue, and I don't believe I even named RRT at the time (bluntly, PB has more than 1 crowdfunding debacle under their name, would people who were frustrated with Northern Gun 1 or 2 have posts deleted as well?).

Surely there are more tools in the moderation toolbox than deleting things that the mods personally dislike, or hiding those threads in subforums that might as well not exist for all the activity they see.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:03 pm
  

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Palladin

Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:11 am
Posts: 8438
Location: Northern Gun
Comment: 24 was the start... We are Legion.
Jefffar wrote:
For transparency purposes I have moved this topic to the sub-forum generally used for discussions of moderation and other board issues.

As for the primary question of this topic.

There is no enforced policy on when and how a moderator documents their actions publicly or privately.

The system can and does log our interventions, but we don't have a specific requirement to post anything.

Now, have I moderated without an explanation post? Yes.

Why Has this happened? A few reasons.

Sometimes the intervention is so minor or obvious as to not require an intervention (ie removing a duplicate post).

Sometimes, I'm moderating from my phone at work during my lunch break and forget to go back to tag what I've done when I get home in the evening.

Sometimes the posts are removed to another file to review. In some of those cases, after any warnings are done from that space, returning the posts back to the original thread would only fan further agitation so I leave them in the review file. In those cases only those who received an official warning will be aware of such.


The thing is, there's a difference between what you're talking about Jeffar, and just blatant censorship.

There's a difference between removing a duplicate post. And deleting a post that doesn't praise the company, or points out a flaw.

When multiple posts are deleted, with out warning, with out breaking the rules, with out explanation, for the simple reason "Mods didn't really like that one" (A reason that was never given and a different thread had to be started to even get -that-) then it's just blatant censorship. It's the mods not 'liking' something and using a rule that says 'for any reason' to justify silencing people on the forums. It's hiding discontent of the fanbase from others. Negative comments about RTT or the boardgame suddenly disappear. Even "Nope, not going to buy the game" in a thread asking if people were going to buy it. Suddenly going away.

That's editing the forums to present only one side. That's not cool at all.

Moving this thread here.... in this forum... Isn't for 'ease' or anything. It's getting it off the main page so fewer people will read it and see what's been going on. It's trying to 'hide' the fact that such things have been happening. You're placing it on page 20 in the paper, under the story about eating more turnips.

The thread wasn't about a bug. It was about mods simply deleting posts they didn't much care for.... Hiding it in a sub forum that hardly ever is gone to, and wouldn't be seen by people coming to the forums for general information. I've been a member of this group for over a decade. I've never opened this forum that I know of before today, and only now due to the redirect when someone pointed out that the thread had been 'moved'.

It also prevents people from going "They deleted the thread about them deleting threads" popping up on social media and other platforms, and other forums, if the thread just 100% disappeared.

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Lt. Nyota Uhura: I'm impressed. For a moment there, I thought you were just a dumb hick who only has sex with farm animals.

James Tiberius Kirk: Well, not _only_...


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Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:22 am
  

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Supreme Being

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 1:01 am
Posts: 8556
Location: Unreality
Comment: Being a moderator doesn't mean I speak for Palladium Books. It just makes me the lifeguard at their pool.
There is still a link in the section of the forums this thread originated in.

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Official Hero of the Megaverse

Dead Boy wrote:
All hail Jefffar... King of the Mods

Co-Holder with Ice Dragon of the "Lando Calrissian" award for Smooth. - Novastar

Palladium Forums of the Megaverse Rules

If you need to contact Palladium Books for any reason, click here.


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