Holy symbols and weapons.

[Hawk258]

As many items that are considered holy symbols in rifts, would a I wonder would a greater run weapon in the likeness of Mjolnir count when used in combat with a being that is effected as such?

[Axelmania]

I don't think so, we actually have Mjolnir statted in CB2 though so someone could check.

[eliakon]

As many items that are considered holy symbols in rifts, would a I wonder would a greater run weapon in the likeness of Mjolnir count when used in combat with a being that is effected as such?

If it was being wielded by someone to whom it was a holy symbol? Maybe.
What is a "holy symbol" in palladium though is in and of itself sort of vague. Especially since if you used everything that was a symbol of any religion ever... then pretty much anything is a holy symbol.

Crosses and Ankhs both get called out as holy symbols. I am not to sure about what else would or would not count.

[Hawk258]

As many items that are considered holy symbols in rifts, would a I wonder would a greater run weapon in the likeness of Mjolnir count when used in combat with a being that is effected as such?

If it was being wielded by someone to whom it was a holy symbol? Maybe.
What is a "holy symbol" in palladium though is in and of itself sort of vague. Especially since if you used everything that was a symbol of any religion ever... then pretty much anything is a holy symbol.

Crosses and Ankhs both get called out as holy symbols. I am not to sure about what else would or would not count.

Well I guess it depends on the user and creator (if not the same person) I "assume" that like anything else "belief" imparts ppe into an item to some extent.

And imprints strong feelings of faith, hope, ect. As vampires are psychic entities that would be sensitive to such things.

[dreicunan]

As many items that are considered holy symbols in rifts, would a I wonder would a greater run weapon in the likeness of Mjolnir count when used in combat with a being that is effected as such?

If it was being wielded by someone to whom it was a holy symbol? Maybe.
What is a "holy symbol" in palladium though is in and of itself sort of vague. Especially since if you used everything that was a symbol of any religion ever... then pretty much anything is a holy symbol.

Crosses and Ankhs both get called out as holy symbols. I am not to sure about what else would or would not count.

That is an issue. Most games that decide to include holy symbols against vampires and decide to be PC about what counts as holy require that it be wielded by someone who actually has belief in the religion, locating the power of the symbol not in the symbol itself but in the faith of the wielder. Palladium (VKr p. 73) says that the cross is especially abhorrent but makes it clear that the power of the symbol work regardless of the faith of the person wielding it. Active doubting of it or being completely unaware of it wouldn't stop a symbol from being effective. So if Mjolnir is a holy symbol, RAW any weapon in its shape works for an atheist so long as it is held (holy symbols not held in ones hand can't harm them).

So forget rune weapons, a nueromace in the shape of Mjolnir may not be able to damage them as a weapon, but you can touch them with it as a holy symbol and do some damage, and have an 85% chance of immobilizing them for a melee round unless they are attacked, and then after being attacked leave them with their bonuses halved. Actually, there would be a good argument for a house rule allowing a Mjolnir-shaped weapon that can also damage vampires normally (silver plated or made of wood) to both do their damage and force a save as a holy symbol (Thor doesn't walk around merely touching it to his foes!).

[eliakon]

As many items that are considered holy symbols in rifts, would a I wonder would a greater run weapon in the likeness of Mjolnir count when used in combat with a being that is effected as such?

If it was being wielded by someone to whom it was a holy symbol? Maybe.
What is a "holy symbol" in palladium though is in and of itself sort of vague. Especially since if you used everything that was a symbol of any religion ever... then pretty much anything is a holy symbol.

Crosses and Ankhs both get called out as holy symbols. I am not to sure about what else would or would not count.

That is an issue. Most games that decide to include holy symbols against vampires and decide to be PC about what counts as holy require that it be wielded by someone who actually has belief in the religion, locating the power of the symbol not in the symbol itself but in the faith of the wielder. Palladium (VKr p. 73) says that the cross is especially abhorrent but makes it clear that the power of the symbol work regardless of the faith of the person wielding it. Active doubting of it or being completely unaware of it wouldn't stop a symbol from being effective. So if Mjolnir is a holy symbol, RAW any weapon in its shape works for an atheist so long as it is held (holy symbols not held in ones hand can't harm them).

So forget rune weapons, a nueromace in the shape of Mjolnir may not be able to damage them as a weapon, but you can touch them with it as a holy symbol and do some damage, and have an 85% chance of immobilizing them for a melee round unless they are attacked, and then after being attacked leave them with their bonuses halved. Actually, there would be a good argument for a house rule allowing a Mjolnir-shaped weapon that can also damage vampires normally (silver plated or made of wood) to both do their damage and force a save as a holy symbol (Thor doesn't walk around merely touching it to his foes!).

Which would pretty well rule it out as a holy symbol!
If "things shaped more or less like hammers" are valid holy symbols, then that is a pretty big weakness.
And that's just one god. Drawing up a list of gods and their one handed holy symbols would be enormous. But off hand it would make virtually every melee weapon in existance a holy symbol that works for anyone... and as that is probably NOT the intent of the game... I would assume that they won't work that way.

