Rules question: Combat step, HtH and ranged attacks.

[Battle Damage]

Question for discussion:

In the combat step, are hand-to-hand and ranged attacks exclusive?

For example, could a mecha that starts its activation engaged in hand to hand combat declare its attacks as body-block, and then use command points to declare ranged attacks against it? Or, given that all attacks have a fixed damage value, could an engaged mecha declare an attack that it knows will destroy its opponent and then use command points to declare further ranged attacks against others?

The rules don't appear to state whether this is legit or not, though the split of the rules between ranged and H-t-H subsections appears to imply that it is not.

Personally, though I like the imagery of the situation above, I'm not sure that it would be a good idea.. Such a situation would make the body block attack very powerful, and reduce the utility of moving into melee as a tactic to limit your opponent's effectiveness.

Any thoughts?

(edited to widen the examples)

[Maximilian Jenius]

The combat step states that a mecha can either attack with a ranged weapon or in hand to hand. A mecha can pay command points to attack with other weapon systems but that has to be done at the same time you pick the first one that you are attacking with. And if you are base to base with an enemy to hit them you cannot use weapon systems (unless it is an aircraft and therefore cannot be engaged)

I cannot see being able to attack with both ranged and hand to hand attacks in the same activation as possible rules as written.

[Battle Damage]

Ah, I missed the bit on page 15, second column where it says you can only do one or the other.

Oh well, nothing to see here people. Move along...

[Phaze]

No, but since you can choose who attacks and when based on the previous mechas results, I can see a pair of units pull this off:

Mecha A and B move to close the range on Enemy A, but only Mecha A makes Base to Base contact and engages. In the Combat Step, Mecha A Body Blocks the Enemy A and knocks him back, then Mecha B unloads his weapons on him.

Probably not as efficient as just staying back and firing, but could be a good cinematic!

[Mike1975]

Hand to Hand is really not worth it except in 3 cases

1. A Zen or Malcontent player has another players destroids outnumbered and he can reduce their firepower by getting into hand to hand because they cannot fire in hand to hand combat and help their buddies and it helps reduce their overwhelming firepower. IF you are in range to move into hand to hand with a pod or two you are most likely to be better off sitting still and using the Focus Fire of the pod and Accuracy of the main guns so now you can fire your primary and secondary weapon for free and can hit easier. So you get a 50% increase in firepower and an increase in accuracy.

2. You have something like a FPA that is behind enemy lines that will die really quickly unless she does something to prevent the other units from firing on her. Zooming up a squadron of FPA and going HtH with a Mac II would be interesting since the Mac can no longer fire and the FPA cannot be fired on. The only hope for the Mac is some nearby units coming to the rescue.

3. You have units that excel in Hand to Hand like a Spartan and want to duke it out. A Spartan can kill two pods in a turn in Hand to Hand. It gets 2 attacks and each does 2 more points of damage. He can pay two command points and power punch twice and kill 2 pods doing 6 damage with each clubbing attack.

[Maximilian Jenius]

Denying the enemy the ability to fire is a pretty powerful incentive to have a squad of specialized hth fighters IMO.

[Mike1975]

Denying the enemy the ability to fire is a pretty powerful incentive to have a squad of specialized hth fighters IMO.

Very true IF you can get close enough. Most Demos were played on undersized tables. Now that is also a reason why I created a faction that has Hand to Hand bonuses.....

[Maximilian Jenius]

That is where veritechs are going to really shine. Their ability to move across the board super fast and then transform and engage artillery is going to be amazing. In the Monster example above they could havebone squad memeber engage it while the rest of the squad could use him for cover. Lol

[Mike1975]

I'd like to see them try. With this scale trying to take cover behind a unit is problematical. More like the rest of the Veritechs take hard cover behind the Monster. Also remember they would have to fly in one round, taking fire. The only way they could maybe do that is to move last one turn so that they are within 5 inches of the Monster, win initiative or steal an activation, then move again the next round and transform and move into melee. Not an easy feat at all considering you'll likely only use a Monster in games with 4+ squadrons per side.

[Maximilian Jenius]

It depends on how the board is layed out as well. On an open map yeah they would probably get shot up on their way in. But then again, that is why you bring Ben Dixon along!

[Phaze]

It depends on how the board is layed out as well. On an open map yeah they would probably get shot up on their way in. But then again, that is why you bring Ben Dixon along!

Yes...Yes it is.

[Battle Damage]

I imagine that tying up UEDF forces with expendable battlepods would be a good thing. Stopping destroids from firing is obviously good. And if they choose to pay the points to walk out of engagement, I imagine that reducing your opponent's command points early in the turn would pay dividends later when he runs out of points to do extra damage or protect his key mechs.

On a related note, I'm sick of reading and talking about this game. Dammit, I want to push my toys around a table instead of theory-wrestling with the rules.

(edited because I clearly lost concentration halfway through one sentence)