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 Post subject: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:08 pm
  

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Wanderer

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Kevin posted this on a recent update:

Quote:
"● Rifts® (and Robotech®?) Miniatures. Carmen Bellaire and I also continue to discuss the feasibility of releasing a Rifts® and/or Robotech® miniatures game even if it’s on a limited basis to start. Let us know whether you might be interested in such products.
● In addition to Carmen’s efforts, Palladium has been approached by two different people about making a Robotech® miniatures game. We are currently entertaining the possibilities."


I can confirm this to a degree. This thread appeared on the miniatures page a few days ago with a fellow who is feeling the waters for people who would be interested in Robotech miniatures. He even has a few pictures showing what he has in mind:

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=259670

This could be really good! There aren't really any Robotech miniatures out there at all. FASA had a line of miniatures that were based off Macross but they went away decades ago (and they weren't really good sculpts anyway). There was also another company out there who made some (Iron Horse? Dark Horse?) but apparently they didn't keep the line going for long although they were mentioned in the original Robotech RPG.

Those miniatures are very rare and very expensive... just check ebay! Other than those you have various Japanese plastic models in various scales that are becoming just a rare and expensive!

Now I'll admit, I'm not really a role-player any more. Oh I dabble here and there, but I haven't seriously played in ages. I'm a wargamer, and with that said, I know that there are a lot of you who do both hobbies and I know a lot of you roleplayers use miniatures for gaming. I think this could be a great product that all of us would love to have. Imagine what you could do... Here's a link to a 1/200 scale Robotech game that was played recentally. I don't even want to think about how much money or time this guy spent assembling these models:

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=132819

So seriously, who out there would be interested? Let Kevin know because he's actually giving it some thought and these people who're suggesting this are real gamers who are trying to make it happen.

Here's one of their blogs:

http://robotechbattles.blogspot.com/

He's writing the rules and making scenarios right now for playtesting.

Chime in here or at The Miniatures Page and let everyone know that you're interested in Robotech miniatures:

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg ... 100&page=1


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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:10 pm
  

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Wanderer

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Here are some quick pictures to show you what could be:

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj27 ... CT0027.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj27 ... CT0017.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj27 ... CT0009.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj27 ... CT0020.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:47 pm
  

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Megaversal® Ambassador

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I'd buy a robotech miniatures game in a heart beat. Then I would make all my friends play it.


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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:34 am
  

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Hero

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if those are the models for sale sign me up. I do not need the game rules for buying these.
is he only gonna do the macross era or is he working on all 3 eras? I want some cyclones!

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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:50 am
  

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Megaversal® Ambassador

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Invid, cyclones bioroids and hovertanks are all things that robotech fans need that have not been modeled in miniature in the past. I hope this project goes forward. Lets do some crowd sourcing for it...


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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:17 pm
  

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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:08 pm
  

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Wanderer

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Lt Gargoyle wrote:
if those are the models for sale sign me up. I do not need the game rules for buying these.
is he only gonna do the macross era or is he working on all 3 eras? I want some cyclones!


There are a couple of guys out there wanting to do this. I know one of them wants to do all three eras. I'm curious to see how he would do the cyclone in 1/300 or 1/285 scale. The bigger mecha wouldn't be too hard. But you're not going to get a lot of detail on a 1/300 scale, human-sized miniature. I've seen some very nice figures in this scale, but New Generation seems more like 10mm or 15mm. But who knows, 6mm might just work pretty well.


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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:08 am
  

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I will be first in line to buy Robotech minis if they make them

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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:17 am
  

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tgunner91 wrote:
Lt Gargoyle wrote:
if those are the models for sale sign me up. I do not need the game rules for buying these.
is he only gonna do the macross era or is he working on all 3 eras? I want some cyclones!


