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 Post subject: Well that's just Grell.
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:43 pm
  

D-Bee

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Two questions regarding the special character Grell:
For victory point purposes, consider a regular attrition squadron with Grell in a battlepod. This creates a squadron of Mecha with Life is Cheap also subject to the reinforcement rule. In this case how are victory points awarded to the opponent? How do you determine what one half of the unit is?

As an unrestricted character Grell can be purchased by a Malcontent army. Does his special ability regarding reinforcements also apply to the Malcontents? Does he give the reinforcement ability to be malcontent squadron he joins?


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Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 3:47 am
  

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Part 1 is simple, special characters added to a squadron do not count towards victory points. Victory points are awarded based on the force cards ( Core, support, special) of a squadron and built in upgrades, characters are not included in this calculation. This is described in the victory points description in the book.

Part 2 is less simple. At first glance it seems as though Grell will add the reinforcements ability to an attrition squad without the need for a Glaug, or spread the ability to catch more destroyed Regults in a large squad. Now if you read his rules it describes his ability to put Regults into reserve, even without LOS, and regardless of what Mecha he is in.

However.....his rules have no description for bringing the Regults back onto the battlefield. The Zentraedi faction card describes the mechanics of their reinforcements ability for both putting Regults into reinforcement and bringing them back to the battlefield. On the faction card it describes how Glaugs put Regults into the reinforcements and Glaugs pay a CP to bring the Regults from their squad back into play. Now back to Grell's card it describes a modification and exemption for putting Regults into aside as reinforcements but does not make any mention of bringing them out.

So rules as written Grell in an attrition squadron mounted in a Regult can put other Regults aside as reinforcements but if there is not a Glaug in the same squadron then they can't come back to the battlefield. In this case Grell is a waste if points.

Now the malcontents faction does not have the ability to put Regults into reinforcements or bring them back. In a Malcontents army Grell again is pointless, His ability is a slight enhancement to put Regults aside as reinforcements is really contigent on the Zentraedi faction card. RAW you could argue his ability would transfer if he is added to a malcontents force but again his description is for putting them into reinforcements, not out of. So sure he can save some Regults, but they would never come back to the field.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:06 am
  

D-Bee

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I can see your point, I mean he's only 5 pts after all. However that interpretation raises a long list of questions. Since he has no improved stats Grell is no different than any generic pilot except for his Reinforcement related ability, so why bother allowing him to pilot anything but a Glaug? What's the point of putting him in a Regult, say? I mean if the restriction on his ability is that severe why would a game designer even mention he can pilot anything else? Seems a little cruel to lay such a devious trap for an unsuspecting player. Also, why not restrict him like Breetai and Miriya-Parina? If he can't use the Reinforcement ability then he provides no benefit whatsoever to a Malcontent army no matter what mecha he pilots, but still costs 5 pts. These restriction to his abilities are so profound and require such detailed reading of two separate rules that it's hard to believe that no one thought to add a simple clarification like "When Piloting a Glaug", or "When subject to the Reinforcement rule" or leave off the other mecha...unless the restriction isn't there. In fact, the lack of such simple clarification invites interpretation otherwise. But then again, he is only 5 pts.

So, putting all of that aside, if a play group chooses to play with the interpretation that Grell does in fact allow a unit to utilize the Reinforcement rule while he is in a Regult, and Grell in a Regult is attached to an Attrition Squadron, then how would you determine what half of the unit is? The unit is, technically, of infinite size. Is it based on casualties suffered over the course of the game? Is it based on the number of Regults from the squadron left on the board at the end of the game? If the Attrition squadron passes the threshold, whichever it may be, and then uses the Reinforcement ability to bring the unit back to over half is the VP award cancelled?


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Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:52 pm
  

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For Grell imagine an attrition squad with two added Regult support squads and a Glaug. That's a 24 Regult squad and they can't all fit in a 8 inch bubble, so put Grell in a Regult and you space him so there are two 8 inch bubbles. You can split the squad into two halves to get back/crossfire and have both portions still able to be put into the reinforcements pile. Using him this way makes sense for the 5 points, and if he could transfer the Zentraedi faction ability to a malcontents force I'm sure he would cost more than 5.

