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 Post subject: wagons?!
Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:01 am
  

Wanderer

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 1:27 pm
Posts: 76
I'm going mad here, are there any stats for non-MD horse-driven wagons anywhere in the entire Rifts line, or even stuff folks have found from real life? What if I want to have my Mutant Horse with Biped: None pull all his stuff around on a wagon or cart? I could do with SDC values, weight (which becomes relevant when calculating speed), cargo capacity and/or passenger capacity in terms of both number and weight of passengers. Specific vehicles I can think of needing are:

  • Cart
  • wagon (both covered and open, Wild Western and Medieval-European styles)
  • Gypsy Wagon
  • Chariot
  • Prison wagon (basically the same idea as a Gypsy wagon, but more heavily armoured and with less furniture inside as it's meant for prisoner transport, and not any measure of comfortable living)
  • Stagecoach

plus any more that anyone feels I might have missed would be wonderful, thankyou.


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 Post subject: Re: wagons?!
Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:21 am
  

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Virtuoso of Variants

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Comment: "Your inferiority complex might be justified."
Have you checked the Palladium Fantasy RPG books? As far as horse stats, check out the Monsters & Animals book.

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 Post subject: Re: wagons?!
Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:27 am
  

Wanderer

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 1:27 pm
Posts: 76
Stone Gargoyle wrote:
Have you checked the Palladium Fantasy RPG books? As far as horse stats, check out the Monsters & Animals book.


I've checked every PFRPG book, I can't find stats for any wagon, cart or similar vehicle. It's not the stats of horses I need, but thanks for the tip - that book does contain some very good stuff :)


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 Post subject: Re: wagons?!
Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:41 am
  

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Virtuoso of Variants

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Comment: "Your inferiority complex might be justified."
I just checked my TMNT sourcebooks and there's nothing about wagons in them either. I'm assuming you checked the ATB main book.

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 Post subject: Re: wagons?!
Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:45 am
  

Wanderer

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 1:27 pm
Posts: 76
Stone Gargoyle wrote:
I just checked my TMNT sourcebooks and there's nothing about wagons in them either. I'm assuming you checked the ATB main book.


Yep, that was the second place I looked after all my PF books.


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 Post subject: Re: wagons?!
Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:13 pm
  

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Virtuoso of Variants

Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:18 pm
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Location: Lurking on rooftops like a proper gargoyle should, in and around Lakewood, WA.
Comment: "Your inferiority complex might be justified."
Nothing found in the BTS book or Dead Reign books.

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 Post subject: Re: wagons?!
Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:21 pm
  

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Virtuoso of Variants

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Comment: "Your inferiority complex might be justified."
I did a search of past topic threads and other people have asked similar questions. I guess there are stats for gypsy wagons in RIFTS: Mystic Russia.

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 Post subject: Re: wagons?!
Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:30 pm
  

Wanderer

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 1:27 pm
Posts: 76
Stone Gargoyle wrote:
I did a search of past topic threads and other people have asked similar questions. I guess there are stats for gypsy wagons in RIFTS: Mystic Russia.


Yeah, the Gypsy Wagon is ... not a bad start, but it's still missing a lot of the information I was looking for. No weight for the vehicle, and no indication of passenger capacity (in addition to/as part of the 40 tons of cargo). Plus it's not clear whether the 40 tons of cargo is something a non-magical equivalent could carry, and everything's in M.D., though looking at it, most of the numbers wouldn't be completely unreasonable transferring 1:1 into S.D.C.


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 Post subject: Re: wagons?!
Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:35 pm
  

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Comment: "Your inferiority complex might be justified."
PalladiumBrony wrote:
Stone Gargoyle wrote:
I did a search of past topic threads and other people have asked similar questions. I guess there are stats for gypsy wagons in RIFTS: Mystic Russia.


Yeah, the Gypsy Wagon is ... not a bad start, but it's still missing a lot of the information I was looking for. No weight for the vehicle, and no indication of passenger capacity (in addition to/as part of the 40 tons of cargo). Plus it's not clear whether the 40 tons of cargo is something a non-magical equivalent could carry, and everything's in M.D., though looking at it, most of the numbers wouldn't be completely unreasonable transferring 1:1 into S.D.C.
I guess you are going to have to Google information about wagons to find out weight and passenger capacity. This seems like something that someone would need to research and write up homebrew stats for. No, I don't think you're going to want to carry 40 tons of cargo. Most wagons require at least 2 horses to pull them.

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 Post subject: Re: wagons?!
Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:40 pm
  

Wanderer

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 1:27 pm
Posts: 76
Yes, I guess I am, and then adjust the sizes and weights to account for larger-than-human sized animals... I was just trying to see if anyone had already done it.


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 Post subject: Re: wagons?!
Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:43 pm
  

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Virtuoso of Variants

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Comment: "Your inferiority complex might be justified."
PalladiumBrony wrote:
Yes, I guess I am, and then adjust the sizes and weights to account for larger-than-human sized animals... I was just trying to see if anyone had already done it.

Not that I could find, no.