There are a couple of guys out there wanting to do this. I know one of them wants to do all three eras. I'm curious to see how he would do the cyclone in 1/300 or 1/285 scale. The bigger mecha wouldn't be too hard. But you're not going to get a lot of detail on a 1/300 scale, human-sized miniature. I've seen some very nice figures in this scale, but New Generation seems more like 10mm or 15mm. But who knows, 6mm might just work pretty well.



if you use 1/144th scale, like the Mechwarrior clix game scale, a cyclone would be about 10-12mm tall, depending on how "heroic" you choose to model it, and the larger mecha wouldn't be too big. a macross VF-1 or Destroid would end up about 3.5" to 5" tall depending on model, and those are the biggest types.

though if you go that scale, i'd want multi-part plastics for anything bigger than a silverback. veritechs could easily come in a box with models for all their modes, while Cyclones and ASC powered armor could come in "squad packs" with quite a few single peice models.

i have some japanese 1/144th scale VF-11 battroids, and they're only about 6inches tall, which would make a VF-1 about 5inches..

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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:50 am
  

D-Bee

Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:22 am
Posts: 9
Hey Guys,

I was one of the two guys mentioned who approached Palladium about this project. I'd been working on some miniatures because I've long enjoyed Robotech and miniatures games, there's nothing suitable available and so I decided to try my hand at it. I also run a casting company so I figured why not try and see if we can arrange something and create a liscensed product? In worst case they say no, if it works out then there'd be a really cool product out there that the fans have been dying for.

Here's some pictures of the model prototypes I've been working on

http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/uu334/paulsongames/Robotech%20Macross%20Models/regult_size2.jpg

http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/uu334/paulsongames/Robotech%20Macross%20Models/regult_size3.jpg

http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/uu334/paulsongames/Robotech%20Macross%20Models/regult_soldier2.jpg


I've put in a lot of thought in regard to the various scales, production ability, and costs. (I make my living doing miniatures) What will work best is to scale the original macross arc stuf fin 1/285 scale. Which is roughly what Battletech also uses. (models being about 2 inches tall)

The main consideration for this is the price point both for model developement and also the production. Models in that scale would likely retail for about $15 where a large 1/200 scale would end up costing $25-$30 per model. When you are buying a single model that's not much of a difference but if you intened to buy 10-20 models per side it adds up very quickly. A veritech would need three models, one for each mode and would run aprox $45 a set vs $90 for a set at a larger scale.

Another major consideration is the amount of table space that it would occupy. A 1/200 scale game is doable but needs aproximately twice the gamespace as a 1/285 scale game. There is also a much larger variety of pre-made terrain options available in 1/285 at a lower cost. There are a number of scale railroad companies that make building in 1/200 (or N scale) however few of them are what could be considered modern let alone sci fi. Additionally at a cost of $20-$50 per building it gets expensive fast.


Now when it coems to the Mospeada arc stuff the scale, IMO the scale for that stuff should be set at 1/200 the reason for this is that the vehicles are smaller and everybody wants cyclones. A cyclone at 1/285 scale would be 6mm in height which is tiny. Meanwhile a 1/200 scale one could be set at 15-20mm which is still small but a huge jump in size and what detail can be added. The Alphas at that scale would be roughly the same size as the macross mechs so they'd show plenty of detail and be priced in the same range.

As my models are being done in CAD it'd be posisble to adjust the scale so I could also offer cyclones and invid in a larger 28mm scale for people looking to use them with their rpg games or in skirmisgh type games, but getting the alphas done in that size would be fairly expensive and their size and huge movement capacity would make it difficult to include on a standard size table.

I have a bunch of WIP stuff up on my blog here: http://www.mechdudesblog.blogspot.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:16 am
  

D-Bee

Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:59 am
Posts: 1
I definitely want to show my support. I think there are enough people like me who are already putting out money for fan projects to justify an official product.

I have a number of the Battletech "Unseen" and have been collecting them since I started playing in '87. I have bought at least one copy of every fan made Macross/Robotech miniature I could put my hands on and have even bought Macross gashapon toys to use for home grown miniatures games. I've even gone so far as to buy an off-scale fan sculpted Regult from across the pond just so I'd have it to display with my "Unseen" units.

I would absolutely love to see officially supported miniatures made available, especially the Spartas hovertank, Alpha fighter, and Beta fighter since they have never had miniatures.


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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:38 am
  

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Hero

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Snake Eyes wrote:
I will be first in line to buy Robotech minis if they make them


Race you there. :D

i like the idea od cyclones and power armor coming in squad packs. and i have to agree i like th idea of plastics alot. easier to mod.

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If all of your wishes are granted then many of your dreams will be destroyed.