For the attrition squad if the starting total is 12 then at the end count members on the board, six left would be half, even if some came back as reinforcements.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:11 pm
  

D-Bee

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Makes sense, and I want to get deeper into this but I don't have the rulebook or his card with me (guess what my job is paying me to do right now!) but even with a single Glaug can't a unit in close formation transfer damage within 4" (or something, somebody help me out here)? The reinforcement bubble in the unit you describe is therefore actually 12" as damage from the outside Regults can be transferred to one inside the Glaug's reinforcement bubble and I think 24 Regults could fit inside a 2' diameter circle. Your excellent explanation still doesn't explain why a Malcontent player should buy him. Why is he even available to Malcontent player?


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Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:08 pm
  

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There is no reason to buy him as a Malcontent player, most likely a simple mistake not including his name on the list of characters they can't use. I think if he transferred his ability to another faction he would be like a 20 or 30 point character like the character that boosts his whole squads SPD for free or Roy Fokker who lives past his death.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:22 pm
  

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Pythdamion wrote:
There is no reason to buy him as a Malcontent player, most likely a simple mistake not including his name on the list of characters they can't use. I think if he transferred his ability to another faction he would be like a 20 or 30 point character like the character that boosts his whole squads SPD for free or Roy Fokker who lives past his death.


I concur. While Grell has a distinct advantage while under the Zent flag, under the Malcontent Flag, he has no reinforcements to pull from...no endless clones. For the Zent player his 5pts could be well worth it, but for the Malcontents, he is useless.

Just my nickel... inflation and all.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:01 pm
  

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I have a Major problem with this. And to be clear it's not that I disagree with your assessment.

The only 3 special character that actually Exist in the macross episodes on the side of the Malcontents are Azonia Khyron, and Grell ( He has speaking lines in the cartoon on the side of the malcontents)

Which serves to annoy me greatly that he would be so pointless to include in a Malcontent force.

That being said I agree that the rulebook does not seem to allow him to confer the reinforcement ability to the Malcontent list. But (and this is just my opinion) It really feels to me like the game designers probably intended him to work with that army.

My local game group has decided (for now untill official errata) to allow Grell in any mecha to use reinforcements withing his squad in both zentradi and Malcontents.( Mostly to pay homage to the fluff over the print) however we increased his point cost in malcontents to 10.

Again those are just our house rules untill its made official, But I do agree with the consensus that he seems to be completely pointless as the rules read.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:40 pm
  

D-Bee

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Malcontent-Khyron wrote:
I have a Major problem with this. And to be clear it's not that I disagree with your assessment.

The only 3 special character that actually Exist in the macross episodes on the side of the Malcontents are Azonia Khyron, and Grell ( He has speaking lines in the cartoon on the side of the malcontents)

Which serves to annoy me greatly that he would be so pointless to include in a Malcontent force.

That being said I agree that the rulebook does not seem to allow him to confer the reinforcement ability to the Malcontent list. But (and this is just my opinion) It really feels to me like the game designers probably intended him to work with that army.

My local game group has decided (for now untill official errata) to allow Grell in any mecha to use reinforcements withing his squad in both zentradi and Malcontents.( Mostly to pay homage to the fluff over the print) however we increased his point cost in malcontents to 10.

Again those are just our house rules untill its made official, But I do agree with the consensus that he seems to be completely pointless as the rules read.


I agree and I like your solution. I think that I'll adopt it myself and try it out. Thanks for the suggestion.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:28 pm
  

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Comment: The next group of player characters to surrender in one of my games are going to play Russian roulette.
Personally Grell should almost always be placed in a Gulag, but on page 68 it does state: "Grell may set aside Regults as reinforcements no matter what mecha he is piloting"

Anyhow the way I read it is that like an RPG character converted to RPG Tactics Grell can call in reinforcements no matter what mecha he is in.

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