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Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:47 am
  

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I'm currently working on a analysis of attribute rolling house rule systems. If you'd like yours to be included in the statistical analysis please describe it below. I'm making 100,000 attribute rolls in a simulation and graphing the results for comparative study. I already have several completed. I'm looking for some more.

So far I have...
1. 3d6.
2. 5d6, take the top 3.
3. 4d6, no 1s allowed. Take the top 3.
4. 3 pairs d6, take the best of each pair.
5. 3d6 twice, take the higher total.

What else do you use?
I'll probably do a simple reroll each die if a 1, once... next.

There will be a YouTube video featuring the findings.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:25 am
  

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Well, Palladium's system is 3d6, if total is 16+add 4th d6, if that die result is 6 add 5th d6
A couple of easy random methods I've used for max 18 results are:
2+4d4
2+2d8
8+1d4+1d6
8+1d10


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:17 am
  

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For most games I use 3d6 a total of seven times and drop the lowest score.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:33 pm
  

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dice pool (rolling all my d6's at once) reroll 1's&2's, assign the individual rolls to fit char concept.

Other d's types: roll just what is called for.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:14 pm
  

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Curbludgeon wrote:
Well, Palladium's system is 3d6, if total is 16+add 4th d6, if that die result is 6 add 5th d6
A couple of easy random methods I've used for max 18 results are:
2+4d4
2+2d8
8+1d4+1d6
8+1d10


I've analyzed all of your scenarios...

4d4+2... With 4 dice being involved it creates a very centric effect where you get very average characters with very low numbers of 16s, 17s, or 18s(more than 3d6, but less than some I mentioned)... the characters also have a much lower chance for a weakness. Most of your stats will be 12 with over 17% landing on 12. That's the highest chance of hitting any number in any of the systems that I've tested.

2d8+2... Only having 2 dice means your results are more spread out with less centralization than a 3d6. It's the opposite of the 4d4 situation. You'll have more highs and lows. You might have a character with both many strengths and many flaws all put together. The results are linear and not curved.

1d4+1d6+8... being plus 8 means you'll never get a stat of 9 or lower. A stat of 10-11 is average and pronounced for a 3d6 system. So every stat will be at least average. You have a equal shot of a 13,14,15,16,or 17 of about 12.5%. A 18 or 12 would be both around a 9.3% chance and there is a linear drop off continuing down from 13 to 10 of about 3%. These will be super charged characters with high amounts of variability to outcome within that super range.

1d10+8 is a simple flat line. It starts at 9 and ends at 18 where every value has a equal value of a 10% chance. So there is no centricity at all and you again, like above but more so, will have characters that could be vastly different as there is no centricity of the attributes at all. Your stats will be all over the place, but they will be all over the place on the high end. ;-)

I think the 4d4+2 would be the best of your suggestions, but would also produce very average characters that were slightly more "sameish" with fewer high or low traits. The +2 means they are all just slightly above average, but also not as extraordinary. You'd actually have less 18s than if you rolled 3d6. The characters would be better(stronger) than if you rolled 3d6 though, certainly.


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Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:56 am
  

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GangreneTVP wrote:
I'm currently working on a analysis of attribute rolling house rule systems. If you'd like yours to be included in the statistical analysis please describe it below. I'm making 100,000 attribute rolls in a simulation and graphing the results for comparative study. I already have several completed. I'm looking for some more.

So far I have...
1. 3d6.
2. 5d6, take the top 3.
3. 4d6, no 1s allowed. Take the top 3.
4. 3 pairs d6, take the best of each pair.
5. 3d6 twice, take the higher total.

What else do you use?
I'll probably do a simple reroll each die if a 1, once... next.

There will be a YouTube video featuring the findings.


I've had players that would roll 5d6, take the top 3, AND reroll 1s.

Oh, AND I had players early on who wanted to roll a d20 for each attribute instead.
That ended up a bit TOO dynamic for them, though.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:27 pm
  

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It is hard to list here and would be very difficult to do an analysis of but I really like the attribute system set up in Robotech 2e. It is for humans, so assuming 3D6 plus 1 or 2D6 in exceptional rules, and you basically choose an attribute type so "Brainy" gives a high IQ or "Strong" gives a high PS and so on.