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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:20 pm
  

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Lt Gargoyle wrote:
Snake Eyes wrote:
I will be first in line to buy Robotech minis if they make them


Race you there. :D

i like the idea od cyclones and power armor coming in squad packs. and i have to agree i like th idea of plastics alot. easier to mod.

:lol:

Seriously, Cyclone minis would be really cool

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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:07 pm
  

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Champion

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They would have to be in stands of like 4-5, bu even so, that would be cool. One stand could be the equal of a "typical" mecha, whatever benchmark you choose you use defining typical here. I would love to see some ASC love her too, especially the battloids as general purpose units!


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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:06 pm
  

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Hero

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Snake Eyes wrote:
Lt Gargoyle wrote:
Snake Eyes wrote:
I will be first in line to buy Robotech minis if they make them


Race you there. :D

i like the idea od cyclones and power armor coming in squad packs. and i have to agree i like th idea of plastics alot. easier to mod.

:lol:

Seriously, Cyclone minis would be really cool



Yes they would. :D

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If all of your wishes are granted then many of your dreams will be destroyed.

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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:08 pm
  

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Hero

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Gryphon wrote:
They would have to be in stands of like 4-5, bu even so, that would be cool. One stand could be the equal of a "typical" mecha, whatever benchmark you choose you use defining typical here. I would love to see some ASC love her too, especially the battloids as general purpose units!


I want the ASC and master toys to. I mean minatures. :D

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Well men if we are destine to die, let us die with honor

If all of your wishes are granted then many of your dreams will be destroyed.

The final form of a person character lies in their own hands


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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:03 pm
  

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Wanderer

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"They would have to be in stands of like 4-5"

Not necessarily, I've seen 6mm skirmish games that have infantry models mounted by themselves. Check this out:

http://wpggamegeeks.blogspot.com/2011/1 ... e-for.html

Or this:

http://6mmfubar.blogspot.com/2011/10/chapter-two.html

6mm can look very nice on single bases and you can get a LOT of units on the board. Imagine say a New Generation battle where the Invid have 20-30 troopers/scouts going up against dozens of Cyclones and several Alphas. That's something that 6mm could actually do, and do rather well! I would base infantry (soldiers in just basic armor and Gallants/rocket launcher) in fire teams of 4 or so, but I would single base Cyclones and Cyclones in armor mode in 6mm.

Kind of cool to imagine a board with those minis!


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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:37 pm
  

D-Bee

Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:22 am
Posts: 9
Hi Guys, here's a link to some of the models I've been working on, please swing by and add you "like " comments to help show your interest in a miniatures game http://www.facebook.com/RobotechMiniatures


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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:39 am
  

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D-Bee

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Hello Everyone, My name is Thomas Roache, PE. I'm the developer putting together Robotech Battles. Here is a little blurb to get the ball rolling about my game..

"Welcome to the Tabletop Miniatures Skirmish Game based on Robotech from the Japanese version of the Anime Series Macross. Robotech Battles is a 3D Tabletop Skirmish Game where you can either be human or the alien Zentradi. You are the pilot in control of Devastating Transformable Mecha battling for the earth’s survival, or the alien commander in control of the hordes of giant aliens bent on war and domination. Aerial Dogfights, missile trails filling the sky, and Mecha on Mecha combat give you the player, a taste of the Robotech Universe.
Play out your favorite scenes from the Robotech series in this skirmish game where the fate of the First Robotech war can be decided on the results of your battles.
A few simple things about the game: The game is an action/reaction based skirmish game where your pilots have the means of fully using the environment they are in to travel through the landscape (this includes up and down as well). Missiles are the imaginary third player and act independantly once fired and be careful if they miss. Terrain can be targeted and will blow up if your not careful. Set-up is fast and gameplay is faster."


I'm here to just introduce myself and give a little bit of info on Robotech Battles. Currently the rules cover about half of the First Robotech War. I have big plans for the second half and the remaining Robotech Wars (Masters and New Generation) I had to start somewhere, so I started with the first half of the First War. Additional rules and scenarios are in development for bigger combats and better Mecha. but none of that can happen without your interest and support.
I'm independant from Jon, the creator of the great Miniature designs that you have been shown but we talk alot and we feel that if we can give a full game experiance with amazing miniatures than all the better. If you are interested in just the miniatures, thats cool also. I've always wanted to see Robotech on the Tabletop and I hope you have also. All I'm asking is that you take a minute and show your support for getting A Robotech Tabletop Miniatures game and a line of amazing miniatures produced. Let Kevin know that your interested in seeing this happen.
Thanks
Tom
http://robotechbattles.blogspot.com/

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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:56 am
  

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Explorer

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I am so IN for Robotech Miniatures... Macross, Southern Cross, Invid Invasion, Shadow Chronicles... all of them. Will buy in massive quantity.