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 Post subject: Re: wagons?!
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:16 pm
  

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Hero

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Honestly, unless your adventure is taking place in the old west, the dimensions of your wagon could be whatever you want it since it's not like anything in AtB would be exactly the same as those used in the 1800's, which seems to be what you are looking for.

If you are looking for a wagon pulled by a single mutant horse, I doubt that you'd be looking for the stats on a Prairie Schooner style covered wagon, but more of a Single Horse Carriage or Buckboard. Unless your character is a pretty beefy horse. :D

If your wagon is going to be wooden, SDC would be pretty low in comparison to a small car. However, in AtB, your wagon could be the remnants of an old pickup truck or utility trailer.

Not sure how best to calculate how much weight you could pull in a wagon, but you'd want to include the weight of the wagon itself.

Here are some info links:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carriage#Types_of_horse-drawn_carriages
https://www.britannica.com/technology/prairie-schooner
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckboard

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 Post subject: Re: wagons?!
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:49 pm
  

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Virtuoso of Variants

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Location: Lurking on rooftops like a proper gargoyle should, in and around Lakewood, WA.
Comment: "Your inferiority complex might be justified."
I think it comes down to what you intend to do with the wagon as to what size you would need.

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 Post subject: Re: wagons?!
Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:23 pm
  

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Champion

Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:59 pm
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PalladiumBrony wrote:
[*]Prison wagon (basically the same idea as a Gypsy wagon, but more heavily armoured and with less furniture inside as it's meant for prisoner transport, and not any measure of comfortable living)
[/list]


Most prison wagons are essentially an open wagon with a cage built on top of it.
You can build one with solid walls and restricted barred openings (windows for air/light), and a barred door (or heavy wooden door with a barred window).
However, this allows for the probability of more chicanery...although I'd advise against going through the floor while moving. Unless you're a mouse with a put-on Mexican accent and with the last name Gonzales, either the wheels, or the soldiers behind the wagon will run over you.

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 Post subject: Re: wagons?!
Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:44 pm
  

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Monk

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or a carriage with the lock on the outside & barred/too small windows

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 Post subject: Re: wagons?!
Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:08 pm
  

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Virtuoso of Variants

Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:18 pm
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Location: Lurking on rooftops like a proper gargoyle should, in and around Lakewood, WA.
Comment: "Your inferiority complex might be justified."
Yeah, prison wagons were not anywhere near as fancy as a caravan wagon.

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 Post subject: Re: wagons?!
Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:41 pm
  

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Rifts® Trivia Master

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Rali wrote:
Honestly, unless your adventure is taking place in the old west, the dimensions of your wagon could be whatever you want it since it's not like anything in AtB would be exactly the same as those used in the 1800's, which seems to be what you are looking for.


in after the bomb, you might well even see an old car or truck with the engine removed and converted to being animal pulled. a police wagon might well be an old police car that this treatment has been given to. (with the lack of interior door handles or locks in the back seat acting to serve as the prisoner area)


https://bashny.net/uploads/images/00/00 ... 6e07f5.jpg
http://petslady.com/sites/default/files ... custom.jpg
https://gypsyjournalrv.com/wp-content/u ... awn-RV.jpg

whether they still have rubber tires, or had them replaced with wooden wheels (either pure wood wagon wheels or hybrid wood spoke with rubber belt) would be up to the situation of the community and their ability to scavenge or trade for spare parts.

an advantage of this too is that we have stats for cars, trucks, and so on in the various books, and this would let you use those stats for everything but speed and range.

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 Post subject: Re: wagons?!
Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:34 am
  

Explorer

Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:48 am
Posts: 197
The eratta for Rifts World Book 14 New West has stats for Techno-Wizard Stage Coaches.
The Palladium RPG has SDC for various wagons and carts. Some of the other books have costs to repair the wheels and skills for driving the team. There's even wagons used as taxis but I'm not finding weights.
One of the later Rifters also had some wind powered land ships that could be converted to wagons. If they're not in one of the Palladium RPG books my guess would be to use wiki.


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 Post subject: Re: wagons?!
Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:24 pm
  

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Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:16 am
Posts: 345
Location: Ohio, USA
Well, I did some digging, & even came up with some older posts (https://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=132451) dealing with the topic. So far, this is what I have:
  • PFRPG 2nd Edition (p. 47) has the S.D.C. values for wagons of 3 different sizes, Wheelbarrows, & even wagon wheels.
  • In addition to the core books, Monsters & Animals has the stats on horses (& their basic types).
  • Book 13: Northern Wilderness has additional rules on pp. 29-31 about horse-drawn sleighs & wagons (including their cost), & their average travel speeds.

Beyond that, there's really nothing stats wise. However, there should be plenty of other options you can go with. For example, you can find stats for the "Prairie Schooner" (https://www.britannica.com/technology/prairie-schooner#ref1177685), which was the typical wagon seen in Westerns or TV shows (like Little House on the Prairie), or the Conestoga Wagon used for freight (https://oregontrailcenter.org/blog/what-is-the-difference-between-a-conestoga-wagon-and-a-prairie-schooner/). I'm sure other types, especially European designs, would have been somewhat similar in their capabilities.


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