Just a partial list of some symbols from the Greeks...
Scepters, Spears, Bows, Arrows, Circles, Armor, Helmets, Wheels, Snakes, Mirrors, Grapes, Pomogranets, The Sun, The Moon, Lighning bolts, Horses, Cows, Feathers, Fire, Keys, and several musical instruments....

[Hawk258]

As many items that are considered holy symbols in rifts, would a I wonder would a greater run weapon in the likeness of Mjolnir count when used in combat with a being that is effected as such?

If it was being wielded by someone to whom it was a holy symbol? Maybe.
What is a "holy symbol" in palladium though is in and of itself sort of vague. Especially since if you used everything that was a symbol of any religion ever... then pretty much anything is a holy symbol.

Crosses and Ankhs both get called out as holy symbols. I am not to sure about what else would or would not count.

That is an issue. Most games that decide to include holy symbols against vampires and decide to be PC about what counts as holy require that it be wielded by someone who actually has belief in the religion, locating the power of the symbol not in the symbol itself but in the faith of the wielder. Palladium (VKr p. 73) says that the cross is especially abhorrent but makes it clear that the power of the symbol work regardless of the faith of the person wielding it. Active doubting of it or being completely unaware of it wouldn't stop a symbol from being effective. So if Mjolnir is a holy symbol, RAW any weapon in its shape works for an atheist so long as it is held (holy symbols not held in ones hand can't harm them).

So forget rune weapons, a nueromace in the shape of Mjolnir may not be able to damage them as a weapon, but you can touch them with it as a holy symbol and do some damage, and have an 85% chance of immobilizing them for a melee round unless they are attacked, and then after being attacked leave them with their bonuses halved. Actually, there would be a good argument for a house rule allowing a Mjolnir-shaped weapon that can also damage vampires normally (silver plated or made of wood) to both do their damage and force a save as a holy symbol (Thor doesn't walk around merely touching it to his foes!).

Which would pretty well rule it out as a holy symbol!
If "things shaped more or less like hammers" are valid holy symbols, then that is a pretty big weakness.
And that's just one god. Drawing up a list of gods and their one handed holy symbols would be enormous. But off hand it would make virtually every melee weapon in existance a holy symbol that works for anyone... and as that is probably NOT the intent of the game... I would assume that they won't work that way.

Just a partial list of some symbols from the Greeks...
Scepters, Spears, Bows, Arrows, Circles, Armor, Helmets, Wheels, Snakes, Mirrors, Grapes, Pomogranets, The Sun, The Moon, Lighning bolts, Horses, Cows, Feathers, Fire, Keys, and several musical instruments....

If a mayan luck stones counts why not?

When you consider that all items that can seriously harm a vampire are all able to be influenced by the 4 elements

Earth: silver/wood
Fire: sun and fire
Water/air (air and water warlocks can use circle of rain)

And that the 4 primal elements have roots in most religions it makes some sense.

I mean honestly an image of a cow would count.

[RockJock]

Vampire Kingdom Revised talks about the symbol having the power against bloodsuckers, with or without belief. To me that means pretty much any holy symbol of good will work as a cross. Now that can get interesting when you think of live animals like cows or geese.

[eliakon]

Vampire Kingdom Revised talks about the symbol having the power against bloodsuckers, with or without belief. To me that means pretty much any holy symbol of good will work as a cross. Now that can get interesting when you think of live animals like cows or geese.

I would suspect that the authors were not thinking that "fire" was going to be a holy symbol.
Or "circles" or "moonlight" or a lot of other things that can get iffy.

I know its a judgement call...
...but for me, I plan to use Ankhs and Crosses in my game, as well as anything else that has either been ritually blessed/consecrated by a priest or is being wielded by an actual true believer.

Thus if you want to be able to hide behind the holy power of fire you can... but you will need to be an active worshiper of the Zoroastrians or have a holy torch blessed by one of their priests to do it.
And if you are a worshiper of the Zoroastrians, then you can't hide behind a Warhammer. Or a sword. Or a Circle. Or a...

[dreicunan]

As many items that are considered holy symbols in rifts, would a I wonder would a greater run weapon in the likeness of Mjolnir count when used in combat with a being that is effected as such?

If it was being wielded by someone to whom it was a holy symbol? Maybe.
What is a "holy symbol" in palladium though is in and of itself sort of vague. Especially since if you used everything that was a symbol of any religion ever... then pretty much anything is a holy symbol.

Crosses and Ankhs both get called out as holy symbols. I am not to sure about what else would or would not count.

That is an issue. Most games that decide to include holy symbols against vampires and decide to be PC about what counts as holy require that it be wielded by someone who actually has belief in the religion, locating the power of the symbol not in the symbol itself but in the faith of the wielder. Palladium (VKr p. 73) says that the cross is especially abhorrent but makes it clear that the power of the symbol work regardless of the faith of the person wielding it. Active doubting of it or being completely unaware of it wouldn't stop a symbol from being effective. So if Mjolnir is a holy symbol, RAW any weapon in its shape works for an atheist so long as it is held (holy symbols not held in ones hand can't harm them).