BTW, there is growing voice on FACEBOOK for Palladium Books producing these miniatures. If you can, post to Palladium here and on Facebook to let them know you want your awesome Robotech miniatures! Search out on Facebook: Robotech Miniatures for one guy who is doing a spectacular job on making his own and trying to get the go-ahead from Palladium Books to be the sculptor for this line of minis.

~O

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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:44 am
  

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Hero

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i do not mind the bases as long as they make sense to the game.

i like the idea of custom bases. and i do alot with my minatures i have.

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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:42 pm
  

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Palladin

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I may not game with them, but I will sure collect them. Though I hope they are painted. Is there a poll on site for this? And yes, I would also go for the Rifts ones too.


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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:56 pm
  

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Champion

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I want to be able to GM an epic CS/ASC cross over, or maybe even a team up of Triax and E.B.S.I.S. troops fighting a desperate battle to contain the Gargoyle menace before it is unleashed upon the unsuspecting Robotech: Earth setting.

Oh, and a Glitter Beta too! No, wait, that's not allowed, is it? Dangit... :(


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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:34 am
  

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Hero

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I prefer to paint my own.
I am so with you gryphon on the desire to have rifts and robotech mini's. Cross over games here we come.

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If all of your wishes are granted then many of your dreams will be destroyed.

The final form of a person character lies in their own hands


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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:21 pm
  

Adventurer

Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:27 pm
Posts: 496
The samples look really good, looking forward to seeing more.

I would buy them IF minis were released for all 3 sagas, with some of each saga's line being released at the same time to ensure none of the 3 sagas would be left out.

I would personally prefer the minis without a game, in which case I would hope all of the Robotech minis were to scale. Should there be a game, it would probably make more sense to produce them in approximately the same size and not in scale.

Material used doesn't really matter to me as long as you can handle them without worrying they are going to break in you hand, this also might significantly affect cost depending on what scale is used.

I would favor painted versions if the additional cost wasn't too much, but unpainted is fine and I imagine some people would like to give theirs customized paint jobs anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:25 pm
  

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Rifts® Trivia Master

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if there is going to be a game, i'd prefer scale to remain near constant between era's. sure, an Invid scout is small enough to play "mellinium falcon" on the back of a Zentreadi battlepod...but that just means in a game the invid scout is going to have more cover options than the more potent battlepod, without having to resort to hexgrid maps and other such metagaming approaches.


as i've mentioned before, i'd go with N-scale, or about /144th scale. in some wargaming circles. this would result in cyclones being about half of an inch high, the Logan battloid being about an inch high, an Alpha battloid being about 3 inches high, and a Vf-1 battloid being 4.1 inches high. zentreadi battlepods would be about 6 inches, while Zentreadi footsoldiers would wind up between 3 inches and 3.5 inches.

N-scale has plenty of terrain available for use.. N-scale being one of the more common scale for model trains, and for quite a few miniatures wargames (like the popular Heavy Gear Blitz!.) even the high quality train set buildngs rarely go above $10 for a multi-story house.. though inner city large buildings, warehouses, and factories can go for more given their size. but you can obtain lots of terrain pretty quickly this way, and scratchbuilding for this scale is pretty easy.

it would also lend itself well to RIFTS, and if Palladium desired crossover potential, this scale would be my suggestion, give RIFTS generally focus on smaller vehicles and on human sized combatants.

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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:18 am
  

D-Bee

Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 2:42 pm
Posts: 13
Some things that make he production of miniatures for Robotech difficult is that Harmony Gold will, likely,
try to make sure the miniatures can ONLY be used for Robotech. There are many people who go hunting for the
Dark Horse miniatures(I know..I was trying to get one of their fighters recently) for large sums of money, and the
people who try to buy the Ral Partha miniatures(or, worse, the people who recast the Ral Partha/Dark Horse miniatures!)
are generally NOT buying them for anything Robotech related. In many cases, they are buying them for Battletech,
the game that originally had licensing issues(really complicated...and tends to start Flame Wars) that Harmony Gold
got them to stop using the Macross, Crusher Joe, and Dougram art(and even some things that were original art, that
Harmony Gold said was too close to other stuff). This does create a potential issue with making them since, it runs
the risk of diluting HG's IP ownership of Robotech and Macross.