Each choice gives one high attribute, I think 20+1D4, then two attributes that are high so 16 to 20 I think, and then all the others are average. I have modified this system to work with any race but it is just for pre-gen convention characters.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
dice pool (rolling all my d6's at once) reroll 1's&2's, assign the individual rolls to fit char concept.

Other d's types: roll just what is called for.

I have thought about doing this several times just a question if a player takes three die and they total a 16, 17 or 18 do you allow them to add another d6 roll for exceptional?

Another for people who allow a reroll on a 1 or 2 do you allow that on exceptional rolls as well.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:38 pm
  

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Pulled from the same pool.

When I said I rolled all my D6's....I meant the physical objects. Typical I have to make two rolls with the physical dice to fill out whatever rolls I need to do.

Sometimes the concept is just for an average Joe char....Or a low roll char (where the 6's are tossed) if making a char with a high stat race.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:57 pm
  

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GangreneTVP wrote:

1d4+1d6+8... being plus 8 means you'll never get a stat of 9 or lower. A stat of 10-11 is average and pronounced for a 3d6 system. So every stat will be at least average. You have a equal shot of a 13,14,15,16,or 17 of about 12.5%. A 18 or 12 would be both around a 9.3% chance and there is a linear drop off continuing down from 13 to 10 of about 3%. These will be super charged characters with high amounts of variability to outcome within that super range.


I just wanted to point out that this isn't quite as flat as you paint it to be. 13-15 has the highest probability at 16.67% followed by 12 and 16 at 12.5%, 11 and 17 at 8.33%, and 10 and 18 at 4.17%. Because I am lazy, I use a website to give me the probabilities, and I have used this particular way to roll up stats for Pathfinder 1E characters. Some characters are so much more stat dependent in that system. The probabilities of that method according to anydice.com: https://anydice.com/program/1fdd9


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Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:39 pm
  

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Comment: They/Them
Showing a distribution which drops the lowest set of 3d6 from multiple sets of 3d6 has the problem that it's dependent on how many stats that given game uses. Some OSR/BECMI game's 6 stat system would see a little more benefit than in Palladium's 8 stat system, which is even before considering how in Palladium a bonus derived from stats only starts at a value of 16-17+.

I'm hoping to familiarize myself with anydice enough tonight to see how to implement slightly more funky functions. As an example, what are the odds of an 18 for the following: 4+2d8, if either die's result is 8 record as 7 and roll another die, take highest 2?


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Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:25 pm
  

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Mine is a bit more convoluted...
4D6, reroll 1's, reroll 2's twice and 3's once; then drop the lowest die.

An alternate system I've used frequently is one TSR introduced back in the 80's... a 6x6 grid, with the abilities running down the rows from Strength to Charisma (with a 7th row when they introduced Comeliness)...take the best result on the row for the respective ability.

Another system I know used is in the TSR Dark Sun world - 5D4 for a 5-20 basic attribute range (+/- racial bonuses/penalties).

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:24 am
  

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I probably should have posted that I primarily run the 1E fantasy system. I have people reroll 1s, all stats rolled in order, choose the desired set of stats out of 3 complete sets rolled. Any bonus dice are straight roll, no rerolls. The only exception to just using those stats is if someone is set on playing a certain type of character and none of the sets conform to the necessary O.C.C. requirements. I'm willing to just alter stats, so while that method of rolling stats usually makes something that will work, I am willing to fudge things to make sure a player can make the type of character they are after if the dice aren't cooperative.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:18 am
  

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For my early years of running Palladium I would allow rolling 4d6, rerolling 1's just one more time, and dropping the lowest die. Then if the result was 16-18 they would roll and add an additional 1d6. I don't think I was still using this method when the books allowing a second extraordinary die were published, se there we stopped with a max roll of 24 and a (very unlikely) minimum roll of 3.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:50 am
  

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My standard approach:

1. Roll 3d6 for each stat in order with standard +d6 for rolls of 16-18; re-roll 1's only.
2. Roll 2 bonus stat rolls (re-rolling 1s and 2s) that can replace any of the two stats. Each of these must be be 17+.