So forget rune weapons, a nueromace in the shape of Mjolnir may not be able to damage them as a weapon, but you can touch them with it as a holy symbol and do some damage, and have an 85% chance of immobilizing them for a melee round unless they are attacked, and then after being attacked leave them with their bonuses halved. Actually, there would be a good argument for a house rule allowing a Mjolnir-shaped weapon that can also damage vampires normally (silver plated or made of wood) to both do their damage and force a save as a holy symbol (Thor doesn't walk around merely touching it to his foes!).

Which would pretty well rule it out as a holy symbol!
If "things shaped more or less like hammers" are valid holy symbols, then that is a pretty big weakness.
And that's just one god. Drawing up a list of gods and their one handed holy symbols would be enormous. But off hand it would make virtually every melee weapon in existance a holy symbol that works for anyone... and as that is probably NOT the intent of the game... I would assume that they won't work that way.

Just a partial list of some symbols from the Greeks...
Scepters, Spears, Bows, Arrows, Circles, Armor, Helmets, Wheels, Snakes, Mirrors, Grapes, Pomogranets, The Sun, The Moon, Lighning bolts, Horses, Cows, Feathers, Fire, Keys, and several musical instruments....

The best part would be vampires picking any of those things up and repelling other vampires since the only requirement is that the item be held!

I'm pretty sure that we house-ruled it to be only the shape of the cross that always worked against them regardless of belief and then had all other holy symbols only work if held by an adherent of that faith for precisely this reason.

[Hawk258]

Funny 2 sticks in a general cross shape work. (Not shadow though can still get a reaction)

A stone with Mayan symbols work (as per VKr) funny how that works.

And you don't have to believe or understand mayan religion.

Page 73 VKr
Page 163 for mayan luck stone

[eliakon]

Funny 2 sticks in a general cross shape work. (Not shadow though can still get a reaction)

Correct, Crosses and Ankhs always work yes.

A stone with Mayan symbols work (as per VKr) funny how that works.

And you don't have to believe or understand mayan religion.

Page 73 VKr
Page 163 for mayan luck stone

A specific magic item works, not just any luck stone.
Which would seem to support that just because it is 'lucky' or 'holy' doesnt mean it will always work.
Because these are enchanted.

[Blue_Lion]

Funny 2 sticks in a general cross shape work. (Not shadow though can still get a reaction)

A stone with Mayan symbols work (as per VKr) funny how that works.

And you don't have to believe or understand mayan religion.

Page 73 VKr
Page 163 for mayan luck stone

Meta-physics is more about what something represents than what it is. The rules are often based in belief build without a scientific understanding of the world.

[Hawk258]

Funny 2 sticks in a general cross shape work. (Not shadow though can still get a reaction)

A stone with Mayan symbols work (as per VKr) funny how that works.

And you don't have to believe or understand mayan religion.

Page 73 VKr
Page 163 for mayan luck stone

Meta-physics is more about what something represents than what it is. The rules are often based in belief build without a scientific understanding of the world.

I agree. I was just stating how those metaphysical representations don't stop at the cross.

Because there is actually a "in game logic" to the 2 sticks working.

You actually have several different elements in play

Elemental
Religious (cross and druidism)

But you get the point.

[Curbludgeon]

A couple of years ago in a game I used Peter Watts' take on vampires from his novel Blindsight. As a side effect of being late-Pleistocene predators with brains focused on pattern recognition and parallel processing, they developed what the novel terms the "Crucifix Glitch", resulting in:

"a cross-wiring of normally-distinct receptor arrays in the visual cortex, resulting in grand mal-like feedback seizures whenever the arrays processing vertical and horizontal stimuli fired simultaneously across a sufficiently large arc of the visual field. Since intersecting right angles are virtually nonexistent in nature, natural selection did not weed out the Glitch until H. sapiens sapiens developed Euclidean architecture; by then, the trait had become fixed across H. sapiens vampiris via genetic drift, and – suddenly denied access to its prey – the entire subspecies went extinct shortly after the dawn of recorded history."

The vampire in the novel gets around this with a combination of 'anti-Euclidean' drugs and a special visor.

Rifts being a kitchen sink, things like faith are described as repelling vampires, when focused through holy symbols. Using something akin to the above allowed crosses to be effective barriers for different reasons, and allowed me to limit interacting with what remnants of Xtianity were extant.

Edit: As an aside, I recommend the book, it's freely available via a Creative Commons license at the below link, and I think the author's choice in site name is a fun bit of serendipity.

https://rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm

[Thalia]

I'm a Designer in an online company that offers cooling dog pets (Aside from keeping your pet cool, these cool pet beds for your pet are also great for soothing sore joints. In addition, a cool dog bed can provide many therapeutic benefits for several skin conditions and can even help in treating a variety of ailments). I think it depends on the user and the creator

Warning: Advertising. Mack