All that said: Please give me Robotech minis! I will be in line REALLY quickly to get some!


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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:44 pm
  

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Rifts® Trivia Master

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actually HG didn't get them to stop using the Unseen in battletech.. FASA removed them themselves after liscensing issues arose to avoid possible issues.

and players using the minis for purposes other than the official game doesn't do **** to HG's IP status. if another company were to start making a for profit game using the robotech minis without HG's approval, then there would be a problem. but if people want to buy robotech minis for non-robotech games, all that does is drive up the sales of the minis. it would have zero effect on the IP's of any of the games involved.

now, would HG want to keep a robotech minis game and a rifts Minis game sperate IP's? probably. would that prevent the minis and rules being compatable/ not really. look at the wizkids heroclix game, and their Haloclix game. the two use the same basic rules, and similar sized figures..but the two are seperate liscenses and as long as Wizkids didn't try to make official crossover rules, there was no IP issue. unofficial Fan made stuff doesn't effect IP unless the fans try to make money off it or the fans claim it is 'official product'.

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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:18 pm
  

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i think even if the rules are basically compatible its not gonna be any different then the role playing games. they are both compatible, yet have their own basic system.

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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:44 pm
  

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I think they should be plastic, and sold as Blister packs
but not random

I like the designs, but i think Cyclones/invid should be done in their own scale, as people will want at least 1" units on a battle field with taller robots. (they get lost easy and you get bogged down in meter movement.)
Prepainted. They should Cost the same as HeroClix packs, or about $20 a set.
ideally, they should be sold by Squad, with Optional Hero/Villain Mechs in metal or some other detail
they should have 6 or 7 figures a set.

going all metal = Too expensive, will kill interest in the line.

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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:38 pm
  

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i do not want them to be heroClix, nor do i want random packs. it makes building an army to play with over priced. I do not mind my cyclones or smaller units to be small.
I can agree $20 a pack for the bigger models. I do not want any to be metal as i like the idea of converting them. And heros will still be given the same basic model as the other.

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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:49 pm
  

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Someone pointed out in the Protoculture Times Robotech group that all mecha should be the same scale since Robotech is multi-generational and by the time of 3rd gen there are mecha from all 3 generations fighting together.
glitterboy2098, N-scale sounds like it might be a good idea as it provides a lot of choice for accessories and while Robotech is based around mecha there are trains, vehicles, buildings, plants, people, etc in all 3 gen environments. Wonder how this scale change would affect costs estimates?

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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:40 pm
  

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rtsurfer wrote:
Someone pointed out in the Protoculture Times Robotech group that all mecha should be the same scale since Robotech is multi-generational and by the time of 3rd gen there are mecha from all 3 generations fighting together.
glitterboy2098, N-scale sounds like it might be a good idea as it provides a lot of choice for accessories and while Robotech is based around mecha there are trains, vehicles, buildings, plants, people, etc in all 3 gen environments. Wonder how this scale change would affect costs estimates?


shouldn't effect costs too much. most of the figures end up 2x larger.. but with larger figures you can also use weight and materials saving methods like hollow parts (zent pods, being the biggest, could be cast in resin or plastic with 2-3 part mainbodies, with hollow insides. other large mecha could use similar multi-part design to not only reduce the materials required, but also to allow greater posability and in theory, customization (the latter opening up the option for players to build their favorite IMU's.. :) )

the fact that most of the mecha in robotech are smaller (ASC and New gen eras), what with hovertanks and bioroids (20ft tall), Logans (12ft tall), Alpha's (36ft), etc, really will reduce costs. though you'll want to price the Macross era stuff such that they can compete with the japanese 144th scale gashapons and plastic model kits..which generally run $10 for gashapons and non-transforming, up to $30 for the highly detailed fully transforming kits. of course, shipping costs from japan tends to be killer, even if you order from somewhere like hobbylinkjapan. and most of those japanese kits and gashapons are currently OOP, so it's all "while supplies last". of course, they've generally focused more on the Spinoff series instead of SDF macross itself, so while you have lots of VF-11's and VF-19's, and so on..there aren't all that many VF-1's, destroids, and zentreadi mecha.. (though last i checked HLJ had a supply of zent MPa and FPA kits in 144th scale still on hand for about $10 per.. not very popular i guess..)