Sometimes players really come out swinging with high rolls and the bonus rolls are gravy. Otherwise, it still provides players with enough attribute currency to make any class they desire.

Edit: I had to go back into RUE and was shocked to see the "second additional +d6" if the bonus d6 was a '6.'

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:41 pm
  

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I always run 4d6, reroll 1s, drop the low. It produces a higher than average set of attributes that fit well with the idea of adventurers being special and above the norm.

For Palladium games you add the bonus dice on 16, 17, 18 rolls, and for races which have higher or lower numbers of dice I add one die, re-roll ones, then drop the lowest die. I do allow bonus dice for exceptional attributes within one point of maximum per die rolled.

Roll 1d6, bonus die on 6+
Roll 2d6, bonus die on 11+
Roll 3d6, bonus die on 16+
Roll 4d6, bonus die on 21+
Roll 5d6, bonus die on 26+
Roll 6d6, bonus die on 31+
And so on.
If the bonus die comes up a six, roll a second bonus die maximum two dice bonus.
I find that by giving bonus dice on one and two d6 attributes can make for exceptional PCs, and PCs should always break the mold.

Most times for my own toons and all NPCs, I just assign exceptional stats by fiat* and fill in everything else with any number below 15, As there no bonus or penalty for anything below 15, the only difference is in the RP.

*I have been doing this for a while and am well past the need for a munchkin'd out toon with all maxed stats. Some GMs will find this method of stats by fiat will be too tempting for some players, especially those with twink tendencies. Your mileage may vary.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:47 pm
  

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Comment: The silent thief of Rozrehxeson.
If you roll the standard 3d6, then roll and add another 1d6 when the first result was 16-18, and then roll and add one final 1d6 if your previous result was a 6, then achieving a 17-30 as a final result should look like this, from most to least probable: 19-21, 18, 17, 22, 23, 25-28, 24, 29, and 30. I had to figure this out in order to make a custom attribute rolling table in Roll20 for Palladium.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:21 pm
  

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ITWastrel wrote:
I always run 4d6, reroll 1s, drop the low. It produces a higher than average set of attributes that fit well with the idea of adventurers being special and above the norm.

For Palladium games you add the bonus dice on 16, 17, 18 rolls, and for races which have higher or lower numbers of dice I add one die, re-roll ones, then drop the lowest die. I do allow bonus dice for exceptional attributes within one point of maximum per die rolled.

Roll 1d6, bonus die on 6+
Roll 2d6, bonus die on 11+
Roll 3d6, bonus die on 16+
Roll 4d6, bonus die on 21+
Roll 5d6, bonus die on 26+
Roll 6d6, bonus die on 31+
And so on.

....


I'll be the one to point out, for the newbs, that if the die rolls already have a bonus in them; like 3D6+10 or 2D6+7; that they do not get any bonus dice for exceptional stats.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:37 am
  

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
ITWastrel wrote:
I always run 4d6, reroll 1s, drop the low. It produces a higher than average set of attributes that fit well with the idea of adventurers being special and above the norm.

For Palladium games you add the bonus dice on 16, 17, 18 rolls, and for races which have higher or lower numbers of dice I add one die, re-roll ones, then drop the lowest die. I do allow bonus dice for exceptional attributes within one point of maximum per die rolled.

Roll 1d6, bonus die on 6+
Roll 2d6, bonus die on 11+
Roll 3d6, bonus die on 16+
Roll 4d6, bonus die on 21+
Roll 5d6, bonus die on 26+
Roll 6d6, bonus die on 31+
And so on.

....


I'll be the one to point out, for the newbs, that if the die rolls already have a bonus in them; like 3D6+10 or 2D6+7; that they do not get any bonus dice for exceptional stats.


If I recall, 4D6 and higher have no "exceptional" stats, so no bonus rolls.
I just wish I could remember where I read that.