(edit; checked.. HLJ.com no longer has FPA kits in 144th scale.. they have MPA's, VF-11's, VF-11MAXL's, and VF-17's..)

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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:04 pm
  

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On http://www.facebook.com/RobotechMiniatures, he suggest 1st gen in N-scale would be about $30 each and says people are already balking at $15 each. I understand he wants to maintain a high level of detail and quality but that seems a bit pricey when Toonami can produce painted 1/100 scale transformables/poseables for about the same price. Not to mention there are ~1/300 Macross sets of 6 on ebay for about $35. Yeah I know that's not really a fair comparison since his are hand crafted and the others are mass produced.

I don't plan to game with them so I will probably get the 2nd & 3rd gen ones, if they are ever released, but not the 1st gen if they are not all in scale. Additionally, the wider the selection and availability of props and accessories in their scale the more likely I am to buy these.

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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:42 pm
  

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part of it is resin tends to be more expensive than plastic, and metal worse than resin.

if HG wants to do a miniatures game for robotech, i'd suspect they'd arrange something with a company able to use plastic..

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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:24 pm
  

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The idea that plastic equals less expensive is not necessarily true, gentlemen. The initial start-up costs for plastic figures are much greater than metal or resin and the price advantage only comes out in enormous runs. If you can guarantee that a market capable of supporting that kind of production run exists, it's a good investment. However, unless the long rumored (since '07) live action Robotech movie becomes a reality and blows up huge, I don't see it being realistic. The franchise has a loyal fanbase, but not a very large one.

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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:55 pm
  

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Didn't the early MPC volumes sell out at 15k? Although I believe sales have significantly dropped on more recent MPC volumes and other Robotech collectables/toys.

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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:25 am
  

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Most of the MPC toys capped out at less than 5k copies, they also axed the run of shadow betas because the sales on the others versions were too slow.


Plastic injection molding is cheap only when looking at individual copies, however the start up costs for the die milling, cad design and machining time are quite costly. $50K+ for each mold made, so you need to move massive numbers of kits in order to make up the inital investment. (a single plastic injection mold would cost more than the entire line being made in metal or resin)

Doing the models in white metal or resin also allows more options for the details as they are able to have undercuts and features that you cannot do with plastic injection. Individual models cost more however they have a fraction of the start up cost involved.

Start up costs on this project are a huge consideration as there's also liscensing fees involved.


In regard to the models size, the mold costs are the most significant portion of the material costs. A larger models requires signifincantly larger molds and in most cases large models need to be broken into multiple pieces which means instead of using a single mold per model you might have somewhere between 3 and 5 molds.

(when you are dealing with square volumes you aren't just doubling the volume to increase the size, instead it'll use 4-6 times as much material, before even calculating in extra molds)


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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:09 am
  

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rtsurfer wrote:
Didn't the early MPC volumes sell out at 15k? Although I believe sales have significantly dropped on more recent MPC volumes and other Robotech collectables/toys.

If what Harmony Gold staffers have revealed about MPC sales is on the mark, it's doubtful they've ever actually sold out the entire limited run of one of those toys. In many cases, they supposedly never reach the halfway mark, even after they had dropped the cap from 15,000 all the way to 5,000. They get a couple hundred at a time, and when those sell out they just order a few hundred more... lather, rinse, repeat until sales drop off, they stop reordering, and announce "SOLD OUT" when their existing stock is gone. (Usually thousands of units short of the actual limited edition limit.)


mech_dude wrote:
Most of the MPC toys capped out at less than 5k copies, they also axed the run of shadow betas because the sales on the others versions were too slow.

IIRC, the limit on the "limited edition" MPCs was set to 15,000 units for the VF-1s and Alpha fighters, cut to 10,000 for the Betas, and cut again to 5,000 for the Cyclones, Maia's Shadow Fighter, and the canceled Shadow Betas.

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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:42 am
  

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This is great and I would buy lots of minis :-)

My points would be:

1. They need t be supplied unpainted so we can paint them.
2. The New Gen figures should be a larger scale than the macross stuff and maybe come in two scales, one for battling mecha and another in the GW 30mm scale so we can have cyclones and characters at a nice size and be able to mix in characters from other games, also maybe do the invid scout and enforcer/soldier at this scale as it still shouldnt be that large. This would be great for RPGs
3. Please do all the Invid mecha including the new Overlord :-)
I hope this project takes off


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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:41 am
  

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mech_dude wrote:
Most of the MPC toys capped out at less than 5k copies, they also axed the run of shadow betas because the sales on the others versions were too slow.


Plastic injection molding is cheap only when looking at individual copies, however the start up costs for the die milling, cad design and machining time are quite costly. $50K+ for each mold made, so you need to move massive numbers of kits in order to make up the inital investment. (a single plastic injection mold would cost more than the entire line being made in metal or resin)

Doing the models in white metal or resin also allows more options for the details as they are able to have undercuts and features that you cannot do with plastic injection. Individual models cost more however they have a fraction of the start up cost involved.

Start up costs on this project are a huge consideration as there's also liscensing fees involved.


In regard to the models size, the mold costs are the most significant portion of the material costs. A larger models requires signifincantly larger molds and in most cases large models need to be broken into multiple pieces which means instead of using a single mold per model you might have somewhere between 3 and 5 molds.

(when you are dealing with square volumes you aren't just doubling the volume to increase the size, instead it'll use 4-6 times as much material, before even calculating in extra molds)



I'm a sculptor myself with some experience with mold making ( traditional stuff common for fine artists, lost wax bronze, rubber molds ect. ) I find this very interesting. I would think ( not being an expert like yourself ) that you could keep the molds to a two piece mold through sculpture composition, and bang them out. Are the silicone rubbers suitable for what you intend? I have never done mass produced work, so I dont know how many castings you could realistically produce in the lifetime of the mold. I know rubber molds can reproduce detail and undercutts very well, but can they produce the volume of castings your after?

Best of luck with your proposal, the mini's I've seen so far look great. I'll forgive you for using computers and 3D printers instead of a sculptor.. :evil:

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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:16 pm
  

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miniroll161 wrote:
This is great and I would buy lots of minis :-)

My points would be:

1. They need t be supplied unpainted so we can paint them.
2. The New Gen figures should be a larger scale than the macross stuff and maybe come in two scales, one for battling mecha and another in the GW 30mm scale so we can have cyclones and characters at a nice size and be able to mix in characters from other games, also maybe do the invid scout and enforcer/soldier at this scale as it still shouldnt be that large. This would be great for RPGs
3. Please do all the Invid mecha including the new Overlord :-)
I hope this project takes off



I prefer to keep the entire model line to one scale. I am not woried about trying to make my robotech game cross over with My warhammer stuff. I will use them in rpging as well, i think it would be great for PCs to have a great visual effect such as that.

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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:18 pm
  

D-Bee

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Jupios wrote:
I'm a sculptor myself with some experience with mold making ( traditional stuff common for fine artists, lost wax bronze, rubber molds ect. ) I find this very interesting. I would think ( not being an expert like yourself ) that you could keep the molds to a two piece mold through sculpture composition, and bang them out. Are the silicone rubbers suitable for what you intend? I have never done mass produced work, so I dont know how many castings you could realistically produce in the lifetime of the mold. I know rubber molds can reproduce detail and undercutts very well, but can they produce the volume of castings your after?

Best of luck with your proposal, the mini's I've seen so far look great. I'll forgive you for using computers and 3D printers instead of a sculptor.. :evil:


Silicone molds do wear pretty quickly, which is part of why the cost for resin products is high, a typical silicone mold nets somewhere between 30-50 copies. Using proper release agents you can extend that a bit and get maybe 100-200 copies with some luck. You can use vulcanized rubber for spincasting both for metal and resin and those molds can usually last for a thousand casts or more. They aren't very cheap however and require special equpiment to make. Production capacity is certainly possible. (games workshop switched much of their line over to resin recently)

(I use two part molds for all my casting btw)

As for the 3d vs traditional sculpting, I've found most sculptors (including myself) really have difficulty with hand sculpting mecha. Straight lines and mirrored details are pretty tough to do when working by hand. The zentraedi pod was hand sculpted by Sean so, there's at least some hand crafted work in there ;)

There's a huge shift in the sculpting industry happening right now to digital sculpting, there's a lot of advantages to it. I still think a traditional hand sculpt is incredible, but within the next couple years I see it heading to 80% digital. So anybody wanting to break into the field is going to have to know it.