TTFN...0037hrs, time to sleep.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:00 am
  

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Borast wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
ITWastrel wrote:
I always run 4d6, reroll 1s, drop the low. It produces a higher than average set of attributes that fit well with the idea of adventurers being special and above the norm.

For Palladium games you add the bonus dice on 16, 17, 18 rolls, and for races which have higher or lower numbers of dice I add one die, re-roll ones, then drop the lowest die. I do allow bonus dice for exceptional attributes within one point of maximum per die rolled.

Roll 1d6, bonus die on 6+
Roll 2d6, bonus die on 11+
Roll 3d6, bonus die on 16+
Roll 4d6, bonus die on 21+
Roll 5d6, bonus die on 26+
Roll 6d6, bonus die on 31+
And so on.

....


I'll be the one to point out, for the newbs, that if the die rolls already have a bonus in them; like 3D6+10 or 2D6+7; that they do not get any bonus dice for exceptional stats.


If I recall, 4D6 and higher have no "exceptional" stats, so no bonus rolls.
I just wish I could remember where I read that.

TTFN...0037hrs, time to sleep.



I'm sure that's the rule, it's even been said no bonus dice on any rolls but 3d6. I just love the looks on my player's faces when they get a bonus die. House rule, sue me.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:30 am
  

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ITWastrel wrote:
Borast wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
ITWastrel wrote:
I always run 4d6, reroll 1s, drop the low. It produces a higher than average set of attributes that fit well with the idea of adventurers being special and above the norm.

For Palladium games you add the bonus dice on 16, 17, 18 rolls, and for races which have higher or lower numbers of dice I add one die, re-roll ones, then drop the lowest die. I do allow bonus dice for exceptional attributes within one point of maximum per die rolled.

Roll 1d6, bonus die on 6+
Roll 2d6, bonus die on 11+
Roll 3d6, bonus die on 16+
Roll 4d6, bonus die on 21+
Roll 5d6, bonus die on 26+
Roll 6d6, bonus die on 31+
And so on.

....


I'll be the one to point out, for the newbs, that if the die rolls already have a bonus in them; like 3D6+10 or 2D6+7; that they do not get any bonus dice for exceptional stats.


If I recall, 4D6 and higher have no "exceptional" stats, so no bonus rolls.
I just wish I could remember where I read that.

TTFN...0037hrs, time to sleep.



I'm sure that's the rule, it's even been said no bonus dice on any rolls but 3d6. I just love the looks on my player's faces when they get a bonus die. House rule, sue me.

I started using a similar house rule except mine is a little tougher on higher attributes.

Roll 4d6, bonus die on 22+
Roll 5d6, bonus die on 28+

Truthfully when I first ran Rifts we didn't even use the exceptional rule. Our original GMs for Robotech 1e didn't use it but when we played TMNT some of the attributes were so ridiculous we just didn't bother. I personally prefer to use the exceptional rolls as so many NPCs clearly have exceptional attributes.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:37 am
  

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Borast wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
I'll be the one to point out, for the newbs, that if the die rolls already have a bonus in them; like 3D6+10 or 2D6+7; that they do not get any bonus dice for exceptional stats.


If I recall, 4D6 and higher have no "exceptional" stats, so no bonus rolls.
I just wish I could remember where I read that.

TTFN...0037hrs, time to sleep.

Greetings and Salutations. The passage I know best (and not sure I've seen it anywhere else) is from the Palladium Fantasy Second Edition main book on page 14.

Here they mention the 3D6 rule. They also mention 2D6 gets 1 bonus die on a roll of 12. They mention that 4D6, 5D6, and 6D6 do not get bonus dice.

They address the situation of 3D6+6, bit they do NOT specify whether or not this earns bonus dice. While I would agree the intent is that bonus die only apply to straight 3D6, this is not stated within the book. The only criteria the book truly provides is based upon the number of dice rolled, which means by default of the way the rules are written I'd say 3D6+6 would earn bonus dice (even of I'd personally house rule the intent is no bonus die when an existing modifier is present).

Book and page number have been provided for anyone who wishes to verify. Farewell and safe journeys.

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