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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:55 pm
  

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Well, dont I feel like a dinosaur.

When I graduated college 15 years ago I was the only sculpture major who took the time to model figures and stuff, people called me crazy for not just doing life casts. Seems I'll be called crazy again, but for slightly different reasons ;P Oh if I only had a nickel...

Regardless, its very interesting to lean a bit about the mass production world. Thankfully, there will always be a place for traditional skills. Certain buyers of things like art and furniture value things that are "hand made". Once in a while "crazy" pays off. I'm not extinct just yet.

Now, if there were only a cool mini game simplified enough for me to play with my kids...It would be great to see Palladium run with something similar to the idea I floated in the Rifts Mini thread in the All Things Palladium forum.

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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:24 am
  

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Jupios wrote:
Well, dont I feel like a dinosaur.

When I graduated college 15 years ago I was the only sculpture major who took the time to model figures and stuff, people called me crazy for not just doing life casts. Seems I'll be called crazy again, but for slightly different reasons ;P Oh if I only had a nickel...

Regardless, its very interesting to lean a bit about the mass production world. Thankfully, there will always be a place for traditional skills. Certain buyers of things like art and furniture value things that are "hand made". Once in a while "crazy" pays off. I'm not extinct just yet.

Now, if there were only a cool mini game simplified enough for me to play with my kids...It would be great to see Palladium run with something similar to the idea I floated in the Rifts Mini thread in the All Things Palladium forum.


use games workshop system for gaming demos when playing with your kids. the four F's: fours, Fast, Ferocious, fun.
fours, everything hits, wounds and saves on four.
fast; your into the thick of it within the first turn.
Ferocious; Models die!
Fun; self explanitory here. But at GW they made us make a story and make sound effects and ect.

Once your kids get older then you begin to break them into the real rules.

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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:33 pm
  

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Hey thanks for the tip Lt Gargoyle. I'll look into that. In my Christmas grab bag I requested HU as a game I might try with my boy, but soon found it was far to complicated and would require me to basically re-invent its rules, and Im no game designer. It was that Christmas morning as I watched my son playing with a spinning top ( Bayblade) and lego mini figures ( he basically ignored the rest of the lego set ;P ) when I thought of the idea I shared in the other thread.

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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:03 pm
  

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I am against unpainted minis, as they don't sell, and you will never sell the volume as games workshop does.
If you want to paint the damn things, buy the model kits from Japan.

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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:04 pm
  

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Jupios wrote:
Hey thanks for the tip Lt Gargoyle. I'll look into that. In my Christmas grab bag I requested HU as a game I might try with my boy, but soon found it was far to complicated and would require me to basically re-invent its rules, and Im no game designer. It was that Christmas morning as I watched my son playing with a spinning top ( Bayblade) and lego mini figures ( he basically ignored the rest of the lego set ;P ) when I thought of the idea I shared in the other thread.


lego sells board games for kids that use figs and such. Try those first. if he's able to comprehend the board games get him onto something else.

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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:10 pm
  

D-Bee

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Rappanui wrote:
I am against unpainted minis, as they don't sell, and you will never sell the volume as games workshop does.
If you want to paint the damn things, buy the model kits from Japan.


There's no chinese child slave labor available in the US, so the price for offering pre-painted figs would be too much.

Also most of the kits made by Bandai, Araii, Yamato are all made in China (but sold under Japanese labels)


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 Post subject: Re: Robotech Miniatures?
Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:29 pm
  

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So how much would it be to import some Chinese child slave labor then?

What...why are you all looking at me like that?

Seriously though, it would be too cool to have these as mini-figs, and I would not be at all adverse to a rule set to use them, and maybe even a second smaller rule set to integrate them into the RPG setting, though i admit that might be a bit ambitious, you know getting ahead of myself and all.


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